Okay, background. I have traditionally not shot off barricades much. Take the opinion (and some training) that you maneuver to get the best shot, so it hasn't really come up formally to me. Barricade work has been concealment, cover, and short range shots. 

So, for precision rifle, I can do 100 yard shots all day from anything (marginal at unsupported, but I could work on it), and otherwise do bipod or pack or so on. And do well at it. 

But at least for gaming— and maybe it's a useful skill anyway — how do you shoot off barricades for longer ranges, or more precision? I have done poorly at a few carbine matches where barricades are the norm, and I now have access to a bunch at the PRS-oriented range I've joined, but every tutorial or video I've seen makes a lot of assumptions, a lot of "just lookie here, see?!" and doesn't give the basics of it in the way I've been instructed for things like how to employ a bipod.

E.g. loading the bipod is a technique, but until I understood that, or bounce or, recoil management with the rear bag, or ... so on and on, I sorta sucked at bipod use. I assume I am missing some key methods for barricade work, so would love your resources to start me off.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Original Post

For PRS, its all about the bags it seems. Do you have one you are using on the barricades? For carbine stuff on a barricade, Ill use a pool cue type grip on the forend of the rifle, and lean into it if possible.

May not be super helpful, because I'm just getting started myself.

"Here I abandon peace and desecrate law. Farewell to treaties. Fortune it is you I follow... From now on, war will be my judge."

Yup. Trying to avoid being too gamey and packing a giant Game Changer every time, so haven't bought new gear, sticking to my old Redman bunnybag and/or this little square bag I also use on the rear when prone/bipod. For bolt rifle I use that to space the gun off the barricade, but for carbine just get my hand between barricade and gun mostly as who carries a bag all the time?  

Leaning in is a note: I'll try consistently "loading" the gun. 

Pool cue grip? Like... hand between bag and gun (gun is the cue)? I have no opinions/judgment as yet, just asking for clarification. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

So, the pool cue grip is something that would mostly work with a vertical edge like a wall or something. Placing support side palm against the barricade, with the thumb and forefinger wrapping the handguard. Its way more complicated to explain than show. To the point that you may already know this, and I just overcomplicated it.

As far as the bags, PRS is a game, so you may as well play it. I did my first match with a rear bag made of a sock and airsoft bbs in a multicam sleeve made from a uniform top, and a pillow bag made of the leg off a uniform. Used the big bag for filling voids (like between my leg and arm in a kneeling, etc).

Also, the Fortune Cookie bag is kickass. My buddy brought one to a .22 match we did a couple weekends ago. Its useful as a rear or a front bag in a lot of different positions. Its on my list of things to get soon.

 

"Here I abandon peace and desecrate law. Farewell to treaties. Fortune it is you I follow... From now on, war will be my judge."

https://m.youtube(dot)com/watch?v=qLxlIi6nH_E

This vid from Scott Satterlee is a good and conscience explanation of the technique a lot of PRS shooters are using. It will mostly work for a semi auto as well, but you may have to play with shoulder pressure to see what your gun likes best. PRS shooters don’t have to load in the gun at all because their guns weigh around 20 pounds and can be balanced easily in front of the magwell. 

Also, with a semi-auto, expect a POI shift when off a bag & barricade compared to bipod support.  It’s about 1 moa / .3 mil in my experience with a .223 and .224 Valkyrie platform. A shorter and lighter weight barrel profile doesn’t seem to be as effected as much a thick (including a government profile) or long barrel. 

You dont need a game changer to shoot well off of barricades, but it certainly helps. I've been shooting outlaw two gun matches at Core/Atlus off and on for years now. After the first one, I ran out and bought a pile of different bags. Anymore though, I'm perfectly happen with a small grippy bag and a X-Wing bag used in conjunction with my bipod. 

My personal best practice is to bury the magwell into the barricade if at all possible when use of the bipod isn't feasible. "Pool Que" works well when I cant rest the rifle on the barricade but I have my own spin on it. I will tighten down my sling and use my elbow to pull it in as tight as I can while capturing a section of it between my palm and the barricade. 

For clarity, this is all done with with either a KAC LPR or 16" carbines. I swore of precision bolt guns years ago and have so far kept that vow. 

                                       -----------------------------------------

The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. - M. Twain

Are you learning to shoot off barricades for practical training value or the game (PRS) .

 

2 different things really as its unrealistic to pack a million game changers and pump pillows in a duty setting but almost a requirement to be competetive for prs.

arbox1005 posted:

Are you learning to shoot off barricades for practical training value or the game (PRS) .

2 different things really as its unrealistic to pack a million game changers and pump pillows in a duty setting but almost a requirement to be competetive for prs.

Practical training value. PRS in my post was only in reference to having it rather recently come up as they like barricades, so those have made it into regular rotation for matches, and now I have a wide selection off barricades to shoot from, so can practice it more easily. I think I fell into a square range mindset as a result of most ranges and so on not having/allowing unconventional shooting positions so I suck at it. Trying to fix it. 

Also was trying to say earlier what you said better: so, I agree 100% I don't want to buy more bags and game it up, but keep to what is likely to be in my ruck when out in the field, etc. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

FWIW, my precision rifle is an old .308 700 PSS more recently in an XLR Element stock, so I do have things like a magwell (vs the mag just sticking out) and have added a few SMALL barricade stops over time. It's just under 14# empty, which is probably nearly as low as I can go with 26" or heavy barrel. Though the Steiner scope isn't a lightweight either. 

Have seen one or both video before, but not with as much context as today, so... ideas.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Back Spin posted:

... Also, with a semi-auto, expect a POI shift when off a bag & barricade compared to bipod support.  It’s about 1 moa / .3 mil in my experience with a .223 and .224 Valkyrie platform. A shorter and lighter weight barrel profile doesn’t seem to be as effected as much a thick (including a government profile) or long barrel. 

Why.... ???? I thought free float was free float and the gun was pretty well isolated from outside interference. What am I missing here? Esp since you said self-loaders vs bolt rifles? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

As best I can tell from personal observation and reading stuff on the Snipershide forums, most free float AR hand guard designs are still attached to the barrel nut, which is screwed down onto a relatively thin receiver extension. So any pressure on the hand guard will impart influence onto the barrel. 

There are receivers (VLTOR MUR for example) with thicker dimensions and other handguard designs (supposedly the Seekins IRMT) that reportedly can work around the issue of pressure and POI shift. I have no personal experience with those designs, however.

 

Huh. Interesting. I have nothing approaching a truly precision self-loading anything, but will have to try that sometime, see if I can induce obvious POI changes. Good to know.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

These are a good option that can stay attached to the rifle with minimal impact:

http://stores.hogsaddle.com/pi...ins-barricade-pad-1/

 

OR

https://triadtactical.com/rifle-forend-wrap/

 

These assist with building a hasty barricade position in a pinch and in the case of the Pig skins are actually a bit grippy too which helps. They attach via an adhesive velcro patch and 2 come in the pack so you either have a spare or can setup two rifles. It's not all about gear but these are 2 small things that can make life easier.

 

This was all very helpful. Got a higher percentage of hits (nearly perfect in fact, though still slow) on my morning practice. Recoil recovery better than I expected as well, was able to see impacts, as long as past about 400 yds, already. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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