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I finally broke down and did it...I've wanted a proper limited devision pistol for a long time. It's a Cameron's Custom 2011 built on a STI frame with a full dust cover & rail, double undercut silicon carbide grip with a 5" Schuman bull barrel, flattopped & lightened slide, recessed target crown, hard chrome, etc...basically all the bells and whistles. I picked it up today and loaded up some rounds with a recipe my gunsmith recommend and damn...this thing SHOOTS!!! It came with the 3 tuned mags giving me 20+1 of .40= more death power...can't wait to get a holster for it and get it out to a match.

 

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flash22 posted:

Stray Round,

Thanks for the complements. The nice thing about the Corian grips is that they clean easy.  I want to get this thing sent into S&W next year to get scratched up and hopefully I can also find a set of ivory grips for it at a decent price.  Seems like a good 40th b-day present to myself. 

My Mom carried a Python back when she was on patrol in the Chicagoland area and I'm a big fan of history and tradition.  It's a cool way to acknowledge where you came from, begin a tradition, and create a family heirloom to pass onto my daughter.  I tried to carry it when I can but still stay practical with other items readily accessible.  I rock it at traffic court, trials, depositions, and inspections.

 It may or may not find its way into my drag bag  on a call out one of these days, just because...

 

What is the make/model of that holster, belt and cartridge case.  I've got a 686 I'd love to match up with some nice leather (belt, speed loader pouch, cartridge pouch).  It doesn't look as nice as yours though.

cd228 posted:
flash22 posted:

Stray Round,

Thanks for the complements. The nice thing about the Corian grips is that they clean easy.  I want to get this thing sent into S&W next year to get scratched up and hopefully I can also find a set of ivory grips for it at a decent price.  Seems like a good 40th b-day present to myself. 

My Mom carried a Python back when she was on patrol in the Chicagoland area and I'm a big fan of history and tradition.  It's a cool way to acknowledge where you came from, begin a tradition, and create a family heirloom to pass onto my daughter.  I tried to carry it when I can but still stay practical with other items readily accessible.  I rock it at traffic court, trials, depositions, and inspections.

 It may or may not find its way into my drag bag  on a call out one of these days, just because...

 

What is the make/model of that holster, belt and cartridge case.  I've got a 686 I'd love to match up with some nice leather (belt, speed loader pouch, cartridge pouch).  It doesn't look as nice as yours though.

It made my Jeffery  Custom Leather and is the Ranger model holster.  He worked with me on the setup ideas and the communication was excellent. I will use him again for another setup when the time comes. 

 

Link to to the holster. 

http://www.jeffreycustomleather.com/Ranger.html

Being a 'fan' of the weapons of both the crooks and coppers during the prohibition and depression era, I've always wanted a Remington 8 (or 81). I stopped by a gun store I rarely visit yesterday and low and behold, what was there?

Remington81

And at a steal of a price, as 30 Remington ammo is about as rare as an honest politician now (yup, they both can still be bought, but the price is high) 

I'm a huge fan of factory takedown guns (I've had a Winchester Model 12 for many decades now), so that was the frosting on the cake.

81-takedown

 

Semi-auto rifle designed/patented in 1900 by John Browning (produced 1905-1950)
They saw aerial action in WW1

illustrated-world-sept-1916
 One of the first semi-auto (along with the Winchester 1907) that was modified (15 round detachable mag) for law enforcement.

15rd

lapd-81

Now if I can just find a good deal on a BAR,  Thompson 1921 and a Hyman Lebman 1911 

Hyman Lebman 1911



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libertarian45 posted:

I have to double check but wasn't that the rifle used by Warren Oats in the Peckinpah classic "Ride the High Country"?  It struck me as odd that there'd be a semi auto in a western, so I had to do some research....

Yup,

rem8

What an 'era', that movies like The Wild Bunch (1911s,  Browning 1917, Mauser 1912s, Luger, M1903s, S&W M10, Winchester M12),  Big Jake (Bergman, 1903s, scoped rifle), The Professionals (1911s, 1903s, Browning 1017, Lewis Gun, honorable mention Claudia Cardinale) etc represented, the 'vanishing west of old'. Or even real life like the Rough Riders in Cuba, or Pershing in Mexico. Many a Single Action Army next to a belt-fed machinegun.

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mog posted:
libertarian45 posted:

I have to double check but wasn't that the rifle used by Warren Oats in the Peckinpah classic "Ride the High Country"?  It struck me as odd that there'd be a semi auto in a western, so I had to do some research....

Yup,

What an 'era', that movies like The Wild Bunch (1911s,  Browning 1917, Mauser 1912s, Luger, M1903s, S&W M10, Winchester M12),  Big Jake (Bergman, 1903s, scoped rifle), The Professionals (1911s, 1903s, Browning 1017, Lewis Gun, honorable mention Claudia Cardinale) etc represented, the 'vanishing west of old'. Or even real life like the Rough Riders in Cuba, or Pershing in Mexico. Many a Single Action Army next to a belt-fed machinegun.

Don't forget "Joe Kidd" where the bad guy uses a broom handle Mauser with the stock...

shoobe01 posted:

A favorite minor pasttime when watching a period film or reading up on some historical account where firearms are key: what would I likely have had or carried on this job? Not, with the wisdom of hindsight, but trying to put myself in the time, what would I have picked then

Well, not turn of the century, but if it was the 1960s, I would certainly carry a .32 ACP as it has a "delivery like a brick through a plate glass window", according to MI6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...re=youtu.be&t=87

 

libertarian45 posted:
mog posted:
libertarian45 posted:

I have to double check but wasn't that the rifle used by Warren Oats in the Peckinpah classic "Ride the High Country"?  It struck me as odd that there'd be a semi auto in a western, so I had to do some research....

Yup,

What an 'era', that movies like The Wild Bunch (1911s,  Browning 1917, Mauser 1912s, Luger, M1903s, S&W M10, Winchester M12),  Big Jake (Bergman, 1903s, scoped rifle), The Professionals (1911s, 1903s, Browning 1017, Lewis Gun, honorable mention Claudia Cardinale) etc represented, the 'vanishing west of old'. Or even real life like the Rough Riders in Cuba, or Pershing in Mexico. Many a Single Action Army next to a belt-fed machinegun.

Don't forget "Joe Kidd" where the bad guy uses a broom handle Mauser with the stock...

I thought that was “The Outlaw Josey Wales”. 

mog posted:

Being a 'fan' of the weapons of both the crooks and coppers during the prohibition and depression era, I've always wanted a Remington 8 (or 81). I stopped by a gun store I rarely visit yesterday and low and behold, what was there?

Remington81

And at a steal of a price, as 30 Remington ammo is about as rare as an honest politician now (yup, they both can still be bought, but the price is high) 

I'm a huge fan of factory takedown guns (I've had a Winchester Model 12 for many decades now), so that was the frosting on the cake.

81-takedown

Semi-auto rifle designed/patented in 1900 by John Browning (produced 1905-1950)
They saw aerial action in WW1

I have one in .300 Savage.

It is a blast to shoot. It is what I planned to bring the the TX hog hunt before I learned it was a night shoot.

k

mog posted:
shoobe01 posted:

A favorite minor pasttime when watching a period film or reading up on some historical account where firearms are key: what would I likely have had or carried on this job? Not, with the wisdom of hindsight, but trying to put myself in the time, what would I have picked then

Well, not turn of the century, but if it was the 1960s, I would certainly carry a .32 ACP as it has a "delivery like a brick through a plate glass window", according to MI6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...re=youtu.be&t=87

 

As much as I'm a Bond fan, that one always makes me laugh whenever I watch"Dr. No".  I guess Maj Boothroyd was comparing it to Bond's preferred Beretta .25.

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MOJONIXON posted:
libertarian45 posted:
mog posted:
libertarian45 posted:

I have to double check but wasn't that the rifle used by Warren Oats in the Peckinpah classic "Ride the High Country"?  It struck me as odd that there'd be a semi auto in a western, so I had to do some research....

Yup,

What an 'era', that movies like The Wild Bunch (1911s,  Browning 1917, Mauser 1912s, Luger, M1903s, S&W M10, Winchester M12),  Big Jake (Bergman, 1903s, scoped rifle), The Professionals (1911s, 1903s, Browning 1017, Lewis Gun, honorable mention Claudia Cardinale) etc represented, the 'vanishing west of old'. Or even real life like the Rough Riders in Cuba, or Pershing in Mexico. Many a Single Action Army next to a belt-fed machinegun.

Don't forget "Joe Kidd" where the bad guy uses a broom handle Mauser with the stock...

I thought that was “The Outlaw Josey Wales”. 

Joe Kidd trailer.  A few glimpses of the Mauser with Clint using it.  I think it was wielded by Don Stroud or Paul Koslo in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uaYrGXeBaI

 

stray round posted:

TX Ranger Frank Hamer used one of those Remington autoloaders and had one when Bonnie and Clyde met their end.  

 

Yup, word was (of course nothing from him as he was tight-lipped in his day) that that is his standard Model 8 (not the engraved one below, and with a standard 5 round mag) on the left, sitting on top of Bonnie and Clyde's car

Ambush-site-May-23rd-1934-closeup

I like the 'story' that at the start of the ambush he fired two headshots through the front window with his Model 8 and then sat down and had a smoke while everyone else blasted the car.

Remington gifted him an engraved model

remington-gift-to-hamer

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Bill, Idaho posted:

Since most of the time it is far easier and faster (and more accurate) to get information here than google, I thought I had read Hamer's autoloader was chambered in either .351 or .401 as most LE Remington's were back in the day. 

  Hunter's with one arm bigger than the other in Maine used the .30 caliber ones.

Yup, most of the 'law guns' were 35 Remington. When Remington took over making factory 'Police' guns using Peace Officer Equipment Co. magazines (during the switch from the Model 8 to 81), they were only offered in 30 Remington and 35 Remington. With most being 35 Remington.

The model 8 was made in  25, 30, 32 and 35 Remington (all proprietary cartridges), with the model 81 adding 300 Savage and dropping the 25 Remington. If you are looking for one of these to shoot, see if you can find any caliber other than 25 or 30 Remington which are both about $50 a box (20).  Other calibers- 35 Rem-$20, 300 Savage-$25, 32 Rem $32.  

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Bill, Idaho posted:

  On the few "documentary" shows I watched about their demise, it usually looked to be pretty close- maybe 25 yards or so.   I can't find a definitive distance.

"Texas Ranger" a biography of Hamer claims the vehicle was 50 foot from the officers.

Here is some footage shot at the scene with Bonnie's body still in the vehicle that you've probably seen.  Assuming that both sides of the road were similarly wooded as shown behind the vehicle 50 ft sounds about right.    Plus some of the officers were armed with Rem Model 11s.    The officer with the BAR was placed farthest as containment if Clyde tried to escape in the vehicle.

 

"I guess we can see where the good comrad Kalashnikov came up with part of his AK design"

Russian collusion again!

 

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flash22 posted:
stray round posted:

TX Ranger Frank Hamer used one of those Remington autoloaders and had one when Bonnie and Clyde met their end.  

 

Hamer also rocked a 1911 in 38 super and a SA Colt.   That is such a cool area and blending of old and new technology. 

Pure BS as far as I am concerned and it has been a bit of a project of mine.  Show me one iota of evidence of Hamer ever even owning a 1911 other than one of Clyde’s?  Same with the b.s about using a LE Model 81 with a ten round magazine....that wasn’t even released at the time of the Bonnie and Clyde Ambush.  He had one later based on lessons learned from Bonnie and Clyde.  He did use his two favorites...the engraved Model 8 in .30 Remington and the engraved SAA in .45 Colt (Old lucky).  He had a back up hand gun as well....which I contend was NOT a .38 Super 1911.  Hamer was not a fan of Tommy Guns, and his experience with the 1911 was not positive.  Also, most of the guys on the law side of Bonnie and Clyde were using both Remington Model 11’s and Model 8’s.  

Wow, speaking of Remington Model 11's----which plays right into my "Just Because" guns......

For the last handful of years, I renewed my interest in Browning A5's. I already had a couple of older ones (20'-30's). I ran across another older one, and picked it up, then another .... and now a couple of safes are being held down by A5's inside.  (It has certainly helped my gun appropriations with having a daughter work at a gun safe factory!!)

 Just like many here, a person can get pretty sharp regarding certain things, such as ARs, gear, etc.  In the last decade or so, Browning A5's have tripped my trigger. I have got to the point where I can walk through a gun show and simply look at an A5 and pretty well tell how old it is (and its approximate value).  Like other weapon systems/evolutions, small changes in things can date it to a certain degree.    I learned early in the game:   Remington made a virtual identical copy called the Model 11, as well as Savage (Model 720 I think), A5's were made essentially from 1900 or so until 2000 or so. I am speaking in general numbers. In about 76 or so, Brownings were then made in Miroku Japan.

Collecting any firearm species is an ongoing process.  A friend called me the other day and said he just got a smoking deal on an A5 ($250!).   He described it to me-a 12 gauge, plain barrel, rear safety, square-gripped, non-engraved Browning.  He gave me the serial number to look up the actual date of birth. 

That's where things went sideways---- I could not find the number he gave me in any of the websites with serial number listings. The number simply did not exist in Browning records.   I had him send me pictures. Sure enough, it says Browning on the side, in typical Browning script, and has the infamous magazine cut-off. Wait a minute, why isn't the serial number underneath in front of the magazine feed opening?  It's on the side of the receiver- which instantly tells me from the very early days of learning about Brownings--this is really a Remington Model 11!

So, after a couple of hours of studying- I learned a bunch. All of what I learned is confusing as hell.  When WW2 started, the FN plant in Belgium quit making A5's for Browning.  Remington was making Model 11's stateside.  Remington started making Brownings- marking them as Browning, complete with the magazine cut-off- while they still made Model 11's (which were marked as Remingtons.)!   The Browning marked ones were later referred to as an "American Browning".

Therefore: Before WW2 :  Browning made Browning A5's.    Remington made Remington Model 11's-both marked as such respectively.   During the war, Remington made Remington marked Model 11's and Browning marked A5's. After the war, FN opened back up, and started making Belgium marked Browning A5's, Remington went back to making Remington marked Model 11's.

 

I never knew that. No one here probably cares.   (Of all the A5's I have, the ONLY actual Remington Model 11 I have is a parkerized one with a Savage barrel- with a flaming bomb stamped on both the barrel AND the receiver.) 

 

A good article on Frank Hamer's Remington 8

http://thegreatmodel8.remingto...ety.com/?page_id=434

The website is a wealth of information on the 8 & 81

And some more on his guns https://www.americanrifleman.o...er-legendary-lawman/

It is also interesting that after the Kansas City Massacre  https://www(dot)fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/kansas-city-massacre-pretty-boy-floyd the FBI bought a bunch that were 'special'  http://thegreatmodel8.remingto...ety.com/?page_id=867

"The Kansas City Massacre changed the FBI. Prior to this event the agency did not have authority to carry firearms (although some agents reportedly did) and make arrests (they could make a "citizen's arrest", then call a U.S. Marshal or local law officer), but a year later Congress gave the FBI statutory authority to carry guns and make arrests (in May and June 1934). The FBI acquired their first Thompson submachine guns and Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifles. But, after requesting that Remington Arms provide a replacement for the Winchester, the agency later adopted specially modified variants of the Remington Model 81 semi-automatic rifle."

From the book Go Down Together: The True, Untold Story of Bonnie and Clyde by Jeff Guinn

hamer-bc

 One of the posse members, Ted Hinton wrote a book 'Ambush', and in that he said that two of the 1911s were .38 Supers.

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