HK Goodness

Yes, the Mauser designed, French improved, Spanish refined, and HK copied design is the superior product.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Consigliere posted:
shoobe01 posted:

 

I do not think so as the G3 was made before  the 5.56 43/33 series.  They did not rush or stretch the .308 version.  They reduced it to 7.62x 39, 5.56 And 9mm..  It may have a bit of recoil but the G3/HK91 might be the most reliable battle rifle ever made.

Were not the original CETME designs in a 7.92 intermediate cartridge?

Mr H und Mr K were both former Mauser employees, so technically they didn't copy anything,  they just "came home".

 

Never cared for the 3, but the 33 and MP5 always made me warm and tingly.  A Turkish made 33 or 5 clone would be nice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

MrMurphy posted:

 

Never cared for the 3, but the 33 and MP5 always made me warm and tingly.  A Turkish made 33 or 5 clone would be nice.

If Zenith (I believe that the Turkish one) Would make a 33 Clone rifle that took regular capacity mags, I would seriously consider it.  If any decent company made reliable HK33 copies that used AR mags, I would be all over it.

Just because I don't want to have to buy a bunch of magazines again. Which is the main reason I find the PTR KFR32  7.62x39mm so interesting, I've got piles of AK magazines.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

dan187 posted:
MrMurphy posted:

 

stuff

If Zenith (I believe that the Turkish one) Would make a 33 Clone rifle that took regular capacity mags, I would seriously consider it.  If any decent company made reliable HK33 copies that used AR mags, I would be all over it...

If I didn't share my story of getting my HK33 mags, make me do that as it's one of very, very few amazing deals I got.

But anyway, I don't want a good HK33 clone, modded to take STANAG 4179 (AR) mags. Because I want a G41. 

Seen one. Seen. Couldn't touch it. RARE here. But the best HK I think they may have made. 

  • Bolt hold open, and release, on the receiver
  • Takes STANAG mags
  • And AR-15 style mag release
  • Ejector port cover
  • (Sadly, forward assist)
  • Different forearm, not sure why

 

Add a version with low profile rails on top (like AK4 reservist upgrade) and of course sell a stupid railed forearm version with a cheap hard case for the tactibros, and you have a good money maker there. 

And the carbine, please: http://soldiersystems.net/2015...est-guns-never-made/

MKEK even made some under contract! Maybe we get them imported sometime, but they should fire that line up again http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...e-hk-g41-rifle-wild/

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Zenith makes a transparent polymer mag for ~$35, which is not the most expensive mag, but not cheap.

If I could have a reasonably priced Delayed Roller Lock in 5.56 that used AR mags I really would be all over it.  The PTR KFR 31 uses standard AK mags and 7.62x39mm is relatively inexpensive, but it is a G3 sized rifle that is modified to use the shorter round. Most all reviews I have found are positive, except the weight. The other thing is, I already AK's that use AK mags and 7.62x39mm and this just adds a new platform to the logistics train with no real added value.

Which leads me back to getting a G3 clone; and that leads me to thinking about the cost of shooting .308 for fun, and that leads me to thinking about a less expensive bolt action rifle, which leads me to looking at the CZ527, which leads me to wondering why I need another rifle in 7.62x39mm.......... It's a viscous cycle that always leaves me going "you don't need another rifle stupid!"

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

shoobe01 posted:
dan187 posted:
MrMurphy posted:

 

stuff

If Zenith (I believe that the Turkish one) Would make a 33 Clone rifle that took regular capacity mags, I would seriously consider it.  If any decent company made reliable HK33 copies that used AR mags, I would be all over it...

But anyway, I don't want a good HK33 clone, modded to take STANAG 4179 (AR) mags. Because I want a G41. 

Seen one. Seen. Couldn't touch it. RARE here. But the best HK I think they may have made. 

Hahahahahaha- shot one: 1xmag on semi, 1x mag on burst.

Nice additions but it still felt like a HK33

Linz posted:
shoobe01 posted:
dan187 posted:
MrMurphy posted:

 

stuff

stuff

[dreamy thoughts of the G41]

Hahahahahaha- shot one: 1xmag on semi, 1x mag on burst.

Nice additions but it felt like a HK33

Should have known someone would have at least shot one. Next: someone who carried one, then someone comes in to say he owns one of the 10 transferrables in the US.  

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:
Linz posted:
shoobe01 posted:
dan187 posted:
MrMurphy posted:

 

stuff

stuff

[dreamy thoughts of the G41]

Hahahahahaha- shot one: 1xmag on semi, 1x mag on burst.

Nice additions but it felt like a HK33

Should have known someone would have at least shot one. Next: someone who carried one, then someone comes in to say he owns one of the 10 transferrables in the US.  

A certain lawyer we all know probably has 2 of them.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

What's the difference between the HK33 and the HK53?

I ask this because a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I had the opportunity to carry a 53 occasionally.  While in SOCEUR, we would get sent down to the CJSOTF Sarajevo (on Ilizda  compound - COL Bruce Hoover commanding.....yes.....THAT COL Hoover) to support them with Comms.  EUCOM basically saw this as a boondoggle, and we never deployed down with firearms.  The reality was, we occasionally needed them.  When we needed them, we would beg or borrow them from whoever would let one go (not as easy as it sounds, people don't like to readily give up their weapons if they don't have to). 

The exception to this was a Danish SF CPT (this is as I remember it, I'm not ENTIRELY positive he was Danish, but I DO know he was a European/NATO Officer supporting the CJSOTF), who was the J3/OPS officer for the CJSOTF.  He had deployed down with a 53 and was willing to let it be borrowed on occasion.  So we (the other radio operator and I) were taken out (on the back side of Mount Igman, at one of the old Olympic housing buildings that was used as an all around range for a lot of different things) and allowed to put some magazines through it (to "qualify") and allowed to carry it.  The only thing "sexy" that he had, was a Magazine clamp.  So at ALL times, we carried at least 60 rounds with it.  It was a beautiful firing weapon, probably due in large part to the weight of it.  

Side note - I probably learned more at that "range" (during multiple trips up there) than I had at all the other ranges I had been to in my career.  I ended up shooting just about any US bullet launching weapon that was being carried at the time up there (from MP5 variants to the current sniper rifles) .  It was where I learned the whole idea of transitioning to a secondary weapon, and why the Eagle drop leg holsters were so popular.  It didn't hurt that most of the time, I was going up there with guys out of 1/10 that had more training than the average bear.

One of the things I figured out, carrying this beautiful piece of German hardware, was that smaller weapons worked MUCH better in and out of civilian vehicles.  It was a standard collapsible HK stock, with what seemed to be a fairly short barrel (for what I was used to seeing), so it was a breeze to get in and out of the SUVs we were running around in.  Usually it was only carried to meet the "One long gun per vehicle" requirement, but when it was required, it was nice to have something so compact.  Having said that, it was a HEAVY beast.

The funniest part of carrying that particular piece of German hardware was the looks I would get from American Soldiers.  I had a Sergeant Major almost lose his mind when he spotted it (up in Tuzla at Eagle Main).   The fact that we ran around in "sterile" uniforms, with only name tapes and rank, didn't help matters.  

Yes, I get long winded talking about Bosnia/Sarajevo.  While it wasn't the shooting war of Iraqi Freedom, it WAS the "Wild West" in a lot of respects.  It was, without a doubt, the most fun I had in the Military.  A lot of what I learned there was directly applied to what we did in OIF I and the train up for it.  I first flew into Sarajevo in 93, under the Provide Promise banner; the last time I was there was in 99, helping BG Bargewell transition from COMSOCEUR to HQ SFOR J3 Operations (on camp Butmir).  

There are definitely times when I miss the Army.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

53 has a much shorter barrel. MP5 handguard on that, vs G3k length handguard on the HK33. 

I am sure timing changes inside etc to make it not kill you also. 

ETA: Looked it up to jog my memory. Bolt carriers all different:

HK roller locks get their recoil mass from a rod/tube (varies) hanging off the upper/front of the bolt, extending into the charging handle tube. Short guns cannot have much there so the bolt has to be shorter. Which reduces weight. Which changes speed, so they have different buffers, I hear, integral with the BC (instead of?) in the stock. 

As far as size: 

HK33 - G3K-sized forearm.

HK33K - Same forearm, just no barrel sticking out. 

53 and MP5 together

Flash hider not required (AFAIK, not needed to cycle gun, etc) but apparently a Very Good Idea for flash, blast. 

 

Slight improvement to my memory: same length of forearm interface, but the extra cartridge length means more receiver so there is a gap if you use an MP5 forearm as shown below, but it does fit

Anyway, a 53 with short flash hider is basically an MP5 with a long flash hider in 5.56. Maybe 2" longer, but a HELL of a short gun for a rifle, especially back when we carried only 20" M16s. You can see why UK close protection (and a few others like your euro-friend) liked them back when they mostly had shit like FALs as their default longarm. That's hard to get out of the front seat of a car. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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Oh for the days when I could go to the armoury and draw my tool bag containing an HK53, HK MP5K, HP and Walther P5 and various pyro.

Bosnia? Bastards made me carry an SA80. 

--------------------------------------

 

If you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together    -    African proverb

 

Joined: 2003          Location: At home pretending to be retired (again).

Gotcha.....it was very much like carrying an MP5 in 5.56 (size/ease of carry).  If I could have ONE HK weapon today, it would probably be a 53 or 53 clone.  Definitely an awesome little blaster.  It would be a toy for me, as I still see the AR/M4 weapons as being the best for Home defense etc....but a really cool toy none the less.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

dan187 posted:
shoobe01 posted:
Linz posted:
shoobe01 posted:
dan187 posted:
MrMurphy posted:

 

stuff

stuff

[dreamy thoughts of the G41]

Hahahahahaha- shot one: 1xmag on semi, 1x mag on burst.

Nice additions but it felt like a HK33

Should have known someone would have at least shot one. Next: someone who carried one, then someone comes in to say he owns one of the 10 transferrables in the US.  

A certain lawyer we all know probably has 2 of them.

I can neither confirm nor deny that information.  However, because I like you, I would lean toward confirm.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Well this is a start at least...

https://zenithfirearms.com/pro.../zenith-z-43p-rifle/

Zenith is making a 5.56 Rifle now, too bad it doesn’t use a classic handguard and stock.

______________________________________________________

 

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." - R. Heinlen

 

Joined:  1/30/05           Location: Graham, Wa

Looks like it's standard pins, so you dump the stocks if hated. Also, the rail looks to be clamped on the normal HK nubs so also options. Means it may be the best "improved" classic consumer rifle ever imported. 

Pricey. Hope street is much lower. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Consigliere posted:
dan187 posted:
shoobe01 posted:
Linz posted:
shoobe01 posted:
dan187 posted:
MrMurphy posted:

 

stuff

stuff

[dreamy thoughts of the G41]

Hahahahahaha- shot one: 1xmag on semi, 1x mag on burst.

Nice additions but it felt like a HK33

Should have known someone would have at least shot one. Next: someone who carried one, then someone comes in to say he owns one of the 10 transferrables in the US.  

A certain lawyer we all know probably has 2 of them.

I can neither confirm nor deny that information.  However, because I like you, I would lean toward confirm.

Always wondered...when you prosecute crims who employed HK products to commit their nefarious deeds...do you go light on them because of their obvious style and taste...or do you go harder for staining the brand?

Carried a select fire G3 back in the late 80's, that I issued myself out of our vast store of toys, that included Steyr SSG69, G3, Uzi, SAM 7, RPG 7, AK, AKM, AKMS, suppressed Beretta 89, and a bunch of other stuff.

Try a full auto mag dump through one, and it starts get sluggish around 6 to 8 mags, and by 8 to 10 mags, it becomes a single shot, straight pull rifle.

Recoil wasn't that bad, but I guess when you were putting 1000 rounds or so a week through one, you kind of got used to it.

I know I used to have fun shooting white painted 1/2" dowling rods at various distances up to 100 meters, and once you had it dialed in, you could cut them in half pretty consistantly.

Regards.

Mark

Formerly known as ML

What's the RDS on that launcher? And it doesn't look it from here, but does the base tilt for range or what? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Need a ruling from the judges. Does the coolness of the GL outweigh the cheap RDS? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

XTCBX posted:

It’s an S&S mount (no elevation adjustment) the RDS is some Bushnell AP Mini knockoff...

I thought it looked like the Bushnell TRS-25. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

shoobe01 posted:

Need a ruling from the judges. Does the coolness of the GL outweigh the cheap RDS? 

I vote: Yes. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

M. Wilson posted:

Will the CS rounds cycle a Mk-19?

No... rounds for shoulder fired GL are different than MK19.

They wouldnt has the "recoil ass" to cycle a MK19...if you could get them to feed and chamber..

On the other side of the coin...

You really would not enjoy that even if the breech / barrel managed to somehow not self destruct IF you could actually chamber a MK19 round. 

Think 338 lapua mag in a 8" long zip gun.. and you MIGHT get close to the recoil impulse.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

Sitting here the other day contemplating a set up for the Hogpocalypse.   Another member interested in purchasing a HK91 wanted some pics so I had the chance to place it side by side with my 6.8SPC LWRC.  I have to admit the size and weight difference were minimal.  And rails are now available for the HK for a light mount.  Ya never know.😎

20181127_01155520181127_18195020181127_18221020181127_18185920181127_181906

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

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David Reeves posted:
M. Wilson posted:

Will the CS rounds cycle a Mk-19?

No... rounds for shoulder fired GL are different than MK19.

They wouldnt has the "recoil ass" to cycle a MK19...if you could get them to feed and chamber..

On the other side of the coin...

You really would not enjoy that even if the breech / barrel managed to somehow not self destruct IF you could actually chamber a MK19 round. 

Think 338 lapua mag in a 8" long zip gun.. and you MIGHT get close to the recoil impulse.

I was thinking it would be heat to just carpet bomb a  larger group with beltfed automatic 40mm CS rounds from futher away than the low PSI rounds would let you. You could call it Gandalf because even if they could pick up one or two and Chuck them back at you, there's no way they would be tossing them back and in the time it took to displace one round of CS by hand  you could burn in another 20 or so making a screen of CS so thick no one is getting through it.2BvbQ

Location: in SE Idaho, the birthplace of television. 

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CS2 powder spread on the ground of their approach march would have a similar yet more devious result.

The more the walk/run/shuffle their feet/disturb the ground the more it gets in the air / on skin / on clothes...

Its a great way to spice up a road march for a "rival" battalion... or so I've heard...<cough>.

The upside is that the media doesnt get video of rounds being fired..

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

M. Wilson posted:
David Reeves posted:
M. Wilson posted:

Will the CS rounds cycle a Mk-19?

No... rounds for shoulder fired GL are different than MK19.

They wouldnt has the "recoil ass" to cycle a MK19...if you could get them to feed and chamber..

On the other side of the coin...

You really would not enjoy that even if the breech / barrel managed to somehow not self destruct IF you could actually chamber a MK19 round. 

Think 338 lapua mag in a 8" long zip gun.. and you MIGHT get close to the recoil impulse.

I was thinking it would be heat to just carpet bomb a  larger group with beltfed automatic 40mm CS rounds from futher away than the low PSI rounds would let you. You could call it Gandalf because even if they could pick up one or two and Chuck them back at you, there's no way they would be tossing them back and in the time it took to displace one round of CS by hand  you could burn in another 20 or so making a screen of CS so thick no one is getting through it.2BvbQ

Just to pick a little nit, and once again to prove my LOTR geekiness I do not believe Olorin (Gandalf) had both his staff and Glamdring his sword in hand on the bridge of Khazad Dum  when he placed the spell to stop the Balrog. He had just his staff IIRC.

Geek mode and derailff 

 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Cytez posted:

you're NOT as big of a LOTR geek as you THINK:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZZNHekEQw

Thank you. I guess I’m not. I always picture that scene in my head from the distant shots where the sword is either very difficult to see or not visible. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

David Reeves posted:

You have read the books, right?

They're so much better than the movies.....

I first read the books at 10 years of age, 45 years ago. Probably have read them at least a dozen times. The Silmarillion and the Unfinished Tales several times each. 

Always discover things you didn’t catch in the previous reads. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

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