HiTS Pat Rogers Memorial Revolver Round Up
This was the 4th annual revolver round at HiTS in Dallas Tx. This year was dedicated to snubbies (ROSCOES) only and the gear to carry and reload. This was more a thinking class than shooting class but I did burn up 450 rounds of 148gr wadcuters and 158 gr FMJ. Did I mention my hand hurts.

My gear was 640 PRO, 3 340PD's, 2 642's. 640 started out in a Milt Sparks SS RH AIWB. A 340 in a LH of the same thing. The 2 other 340 in R & L Aholster pocket rigs. The 2 642 in Desantis Apache ankle rigs where they have been for 25 years.

TD1 started in the very nice Carrollton PD classroom that HiTS uses. Instructors were Daryl Bolke and Wayne Dobbs with Hardwired Tactical. Chuck Haggard with Agile Training and Mark Fricke with American Training and Tactics.

Wayne started it with his wonderful safety brief, which ain't brief. I have heard this safety talk at least 6 times and always pick up something different each time. It is an in depth look INTO the 4 safety rules that are not just for the range but for life with guns. Started at about 8am and we went to the range at 1030. We had 19 shooters. Wayne worked on marksmanship and trigger manipulation. Rolling the trigger he said is like paddling a canoe, smooth from front to back and back to front. We then did drills working on developing these skills. Daryl took over after lunch at about 1. He said this is a weekend to get to know your gear and to test how to carry and deploy it. Each instructor had similar and very different ideas based on the personal experience. NON of them said this is THE way just A way. My favorite drill that Daryl had us do was walk from the 10yd line to the 3yd line. Some where between the 5 & 3 we were given a range command.

threat- response should be a VERBAL challenge .
gun/knife- response, draw to ready from your chosen carry position with verbal challenge. Ready is situational not a specific spot. On the skreet we would not engage everyone we saw with a gun or knife with gunfire would we?
Fire- response- shot the threat to STOP them from doing what you don't want them to do.


Frequently we would get all three commands. More than once I drew on Threat. Not right, working on fixing that.

At 330 Chuck brought out his ballistic gelatin and shot most everyone's carry load thru jframe and a 2in k frame. Some did what they were supposed to do some did not. Silvertip in 357 worked just right. 16in of penetration and expanded right. My carry load is Buffalo Bore hard cast 150gr wadcutter. Chuck had warned me it was TOO hot and hard surenuf it penetrated 28in of gel and denim. It did go straight. Some rounds came out the side of the gel after only 6-8 of penetration.

At 5 we broke for supper which was catered BAR B QUE. A Texas bar b q wearing guns, don't get no better than that!!

After thoughts from TD1...........All of HiTS drills are done on an IDPA target with a B8 bullseye stapled in the high center. The black bull is 5.5in diameter and our goal was to keep all shots in the black. The black bull is the size of the thoracic cavity that is optimal to shutting down the threat, and goes for the head too. I did all my shooting on TD1 with my dominant hand only. I had 2 objectives.......1- develop that skill more. 2- shooting the air weights HURTS less 1 handed than clamping down hard with 2 hands.

TD2 Started at 8am in the class room and was turned over to Chuck Haggard. He's chalk talk was " let's go to the range, bring your gear!" Chuck talked about gripping the gun stronger with your dominate hand by curling your little finger tighter which releases the trigger finger to smoothly roll the trigger. With your off hand clamp down much harder. Wayne would say like holding the head of a poisonous snake. Chuck recommended 2 grips.... 1- for full framed guns with off hand thumb clamped down on dominate hand thumb. With most of the clamping power coming from the off hand it relaxes the trigger finger to roll the trigger smoother, enhanced by the dominate little finger curled hard. 2- for j frames and similar size put your non dominant thumb on top of the web of dominant thumb and trigger finger. Chuck said it worked for him and Demi god Jerry Miculek. He then showed some carry gear by Dark Star Gear and others. Chucks slow strip set up is 2-skip 2 then 2 in a 6 round strip.

A drill Chuck had us do was a revolver box drill. On the fire signal roadhouse rules applied, everybody got 1 before anyone got seconds. We engaged our threat with 1 to high center then transitioned to the threat to your left for same then 1 to each head then on his call 1 more to the head he called. TD1 I used slow strips only for reloading TD2 I used my reloads that were wrapped in another j frame. I simply dropped the empty on a pair of rubber mats and shot up targets and drew another. Man that is SO much faster and smoother than reloading an empty. Another technique I tried was simply bringing the empty in to my chest, with muzzle pointed down range at a 45% angle then drew another. I also discovered that 1 of my 340PD's had a clocked barrel to 11 o'clock (THANK YOU MARK FRICKE). It will be on it's way to S&W this week. Chuck kept us working inside the 5 yard line until we broke for lunch at 1130.

Back in the classroom at 1245 for Mark Fricke's presentation. Mark talked about playing the WHAT IF game and developing plans . As Mark is talking about this he starts pulling guns from concealment. He was carrying 15 Roscoes which non were visible at the start. When we went back to the range Mark talked about his slow strip technique for a tactical reload. He loads his strips totally full. With dummy rounds we would pluck 2 load 2 put the strip back in your pocket. This is where my retainer ring set up worked good.

Mark then had us work on our draw from what ever carry position we preferred. We started at 3 yards with a 2 sec pair time from concealment for a pair to high center. Down to 1.75 sec pair, 1.5 sec pair, 1.2 sec pair ( his department's requirement ).

It was tough, thanks to the loan from Chuck of the Dark Star Gear j frame kydex holster I made the pair times and was proud of my high center 5in group. Then we were worked back to 10 yards, 15 yards, 25 yards trying for the same accuracy standard but times got more generous. Steel 3/4 IPSC target came out and we moved to 50 yards, yep that 50. Each shooter could fire 3 rounds from there snub to score hits if you did not go to the back of the line to try again. My turn,1st shot nuttin 2nd shot high right hit. I did not take a third, why argue with success.

We moved back to the 10 yard line to work on smoothly rolling the trigger to the rear shooting as accurately as we could. Great class completed!!

Take aways........

new Dark Star Gear holsters for AIWB. A FULL 1in thinner than my others.
Changed my slow strip set up to 2-empty hole 2-empty hole 1.
Gripping harder with pinkie and whole off hand
I suck at slow strip reloading, so practice
Ankle carry is excellent for concealment but limited in efficient deployment.So seated will be the best place for me to use them.


A huge THANK YOU to Daryl and Wayne at HiTS for hosting this great event.and to Chuck and Mark for traveling to participate making The Pat Rogers Memorial Revolver Round Up a fine success.

CYA Mike

I HOPE I AM THE MAN MY DOGS THINK I AM

Original Post

I think it was a .357 model 60.  We had a great time as always and a ton of learning goes on.  We bring in multiple instructors to give alternate views so students can get both confirming and differing ideas and TTP’s to make their decisions on what fits their life better researched.  

There is always a lot of Pat Rogers infused in the weekend.  Next year we got a commitment from Dave Dolan to teach.  Dave is a VERY experienced recently retired LAPD Lt. With extensive undercover experience and spent many years in the firearms unit as well.  Dave was in class this year.  Another benefit is for folks to get exposed to exceptional instructors that have aren’t mainstream or have a YouTube channel but are full of great knowledge.  

B03C3E37-7917-45B6-A2A5-345315051B95C0F28CCC-178B-4A4C-8E3B-96DEAEEC2006

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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I attended last year, couldn't make it this year, plan to do it again.  My class was a superb learning experience.  After that class, I passed on my 4" RB 586 to my son and replaced it with one of the performance center models, just because I like them.  And for the snubbies, I took the lesson of steel framed guns for training and extensive shooting and found a good used 640 PRO, which I'm taking to the range today.  Still working on better holsters.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Star of the ballistics show....Bowen .44 Spl S&W 296 shooting 200 grain gold dot.DB9D1C9D-F4F3-4C0E-A9B7-E47D3722350D8C753ED7-963A-4877-995A-FF65A212DF9C47A267F8-17E9-41AB-B598-95D4387B507D67F45A7F-EC47-4C83-86BC-184D17133BCD

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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MIKE PIPES posted:

C WALLEY, I'm not sure what gun. Maybe Chuck or Wayne or Daryl could say. I do know it was a 2in........CYA Mike

Thank you Mike.  The .357 145 gr. ST is my preferred load in that caliber, but you just don't hear much info on recent gel tests.  Good to hear it's still puttering along

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