HK Goodness

Been gone from work since last week and came in yesterday to find this in our arms room.  Seems the SWATs found some stuff in the back of a safe and turned it in

 

Joined 12/2/02          Location: Puyallup, WA

 

"malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

Thomas Jefferson 1787

Original Post

Some folks would have a heart attack at the way that stuff is just tossed here and there like it was a red headed step kid. It could get scratched you know...

What is your agency going to do with it? Are they going to trade it or sell interagency?

Pretty sure it will all be sold/traded to an appropriate dealer once the Fed paperwork is sorted out.  

Joined 12/2/02          Location: Puyallup, WA

 

"malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

Thomas Jefferson 1787

Jesus H. Christ on the cross.  So much goodness.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Do you need help testing them? I'm free on Friday morning.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Longeye posted:

Some folks would have a heart attack at the way that stuff is just tossed here and there like it was a red headed step kid. It could get scratched you know...

 

That would be me.  Each should be wrapped in the finest Chinese silk and placed upright on a rack made of Carrera marble.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Consigliere posted:
Longeye posted:

Some folks would have a heart attack at the way that stuff is just tossed here and there like it was a red headed step kid. It could get scratched you know...

 

That would be me.  Each should be wrapped in the finest Chinese silk and placed upright on a rack made of Carrera marble.

I was thinking more like an silk and velvet lined recess cut and fitted highly polished Ebony or Mahogany drawer trimmed in either Rosewood or Birdseye Maple, but I like your train of thought..

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

David Reeves posted:
Consigliere posted:
Longeye posted:

Some folks would have a heart attack at the way that stuff is just tossed here and there like it was a red headed step kid. It could get scratched you know...

 

That would be me.  Each should be wrapped in the finest Chinese silk and placed upright on a rack made of Carrera marble.

I was thinking more like an silk and velvet lined recess cut and fitted highly polished Ebony or Mahogany drawer trimmed in either Rosewood or Birdseye Maple, but I like your train of thought..

I was thinking hanging by a sling off the corner post of my bed.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

dan187 posted:
David Reeves posted:
Consigliere posted:
Longeye posted:

Some folks would have a heart attack at the way that stuff is just tossed here and there like it was a red headed step kid. It could get scratched you know...

 

That would be me.  Each should be wrapped in the finest Chinese silk and placed upright on a rack made of Carrera marble.

I was thinking more like an silk and velvet lined recess cut and fitted highly polished Ebony or Mahogany drawer trimmed in either Rosewood or Birdseye Maple, but I like your train of thought..

I was thinking hanging by a sling off the corner post of my bed.

I will give you credit.  You are INCREDIBLY consistent.  Predictable.  But consistent.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Consigliere posted:
Longeye posted:

Some folks would have a heart attack at the way that stuff is just tossed here and there like it was a red headed step kid. It could get scratched you know...

 

That would be me.  Each should be wrapped in the finest Chinese silk and placed upright on a rack made of Carrera marble.

You weren't the type I was thinking of. More the Fudd who had just purchased his first Delton AR.

You I think of as posting pictures of these rifles on the range next to a cigar and a pizza, which you ordered using the ballistic computer on your KAC rifle sitting next to the HK thing.

You should hire CONSIG as a consultant to help you with that stuff.

 

___________________________________________________________________

I'm either dead right, or horribly wrong. Either way the results should be entertaining.

 

"Shoot the MOTHERF$%^ER until he changes shape or catches fire"  the PAT ROGERS

Thought I'd take a better family portrait.  When laying these out, I realized that one of the fixed stock MP5's and Benelli used to be mine  

I may have to run one of the 5's to make sure it works before we send them off.  

Joined 12/2/02          Location: Puyallup, WA

 

"malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

Thomas Jefferson 1787

Today, I "needed" to run through some of our courses for next year's lesson plan and was just going to use one of our patrol carbines. Then I said to myself, "hey self, why not use one of the MP's, maybe the one that you had been issued back in 1996!"

I hadn't shot an HK since I left the team in 2005 and had really forgotten just how easy they are to shoot.  With a gun I hadn't shot in a dozen years or that was zero'd, it was very easy to put rounds into the 10 ring at 50 yards.  After using it to shoot the courses, I loaded a couple mags and turned the gun to the "fun" setting.  Easy to shoot singles, doubles, etc. all on full auto.  Oh, and full auto for a mag is fun too.

Doing my best tacticool Zoolander after shooting.

 

Joined 12/2/02          Location: Puyallup, WA

 

"malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

Thomas Jefferson 1787

No MP5-SD. Still very cool. 

"Be an example to your men, in your duty and in private life. Never spare yourself, and let the troops see that you don't in your endurance of fatigue and privation. Always be tactful and well-mannered and teach your subordinates to do the same. Avoid excessive sharpness or harshness of voice, which usually indicates the man who has shortcomings of his own to hide." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

 

Joined: 12/24/04    LOCATION : Moments away from BFG and DD

At least you're going to trade yours in. We crush ours. I did rescue a couple MP5A2s, MP5K, M16A2 carbines, MG42 and a Beretta PM12 from the crusher several years ago. One of our squads had them, and a ton more, signed out as props. When the squad was disbanded my sergeant and I had to turn them all in. I convinced him to retain some for "familiarization." 

------------

"One of the nice things about being around other soldiers is they will suffer your bullshit gladly, knowing sooner or later you will shut up and listen to theirs." - Jim Morris, War Story

 

"The military was strange like that. In the middle of the night you run into a major problem that requires you to put your faith in someone you never met before and probably would never see again. But that person knocks himself out to do his job and helps you get on with yours." - Harold W. Coyle, Team Yankee

My chosen play toy of the day.  My group size at 100 sucked, but I was happy considering I've never shot this before.  Pretty sure we've had this since the late 1980's and it was in use by one of our snipers into the mid-90's.  I'm also pretty sure it was used on at least one bad guy.  

Who says size doesn't matter!

Joined 12/2/02          Location: Puyallup, WA

 

"malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

Thomas Jefferson 1787

Rich275 posted:

My chosen play toy of the day.  My group size at 100 sucked, but I was happy considering I've never shot this before.  Pretty sure we've had this since the late 1980's and it was in use by one of our snipers into the mid-90's.  I'm also pretty sure it was used on at least one bad guy. 

...snip...

 

How stable is that stock?

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

The stock was very stable, no play at all although maybe it was rusted in place. The grip/lower had a little play though.  

Joined 12/2/02          Location: Puyallup, WA

 

"malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

Thomas Jefferson 1787

A contributor to your 100 yard dissatisfaction, perhaps?

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Rich275 posted:

My chosen play toy of the day.  My group size at 100 sucked, but I was happy considering I've never shot this before.  Pretty sure we've had this since the late 1980's and it was in use by one of our snipers into the mid-90's.  I'm also pretty sure it was used on at least one bad guy.  

 

 

 

I had a very nervous, shaking and sweaty Turkish soldier point one at my face and cock it while screaming, "dur!, dur! dur!..." as I tried to enter an alley in Nicosia, Cyprus in 1988.  We had an agreement  to inspect the alley and the officer never showed.  Looking into the muzzle from about 12 inches...it sure looked big....like a 10 ga....

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

How was the recoil? People seem to complain a lot about G3 recoil.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

dan187 posted:

How was the recoil? People seem to complain a lot about G3 recoil.

For good reason.  The recoil impulse is quite sharp/violent.

"Be a man of principle. Fight for what you believe in. Keep your word. Live with integrity. Be brave. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Serve your country. Teach. Mentor. Give something back to society.  Lead from the front. Conquer your fears. Be a good friend. Appreciate your friends and family. Be a leader and not a follower. Be valorous on the field of battle. And take responsibility for your actions."
Major Douglas A. Zembiec, USMC

So far back in history, that you could buy an H&K 91 at the Pomona, CA State Fair Grounds gun show I did.  With the HK collapsing stock. It was rock solid, but you got very direct feed back on each trigger pull.  I found a real H&K fixed stock and it was easier to handle. Plus you could, even in the late 80's make a bundle off selling the collapsing stock. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

“Speak softly and carry a big stick;  you will go far. “

 Theodore Roosevelt

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Joined: 29 May 2008          Location: AZ

I have a G3A3 that while not brutal, it is not the most pleasant rifle to spend a couple solid days shooting. I made the mistake several years back of building a parts kit upper for this and used a chambered compensator... basically turned it into a magazine fed flashbang. Miserable to shoot (overpressure / muzzle blast) and down right nasty/brutal to anyone immediately left or right on the line.

I also have an HK91 that is full length with the full stock that is as easy to shoot for prolonged periods as any full size AR platform.

I also have an HK91 knockoff (Late 80s Century Arms) with the PSG1 stock that I can wear out my wallet long before I wear out my shoulder.

With the 7.62 HK platform rifles weight/mass makes a major impact on felt recoil.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

I had a pre-ban HK91 for years that was purchased, probably unfired, from an estate sale. It came with the collapsible and a whole box full of HK accessories. I swapped on a used full size stock and shot the heck out of it. Lots of military surplus ammo shuffled through that thing, and the recoil was managable, given the size and heft of the rifle. Like many others I sold or traded, I probably should have kept it. 

 

 

Joined: 04 May 2003         Location: Western South Dakistan

 

 

 

For a long time post college, before everyone went their separate ways, I had close friends with an HK91, an M1A, and I had a FAL. The HK in proper factory configuration with the full stock was far and away the strongest recoiling, and was close to unusable with the telefolder. We added a Buffertech* to it and while noticable, it was not as calm as either of the other .308s.

I've also shot some armalite-pattern 308s, and they vary widely. The OBR was the nicest of these, and is just a dream, but some others are... not.

Back to HKs, I have a 33 (okay, a CA93, but accessorized as much as possible to be in original Malaysian configuration) and it is as calm and smooth shooting as any 5.56 gun I've shot. Everyone who tries it loves it the same, such that several have bought their own as a result. A guy with a (registered!) auto-sear at a picnic shoot once, pulled it from his MP5, stuck it in my 33, and we found it was notably more controllable than a similar size/weight AR-15. I'd love to get some time on an original HK53; I think I see the point of those, entirely. 

I say it's proof that the design was all set up for the abbreviated cartridges, and they rushed/stretched to work with full power .308, which never quite was right.  

 

* I (lightly) personally knew Larry, and love all his buffer products. I always thought a buffer was an especially sensible thing in the HKs because the original original design had an elastomeric buffer, which simply didn't work due to lack of suitable materials in the early 50s so fell apart rapidly. The spring buffer in the G3 is a rapid stopgap after the first few CETMEs were made, never really improved upon.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:

For a long time post college, before everyone went their separate ways, I had close friends with an HK91, an M1A, and I had a FAL. The HK in proper factory configuration with the full stock was far and away the strongest recoiling, and was close to unusable with the telefolder. We added a Buffertech* to it and while noticable, it was not as calm as either of the other .308s.

I've also shot some armalite-pattern 308s, and they vary widely. The OBR was the nicest of these, and is just a dream, but some others are... not.

Back to HKs, I have a 33 (okay, a CA93, but accessorized as much as possible to be in original Malaysian configuration) and it is as calm and smooth shooting as any 5.56 gun I've shot. Everyone who tries it loves it the same, such that several have bought their own as a result. A guy with a (registered!) auto-sear at a picnic shoot once, pulled it from his MP5, stuck it in my 33, and we found it was notably more controllable than a similar size/weight AR-15. I'd love to get some time on an original HK53; I think I see the point of those, entirely. 

I say it's proof that the design was all set up for the abbreviated cartridges, and they rushed/stretched to work with full power .308, which never quite was right.  

  • I do not think so as the G3 was made before  the 5.56 43/33 series.  They did not rush or stretch the .308 version.  They reduced it to 7.62x 39, 5.56 And 9mm..  It may have a bit of recoil but the G3/HK91 might be the most reliable battle rifle ever made.
  • And a CA93  is as much a HK33 as Hillary Clinton is to The Kate.  Same basic elements but which one to you want to be seen with?

* I (lightly) personally knew Larry, and love all his buffer products. I always thought a buffer was an especially sensible thing in the HKs because the original original design had an elastomeric buffer, which simply didn't work due to lack of suitable materials in the early 50s so fell apart rapidly. The spring buffer in the G3 is a rapid stopgap after the first few CETMEs were made, never really improved upon.

                      HK  has made great advances in their buffers.  There are  numerous heavy buffers that are used in G3s and other 90 series sniper rifles that do quite a bit in controlling recoil.  Once upon a time I tried a Buffertech and my full auto G3 beat the shit out of it.  The heavy buffers last and last.

 

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Lol.... he used Hildabeast and The Kate in cogent sentence... it must be a full moon in one of the alternate universes...

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

Didn't mean to imply the 5.56 was first. Just that they spent over a decade post-war developing and optimizing for a series of abbreviated cartridges, then in a fairly short time (2 years?) modified to work for the full length, and full power 7.62x51. 

Yes, the G3 works, but we can still argue if it works as well as it could, as the recoil seems pretty sharp compared to even other 7.62 guns. I am also not sure we have a solid measure of "most reliable" and try to stay out of G3/FAL arguments there. Certainly have met e.g. Iranians who finally escaped the current regime, but first had to spend a few years shooting at Iraqis back in the 80s, and were not overly impressed with how the G3 handled itself there, even when cleaned daily. 

Never seen more advanced HK buffers than different spring rates (knew they had a couple, e.g. for the MGs) but haven't paid attention in c. 15 years. Interesting, good to see they did keep working on it instead of letting it ride. 

The only Buffertech that ever went south on me was a prototype S&W 59xx one I just left in there; it got worn and went askew during re-assembly about a year before the extractor broke (after I had the gun >10 years), so it hung right in there. 

 

I won't bother starting a discussion of whether a well-assembled parts kit is in principle any good, but we have threads about things like HK94s and AKs here that are mostly US assembled parts kits and no one seems to mind there. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

The PTR91 seem to be a well received clone of the G3/HK91, for those looking to get into a reasonably priced HKish weapon system.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Consigliere posted:
shoobe01 posted:

For a long time post college, before everyone went their separate ways, I had close friends with an HK91, an M1A, and I had a FAL. The HK in proper factory configuration with the full stock was far and away the strongest recoiling, and was close to unusable with the telefolder. We added a Buffertech* to it and while noticable, it was not as calm as either of the other .308s.

I've also shot some armalite-pattern 308s, and they vary widely. The OBR was the nicest of these, and is just a dream, but some others are... not.

Back to HKs, I have a 33 (okay, a CA93, but accessorized as much as possible to be in original Malaysian configuration) and it is as calm and smooth shooting as any 5.56 gun I've shot. Everyone who tries it loves it the same, such that several have bought their own as a result. A guy with a (registered!) auto-sear at a picnic shoot once, pulled it from his MP5, stuck it in my 33, and we found it was notably more controllable than a similar size/weight AR-15. I'd love to get some time on an original HK53; I think I see the point of those, entirely. 

I say it's proof that the design was all set up for the abbreviated cartridges, and they rushed/stretched to work with full power .308, which never quite was right.  

  • I do not think so as the G3 was made before  the 5.56 43/33 series.  They did not rush or stretch the .308 version.  They reduced it to 7.62x 39, 5.56 And 9mm..  It may have a bit of recoil but the G3/HK91 might be the most reliable battle rifle ever made.
  • And a CA93  is as much a HK33 as Hillary Clinton is to The Kate.  Same basic elements but which one to you want to be seen with?

* I (lightly) personally knew Larry, and love all his buffer products. I always thought a buffer was an especially sensible thing in the HKs because the original original design had an elastomeric buffer, which simply didn't work due to lack of suitable materials in the early 50s so fell apart rapidly. The spring buffer in the G3 is a rapid stopgap after the first few CETMEs were made, never really improved upon.

                      HK  has made great advances in their buffers.  There are  numerous heavy buffers that are used in G3s and other 90 series sniper rifles that do quite a bit in controlling recoil.  Once upon a time I tried a Buffertech and my full auto G3 beat the shit out of it.  The heavy buffers last and last.

 

First off, I edited the text color in your highlighted comments.  It was EXTREMELY hard to read.  Couple of corrections.  The Cetme wasn't stretched to create the G3, but there was a power/recoil difference.  Originally, it was chambered in 7.62mm Cetme.  While the dimensions were otherwise identical to 7.62 NATO (7.62x51mm), it was loaded with a lighter bullet (113gr v. 147gr) at a lesser velocity (2600 fps v. 2733fps).  However, they very quickly switched to the standard NATO loading.  So essentially, I do agree with you.

I've shot the Cetme, the HK91 and several different FALs.  The Cetme had much lighter recoil than the HK91, which I think was due to the Cetme buffer, which is stock, not a commercial add on.  The HK91 beat me up.  The FAL is still my favorite.

The HK is renowned for its ruggedness.  I think some of that is myth.  On the MP series at least, the extractor spring goes bye-bye at a low round count.  I heard of one issue that seems like it would happen more frequently, but honestly, I've only heard of it once.  The rifle was dropped and landed on it's side on a kind of pointy rock.  It put a small dent in stamped receiver which prevented the bolt from cycling.    I guess it's just the infrequency of dropping the rifle on something just right to dent the receiver. 

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

So it’s agreed.  HK rules.  Thank you gentlemen for your support.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

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