Getting a new vest from the dept and there are 3 new options available,  I'm leaning towards point blank but always looking for good info. 

 

1) survival armor - 

-Falcon,  td06 II or IIIA

-paragon II

-paladin II or IIIA

2) gator hawk - 

-helix II or  IIIA

3) point blank 

-alpha elite II or IIIA 

-alpha elite black IIIA

 

*handgun duty ammo is gold dot 9mm

Thanks 

 

 

Original Post

PB Alpha elite IIIA in a BALCS cut would be my choice.

It opens up your carrier options a lot and will provide an armor cut you can move and fight in.

The PB concealment cut maximizes coverage at the expense of mobility and range of motion IMO. Most of our guys have permanent bulge in the center of their PB vests because they are cut too wide across the chest. When they bring their arms forward to drive, write or shoot, the vest compresses and bulges out. Over time it becomes permanent. UNSAT.

Go with BALCS cut.

Point Blank is good on standard stuff, but does a piss poor job with "custom fit" armor and carriers.

More than half our vests or carriers went back for refit. Of those, about half went back a second time.

Their concealment cut pattern is football bat, and their external carrier designs for concealment cuts are beyond salvation. It is where the term RSUC originated.

And they refuse to take constructive critique. We laid it out for the factory rep. We got the equivalent of a " You'r limp writing it" response, and we're told that "The market" wants it this way.

There is a reason most of my armor carries a Velocity Systems or Mayflower R&C label. Crye handles the rest.

I have the PB Alpha Elite IIA concealment vest. It's worn under a traditional uniform shirt, with plenty of Dept. Issued flair attached to the shirt. Vest comfort is top notch compared to my previous ABA concealed vest. 

Only complaint, and I don't think any concealed vest/flair combo would solve this issue, is shouldering a rifle. My name tag and all important CIT pin fall off every time I bring my SOPMOD stock to my shoulder. Mostly the CIT pin. The rubber butt pad grabs my flair. More of a uniform than vest issue though. For patrol, our shirts look like we are ready to invade Poland. Pair that with traditional uniform pants, and we have a very "functional" patrol uniform.

As far as vests go, the PB Alpha Elite is hard to beat. Thin, flexible, and comfy for a vest. Can't vouch for its ability to stop incoming rounds, and hopefully I'll never have to. Dyneema fabric appears to be GTG from my research.

If you can't be safe, be dangerous.
Joe007 posted:

It's a normal patrol, under the uniform or plain clothes vest.   I thought they just did the standard shooters/men's cut for those? 

They do. And call it a "concealable". It is still stupid by any other name. The cut is wrong and the carriers may as well be made out of Saran wrap.

Think LF.net hack.

You order the BALCS cut armor and a Lo-Viz BALCS carrier. You end up with a more workable armor cut and a carrier that is more durable in spades.

And when you are cleared to wear external, you have a common cut that allows many viable choices of external carrier which will properly position your armor and allow you to wear properly sized plates if desired.

Or you talk the Quarter Master into buying a Mayflower/Velocity System LPAC or LPAAC with VS13A armor for you. That is the ideal setup for most LEO work. The LPAC works fine as a "concealable" or under uniform/plainclothes carrier. The LPAAC can work for that in a pinch, but is a great external carrier- and is scalable.

Joe007 posted:

A little slight of hand there, the article testing refers to the AXIIIA model which is not a 'black series' model AXBxxx. 

Here's a quote from a PB sales rep that I was able to get in an email:

Numerous brands claim they have a ballistic package that passes the FBI Protocol. What I will say is that the ALPHA ELITE (model#AXIIIA) passes the one known as "FBI 4.1 Protocol" which is their newest testing protocol. Companies like to mislead by stating theirs passes the FBI protocol but none can say the 4.1. We are the only brand to date that has passed the protocol successfully. Don't forget that the AXIIIA is tri-compliant so it not only passes the FBI 4.1 protocol but also the DEA protocol along with the NIJ06 standard as well.
 
In regards to the ALPHA BLACK (AXBIIIA). It meets and exceeds the NIJ06 compliant and has some special threats testing as well. 
 
We made the mistake of buying a half dozen going by the advertising materials. 
 
When I questioned the PB rep he wanted me to call- "too much to discuss in an email."
When I ignored his call requests he relented and sent the above.
 

 

 

 

“There are two ways to do most anything- right . . . and again.”  Pat Rogers

Longeye posted:
Joe007 posted:

It's a normal patrol, under the uniform or plain clothes vest.   I thought they just did the standard shooters/men's cut for those? 

They do. And call it a "concealable". It is still stupid by any other name. The cut is wrong and the carriers may as well be made out of Saran wrap.

Think LF.net hack.

You order the BALCS cut armor and a Lo-Viz BALCS carrier. You end up with a more workable armor cut and a carrier that is more durable in spades.

And when you are cleared to wear external, you have a common cut that allows many viable choices of external carrier which will properly position your armor and allow you to wear properly sized plates if desired.

Or you talk the Quarter Master into buying a Mayflower/Velocity System LPAC or LPAAC with VS13A armor for you. That is the ideal setup for most LEO work. The LPAC works fine as a "concealable" or under uniform/plainclothes carrier. The LPAAC can work for that in a pinch, but is a great external carrier- and is scalable.

Is there a (long) model number for the balcs cut panel and one for the low visibility carrier? Apparently I'm being difficult and no one else has ever asked to go that route and they can potentially see if I can get approved if I have something for them to pull up and review, just asking for that cut and that carrier wasn't enough for even the West Coast rep, thanks for the help either way

https://www.velsyst.com/spear-balcs-soft-armor.html

https://www.velsyst.com/operators-assault-vest.html

https://www.velsyst.com/low-pr...e-armor-carrier.html

https://www.velsyst.com/contact-us

The above links should get you started. You may have to have a custom slick carrier made. Just tell them you want an LPAC made that will fit BALCS armor or an OAV built without any MOLLE. 

VelSys has a nice LE/MIL discount as well, and it applies to both COTS and custom stuff.

VelSys/Mayflower has been easy to work with in my experience. They thrive on getting Good Guys what they need.

We replaced one "generation" of armor with Gator Hawk and it was a disaster. Nearly every single vest had to be returned for resizing after their rep failed at measurement. Then about half of the replacements were ill-fitting and we were essentially told to make it work. I absolutely hate my concealed armor. 

In God we Trust. All other run through NCIC.

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