Kicking it Old School: Belts and Suspenders for LBE

R.Moran posted:

SGM would look at it and say.."I don't wanna see this shit..I wanna see what you take to the field"....uh.."No you don't SGM, that shits dirty:

Classic.

--Dave

 

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally."

“The interior dividers were  universally cut out. I once saw the oldest of ol..that actually had three interior flaps that snapped over the individual mags. I played around with various ways of carrying the mags..rounds up, down and even facing the buckle.”

Those were the old LINCOE pouches.  Kind of bridged the gap between M67 system and ALICE.  They usually ended up with the flaps cut out, kind of rare to find them these days.

“CSM dickhead made them wear it under their BDU top...sigh.”

I swear theres something in the water at the SMJ academy 

"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

Oh man you guys are taking it back now.  Funny how much of this you forget.  When I got some of those pouches with dividers I thought, well, that must be the way they found that works the best.  Little did I know.  Yeah that shit was cut out quickly.  And the individual flaps.  Ha, someone with some serious mental constipation with that one.  Funny how we worked out of those things for years before all the Gucci gear.  Maybe because we were more jungle oriented-dunno, but don't remember getting "killed" because I couldn't do a speed reload out of some high speed open top pouch.  Man I still wish I had some of those pouches from: "Arkansas School for the Blind".  Kinda sums up my whole military experience.

CSM's, God bless'em.  Right before I left Racoon, we had this one who thought we were a bunch of pirates and had to rejoin the Corps.  So he initiated all these little irritating regulations, like you know, proper uniform wear, not to mention taking a dim view of all our equipment mods.  Kinda came to a head one night at the chow hall.  We were used to wandering in there with whatever we had on after various evolutions.  When my bud and I got refused entry, because we didn't have a "full military uniform" or whatever, we decided to get a little creative.   As I recall, I think he came back in a wetsuit, and I chose a zoom-bag.  Did not go over well.  We were "counseled" about setting a better example for the troops.  Which I pretty much thought we were.

But back to field gear.  I'm getting ready to rotate back stateside, and I've got these two big footlockers crammed with all sorts of shit.  Scuba, jump, rappel gear, not to mention jungle ruck, custom belt kits, etc.  The MP's come out to inspect my shit.  I'm thinking, uh, oh.  But all they were interested in was their dog sniffing for drugs.  They're like, cool, and put their seal on it.  So I'm like, cool, and took it all home.               

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Those CSM are so far removed from the reality of the field...if they were ever really in it..that they are clueless. 

In the 25th, I had a 1sgt that decided to do PCIs one field probkem... mind you he didn't actually go to the field...he wanted troops to move their ammo and canteen pouches around so they could stand at attention with their arms at their side...I asked him how are they going to jump a ruck or lie in the prone...he looked at me like a dog looking at a wrist watch.



I always looked at the various assault type vests as more for fighting from your feat..not prone..so more for mout.

An LBE style is more for conventional field combat. 

A good smooth, sorta quick reload with retention is fine, when it means your ammo pouch will protect and retain your mags thru harsh conditions and over a long period of time. 



There used to be a company that made what was sort of a modernized take on old kit. Made with pack cloth, old style closures etc. One rig was called the mud roller...I searched but couldn't find them..be interesting to take a fresh look at their stuff.

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Maybe FMCO?  I know they used those closures on their vests when everyone else was starting to go to velcro and button flaps.

"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

Yeah and that's the key really; being able to determine what might work for you, and what might not work so well.  And then maybe, I don't know, going out and field-testing it.   Tools in the tool kit.  Knowing what might work best in a scenario, and training enough to validate that.  Or finding you're wrong, and trying something else.   It's definitely a continuing process.   

Instead of mindlessly copying someone else.  You may have to do that active duty; you don't have to do that now.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

This talk of Sergeant  Major standardization is making me twitch.

When I was an XO, Bn SgtMaj cooked up this gear SOP that had two M4 doubles on the weak side of the body, with two grenade pouches right above them.

I asked a squad leader one day, who had prescribed that shit, and if he saw any problem with...I dunno...maybe extracting fucking magazines since the grenade pouches obstructed the mag pouch flap.  When he said the idea had come from Bn, I just walked away.  Probably found a cat and kicked it.

Dude was a former Force Recon guy too, but lost his mind with the uniformity shit.

The cycle of jackassery will return soon enough.  Remember that there are E-6s out there who have never deployed to a combat environment.

Let that marinade for a moment.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

FMCO....I do believe that them, thanks!

I think for GPF, you need a rig that's good enough everywhere, not just one place.

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

jcustisredux posted:

...if he saw any problem with...I dunno...maybe extracting fucking magazines since the grenade pouches obstructed the mag pouch flap.  When he said the idea had come from Bn, I just walked away...

Naw, it's fine, as you also missed the new BN SOP that ALL engagements will start with everyone throwing both of your grenades 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Well then try UW Gear.  He makes a good top flap pouch with a tuck tab closure.  Specializes in chest rigs but also does single pouches.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

I remember this dude shows up at the drill center one weekend, with a DD-214 with practically every school you could think of.  Shoulda been a red flag, but the guy had a line of shit just as long.  So went out to the bush with us, and was teaching some funky shit. But hey the dude was supposed to high speed so we went along.    Turns out the guy had forged his service record.  You just never know sometimes.  So yeah, if it smells like bullshit...     

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

R.Moran posted:

 

I always looked at the various assault type vests as more for fighting from your feat..not prone..so more for mout.

An LBE style is more for conventional field combat. 

 

I found carrying a lot of weight on the chest a bit annoying (I know you're talking about LBVs and not chest rigs per se).  While in training, I was stuck often as C2 gunner (FN C2 LAR, like the Australian L2).  We had to keep 4 X heavy steel FN 30rd 7.62 mags strapped across the chest in what we called the "C2 Bra".  During section live fire attacks I found it hard to catch my breath and I couldn't ventilate when over-heated.  In 1985,with the issue of new webbing, C2 pouches were moved to where the rifle mag pouches were.  Ever since, I haven't been a fan of chest rigs.  

 

The C2 Bra.  Extracting the big, heavy mags while prone was....a challenge sometimes:

mceclip0

In retrospect, kind of like wearing body armour with plates....

The Canadian-built FN C2 LAR.  2 pers section. In use from approx. 1958- 1988:

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

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R.Moran posted:

Looks like FMCO is no longer

Is this it?

http://www.antipersonnel.net/fmco/index.html

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Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

Yeah the stupid is strong in the garret troopers.  If you don't know T,T,P's, then you know spit and polish.  It's the fall-back position for ignorant NCO's.  Not to mention zeroes.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

LIBERTARIAN45 if you ever show me a picture of a C2 or that fucking C2 bra again , I will track you down and murder you[just kidding , but really don't] .I remember some genius section commander making me wear it on the hip like a high mounted drop leg rig[yeah 4 30 rnd  7.62 mags]

Eat til you are tired sleep til you are hungry

firemission4mortars posted:

LIBERTARIAN45 if you ever show me a picture of a C2 or that fucking C2 bra again , I will track you down and murder you[just kidding , but really don't] .I remember some genius section commander making me wear it on the hip like a high mounted drop leg rig[yeah 4 30 rnd  7.62 mags]

Ha ha. Like repressed memories coming out under hypnosis.  I recall seeing some guys wearing it on the side of the torso, under the left armpit...there was no comfortable way...

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

Regarding the C2, how well did they run?  I've "heard" that the heavy FALs were supposed to take the role of the BAR, but they just didn't run well in full auto.  

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dorsai posted:

Regarding the C2, how well did they run?  I've "heard" that the heavy FALs were supposed to take the role of the BAR, but they just didn't run well in full auto.  

Like most army guys, I'm no expert on the weapons I shot.  We were taught how to handle and basically shoot them.  I cannot find any anecdotes of them being shot in anger for real.  I imagine the Airborne Regiment shot them during the 1974 invasion of Cyprus  in defence of the airport.  But, I'm not aware of any accounts.  Maybe Linz is aware of some reports from Vietnam and their use by the ADF.  I never shot a BAR so difficult to compare.

In training, they seemed to do the job.  Lighter than BAR.  Bigger mag capacity than BAR.  Fun to shoot on the range.  PITA to lug around on ex (but less so than a C9/Minimi/249).  Built in bipod aided accuracy.  In training, my biggest beef was we never seemed to have enough ammo at hand to properly support a section or platoon attack.  The C2 gunner only had 4  issued 30 rd mags and was expected to use 5 rd stripper clips to reload.  One uniquely Canadian feature of our FNs was a cut back body cover with a built in mag charger.  If you had a pile of spare ammo in stripper clips, you could top off your mag without removing it (left over from Enfield days).

Image result for C2 rifle

If we were to take it to war, I'd like to believe common sense would prevail and more mags would be issued.  This happened in Afg.  Before 2001, when we complained that the new LBV had only 4 mag pouches for C7 the response was, "that's all you need.  You're only issued 5 mags..."  On arrival in Afg,I was given 10X mags and 300 rds.  The problem being for the C2 would be that 10 X steel, 30 rd, 7.62mags would weigh….a bunch.  In the old days, bren gunners had wooden crates with spare loaded mags brought to them.  At some point, the weight trade off supports extra ammo in clips (or a belt fed with extra belts distributed among riflemen in the section).  In a pinch, you could use 20 rd C1 mags.  Although soldiers might be reluctant to part with one or more of the only 4 mags in their possession, feeding the firebase takes priority.

So, with the ammo source problem handled, the next challenge would be pumping rds out on auto through an LAR without a removeable barrel...wouldn't take long before the barrel burned out.  We did a platoon defensive live fire range in 86 where we sat in trenches with a ton of ammo.  Pretty sure we burned out all our C2 (6) barrels that day.  Company Commander jacked me up afterwards for not effectively controlling my platoon's fire.  Sure.  3 sections dug in, spread out over the ridge of a bowl in a horse shoe.  Ton of ammo (12 X HEAT rds fired from Carl G), belts and belts of 7.62 for GPMG. No radios.  No field phones...WTF did he expect me to do?  Apparently, he felt I should get out of my trench in the middle of a defensive battle and run around (with a loaded rifle, behind the trenches during a range), visit each trench and "impose my  will" on the soldiers...  He was actually a good guy.  A little too "book-smart" at times.  He retired as a BGen...

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

CDALY05 posted:
senorlechero posted:

One thing I liked to do was peruse pictures of dudes who used their kit. MACV SOG, selous scouts etc. That will give you some serious insight into what worked for them. 

Good reading here-

 

https://sofrep.com/43024/the-g...ops-sog-recon-teams/

Loved that detail.

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

libertarian45 posted:
Dorsai posted:

Regarding the C2, how well did they run?  I've "heard" that the heavy FALs were supposed to take the role of the BAR, but they just didn't run well in full auto.  

Like most army guys, I'm no expert on the weapons I shot.  We were taught how to handle and basically shoot them.  I cannot find any anecdotes of them being shot in anger for real.  I imagine the Airborne Regiment shot them during the 1974 invasion of Cyprus  in defence of the airport.  But, I'm not aware of any accounts.  Maybe Linz is aware of some reports from Vietnam and their use by the ADF.  I never shot a BAR so difficult to compare.

In training, they seemed to do the job.  Lighter than BAR.  Bigger mag capacity than BAR.  Fun to shoot on the range.  PITA to lug around on ex (but less so than a C9/Minimi/249).  Built in bipod aided accuracy.  In training, my biggest beef was we never seemed to have enough ammo at hand to properly support a section or platoon attack.  The C2 gunner only had 4  issued 30 rd mags and was expected to use 5 rd stripper clips to reload.  One uniquely Canadian feature of our FNs was a cut back body cover with a built in mag charger.  If you had a pile of spare ammo in stripper clips, you could top off your mag without removing it (left over from Enfield days).

Is this the right place to discuss 'automatic rifles'? There was a IAR topic but I missed out posting on it.

Carting the mags around might be germane...but who lugs a 7.62x51mm AR (of any sort) around these days?

(Edit: AR as in Automatic Rifle)

The entire bed, plus a pillow was available to lay on.  What does she choose?

IMG_1434

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

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I did an article on the pros and cons of webbing chest rigs and vests for British Tactical a while back it was also put up by Kit Pest (great review site) and Spotter Up probably a bit billy basic for this crowd, I wrote it for new guys trying to figure stuff out.

http://www.britishtactical.com...ests-and-chest-rigs/

https://kitpest.co.uk/pros-con...ng-vests-chest-rigs/

https://spotterup.com/pros-con...gs-british-tactical/

IMHO webbing systems are the one area where the Brits lead, the Army is still using webbing as the default set up and it is required for most courses at Brecon.

Jayjays, British Tactical both do good stuff, I havent heard anything bad about Dixies Corner but have no first hand experience with them. Dragon Supplies are good but QC seems spotty and Warrior Assault Systems is the UKs version of Blackhawk. If your ordering from the UK make sure your not being charged VAT (20% tax) .

You can find some good deals on UK Ebay and www.genkit.co.uk/

Linz posted:
libertarian45 posted:
Dorsai posted:

Regarding the C2, how well did they run?  I've "heard" that the heavy FALs were supposed to take the role of the BAR, but they just didn't run well in full auto.  

Is this the right place to discuss 'automatic rifles'? There was a IAR topic but I missed out posting on it.

 

Curses!  (twirling moustache).  My derail attempt has been thwarted again...

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

Yeah my bud runs one, with a new TT MALICE style ruck, and loves it.  Improved ALICE doesn't begin to cover it.  

There were two good references in this thread, SOG, and Brit kit.  If you combine the two, you will get something like V/M jungle kit.  

The Velocity belt kit rides like the Brit kit, all pouches even with the top of the belt.   But they've gone one better and lightened everything up.  On top of that, it sheds water well.  And, because it's built Brit style,  it actually integrates with a full sized rucksack.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Pesty0311 posted:

Has anyone rocked the Velocity Systems Jungle Rig? Looks like an improved Alice setup.

Not the full jungle rig, but I did just order a couple of the jungle canteen pouches and a couple of the jungle utility pouches.  I intend to use them on a small assault pack so I can put most things in quick access exterior pouches.  When I get them in, I can take some detailed photos of the construction.

With a transition into a dismounted training environment, I just put together a belt kit with a war belt I had lying around and First Spear Deelux suspenders.  Though, the pouches are mostly issued pouches.    With initial testing, the setup is very comfortable, but I do think I may eventually swap my mag pouches and canteen pouches with more of the velsys jungle pouches. The 3 mag pouches would free up real estate, and the issued canteen caps seem to always get snagged on pack waist straps.

The first spear deelux suspenders are exceptionally comfortable, being as wide as they are, but they’re also thin so my hope is they are still comfortable under armor.  I will need to wait before I can accurately comment on that.

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If pouches are good enough to mention: I have been using the VelSys Jungle Buttpack since February on my ruck as a sort of lid. It's a hell of a nice piece of gear, weighs nothing, is very well built, seems waterproof more than it should be, never ever gets wet itself, and is just well designed in every possible way. Price is almost all that kept me from getting the full setup for my LBE.

Since I've been abusing it quite badly by running Slik Clips through the top loops, and removing them under stress here and there, that has worn a bit, but it's minor fray type stuff. I think I could do this for 20 more years before it had a chance of failure. 

ETA: I also fingerfucked some of the rest of the kit at @Lightfighter's store. All seems to be as well designed and built. Never seen the harness so didn't try it on so zero idea how it works myself. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Yeah man, it's been amazing to watch since my time, which was pretty much the same thing since WWI, until today, the advances in materials and design have been pretty significant.  

The thing to remember is it's nice to have a full set of rigs for different missions and not get too wrapped up in one way of doing things.

V/M is expensive so if you're not sure about  setting up a belt kit, get the surplus PLCE stuff first, and then if you like it, go up to V/M.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Between VM and Jay Jays, I actually like the Brit set up better, with the split straps coming off the back.  But the VM rig so much lighter you may decide that trumps things.  I have heard even Brits are buying VM kit, so it's definitely on par with what they run.  

The thing to remember is this is jungle kit.  There's a reason why it's light weight and sheds water so well.  This feature may not always be needed.  If I was in the western mountain regions, it wouldn't be worth it, to me.  But if I was in the swampy southeast, it sure would.

Yeah I think VelSys is surfing the bubble because of the return of attention to hot, wet weather patrolling in densely wooded areas.  For a lot of folks that is closer to their sit than playing Bagdad SWAT.  Both military and civilian.  So the pendulum swings.  Same thing happened after Vietnam.  Except it went from dis-mounted patrolling to mounted, mobility warfare stuff.   Round n round.             

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

I walk my dog (GSD) in the woods here in PA (between Gettysburg and Chambersburg).  I never walk in the woods without a pistol (generally Glock 21 with TTI extensions on the mags.....also .300 BO AR pistol during hunting season) open carry.  I typically run a HSGI cobra belt, with Safariland  7TS holster, dual mag pouch HSGI taco, HSGI dump pouch (to use as a dump pouch for the mags, but also as a catch all for anything I might find in the woods) and an old school super Leatherman for not only a knife, but the saw (longer than the regular size Leatherman's), and last but not least, a Halloran knifes take on a Kwaiken.  Sounds like a lot as I write it, but it's really not.

one thing I REALLY like about this belt is I wear a Velcro liner in the belt loops, and the outer belt mates up to it.  I never feel like one is battling the other or that the pistol belt is going to pull my pants down etc.  Without the pistol belt, I typically wear a Galco leather belt.

In my pockets I carry a folding knife of some kind (Spyderco Military, Microtech DOC or SOCOM Elite, Benchmade LUM Tanto, etc.) and a Surefire Executive Defender flashlight with upgraded LED head (at home, in the woods, or "in town"; these two items are ALWAYS with me from wake to bed).  I generally move the folding knife to my back pocket, as the holster sits over the top of my front slant pocket (not only is it inaccessible, the pressure tends to hurt and aggravate my sciatic  nerve).  I also smoke a pipe, so I typically have a least 2 Bic lighters somewhere on me (usually in the dump pouch, so I can access them).

So, this last weekend I end up having to search for a lost dog in the woods (a neighbor makes their small 10 yo walk the dog; dog spotted deer in the woods, broke from boy's grasp, and the chase was on.  Dog is a +/- 40lb rescue mutt, FULL of energy and about 3 yo).  We (the boy I dragged through the woods with me) ended up finding the dog about a mile away, on the top of a thickly tree/brambled hillside, with the retractable (I've told them it's a BAD idea, but of course they know better) lead wrapped around a bunch of small trees.  The dog was stuck/trapped, and we hadn't found it, who knows what would have happened to it. 

SO......DUDE......WTFUCK does this have to do with LBEs etc.?  I realized, on the side of that hill, slippery as FUCK, and with all the rocks of "Rocksylvania" just waiting to crack my skull open, that I was WOEFULLY unprepared to be out in the woods like I was.  It's been raining here (flash flood type rain) and I was just in shorts and t-shirt, no jacket; I had NO first aid/IFAK/boo-boo kit of any kind; I wasn't carrying any way of "signaling" in case I got over my head (no cell phone, but also no whistle or any other signaling device - panel, etc.).  Worst of all, I had NO water (or anyway of gathering/purifying water).

So, now I'm looking BACK to LBEs as a way of plus-ing up what I'm carrying (I could just throw everything in a small ruck, but the gun/mags are non-negotiable, so I'll be wearing a belt ANYWAY, why not leave my back "open" and just put everything on the belt line).  While I like the HSGI cobra belt for what I'm carrying down, It's "thin" enough (I think it's 1.5 inches) to not be substantial enough to carry much more.  I bought the HSGI suspenders and attached them to the belt, but it just doesn't feel "right" somehow.  I think I'm going to go with a "sleeve",  and attach the suspenders to that.  The additions I'm looking at going with are:  either a plused up boo-boo kit (boo-boo kit with dressing/TQ/etc.) OR a plused up trauma kit (trauma kit with band-aides, etc.); HSGI taco water bottle holder with 500ml water bottle; and butt pack with sawyer squeeze filter with collection bag, lightweight rain anorak, 1x military casualty blanket (for simple shelter), 50+ft of type 1 paracord (I don't need 550lb/type 3 to build a shelter, it's approx. 90lb test and smaller/lighter), small "survival kit" (with  matches/ferro rod, signal whistle, caffeine gum, etc.....might be kept in my pocket instead) and two forms of marking (1 is some orange "tape", so I can mark my route as I go in and see how to come back out, also so if someone has to come after me, they can just follow my route; also, a "VS-17" panel, probably the LRS/lightweight one, as a visual aid); and last, if I can find it, a good waterproof topo map along with a compass, in case things really go sideways.

note:  the pistol itself could be a signaling device, but not one that I would readily rely on.  Although it IS loud, it's not uncommon to hear gunshots through the woods, all year round.  Also, although I carry 3x16 rounds-48, that IS finite, and I would prefer not to waste them.

One of things, looking at my belt options, that I'm noticing is; the outer sleeve/mole sleeve tends to want to "Roll" around the inner belt.  with the old LBE, we didn't have that issue; the belt might have SAGGED under the weight, but I never felt like it "rolling".  Is there just a stiff molle belt, that doesn't require an inner belt (has it's own buckle), that also mates up with a Velcro inner belt?  

Literally, I can walk off the back of my property, cross a couple of private parcels (hunting properties), and be in Michaux state forest of 85,000 sq acres.  This isn't open and unobstructed, but heavily wooded (pine and hardwood), with heavy undergrowth.  Knowing what and why and I'm planning, anyone have any suggestions?  I have the distinct feeling that this won't be the LAST time I'm humping through the woods looking for a dog (or child).


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

What I use  for bushwacking here in Maine( brook trout fishing stuff like that) with a similiar load is a lumbar pack. Current is a Kifaru tailgunner 1. I also have a Mountain Smith and a Kifaru Scout. The Kifarus have a bit of PALS on either side of the belt.  The Kifarus also have Pals on the packs. I run pouches(usally USGI SDS canteen) on the sides, a medium on the back of the Tailgunner and a couple of the old Kifaru 2 Qts on the Scout. The belt allows holsters Ifaks etc. I have a VN era pistol belt,butt pack, 2 canteens, and suspenders. Not bad when that stuff was cheap now that it is collectable hmm. 

Joined  4/5/03  Location Maine

I have a tailgunner.  Although I think it's a great piece of gear, it's not what I'm looking for, for THIS application.  I think I've found the answer to the belt:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...6OLRIJ2AVT&psc=1
and to the "buttpack":  https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...ZZ3J1QXK4V&psc=1

I like the belt because it has a stiffener and is open on the bottom to hang a holster.  I like the "2 qt canteen pouch" cause I can carry SOME stuff, but can't really overload it.  If I want more space to carry stuff, I can strap the Anorak on the top with some 1 wrap or similar.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

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