Latest evolution of the RAID pack: The Fight or Flight Pack

Traveling over Christmas....

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

shadow93 posted:

I'm willing to sacrifice myself into doing T&E. 

I am willing to sacrifice myself into doing Spanish T&E. In fact, I will buy one and write a review in Spanish for our guys here. Too much CHICOM shit from alixpress.

Joined: 30DEC08      Location: SPAIN

Take care, keep safe, stay frosty, brother!

tirotactico.net

geronimo posted:

About those pictures... 

Well, you see, here's what had happened...

Not to make excuses, but we've had a death in the family. I've been a little distracted the last week or so. 

Pack is really nice. I'll get photos this week.

 

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Thanks guys. I didn't mean to de-rail the thread. I'm sad, but not really befallen by grief, I am simply too busy trying to settle all the affairs and take care of the rest of the family. I am the executor as well and even over the past week or so, it hasn't really settled in yet. I know it will eventually. But thank you all.

I have some sales meetings later today and then I will get pics of the pack online. It is nice. I have some things I want the Proto to do a little different, but its nice. I want to hear what ya'all have to say before I let it known what I think of it.

Brad

 

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And I present to you the slick RAID (name TBD).

Your thoughts?

I think its missing the front BUNGEEs that we discussed in this thread, and a couple other thoughts - but I want to hear what ya'all think first.

Brad

 

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Attachments

Photos (4)

It's awful gray  

Even if in color, I do think that's a lot of flat fabric on the front. The front bungee I might never use, but if we're trying to make it look like a consumer pack, colorful bungee there would help with that. 

What's the inside fabric? Two conflicting thoughts I like on packs I own: 

  • Bright color, so you can see what's inside
  • Loop velcro, at least on say the lid, so you can use dappers and other hook backed organizers, stow your patches when you want to remove them from outside for a minute, etc.

What did the weight end up being? 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:
What's the inside fabric? Two conflicting thoughts I like on packs I own: 
  • Bright color, so you can see what's inside
  • Loop velcro, at least on say the lid, so you can use dappers and other hook backed organizers, stow your patches when you want to remove them from outside for a minute, etc.

What did the weight end up being? 

The inside is lined from tip-to-top with soft-side velcro.

 

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I'm late to the party but recently started a new gig that requires a lot of COMAIR travel, both domestic and international and am looking for a new pack to fill that bill.

I think the design is pretty slick and looks low-key enough (depending on color) and still functional. One thing that I think would make it better (for me) is if the computer stashing part was TSA friendly - you can zip it open and leave the computer in the backpack while going through the check point 

if you want a man to keep his head when the crisis comes you must give him some training before it comes. - Seneca

Pretty close to what I envisaged when I posted the original idea in the other pack thread. Basically a fat Cobra. Maybe call it the King Cobra.

The buckles on the outside don't appear to have a function, unless their other ends are just missing on the prototype.

I would lose the ports on top, and replace them with a simple covered hole like on the Cobra.

Can't see, but did you keep the MOLLE on the bottom?

I would definitely add the ability to put bungee on the lid ala Cobra 2.6.

Regards.

Mark

Formerly known as ML

It looks like it fits the bill, minus the missing bungie (or at least the loops that allow a length of bungie to be added) that you already mentioned.  It will do what it needs to do, which is allow someone to move low-profile, and then scale up once they’ve reached the AOR and need to carry extra stuff.  And it shouldn’t need T&E; it’s a slick RAID.

Do the running ends of the side pocket straps need to be that long?

And I agree that a PALS array on the bottom would have a lot of utility, without adding a lot of target indicator aspect.  It could take a ranger roll, tourniquet, ISO mat, etc.

A thought just occured to me that an offering in some sort of gray is a must.  A lot of knuckleheads around the world who would like to like to commit mayhem and murder have met compulsory military requirements in home countries or get hyped up on war flicks and they are familiar with olive drab and similar colors.

 

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Personally, I would take the side pockets, shorten them, then add some elastic.  I like to have water bottles wherever I go.  Without molle webbing, there's no real place to stick bottles, without putting them on the inside, taking up finite space.  Just my observation.


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

If I bought the pack in it's current form, these are the modifications that I would make before using it to travel;

  1. Remove the large velcro square, or have a removable cover made from the outer pack fabric...
    Any pack with a large velcro square like that is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

  2. Remove buckles & straps on the built-in side pockets...
    In my experience when the pack is stuffed full or nearly full, the objects in a RAID-pack's side pocket are kept in place by friction.  For other times the addition of velcro closure at the mouth of the pocket should be sufficient  and would be more streamlined/low-pro.

  3. Remove the buckles and straps used for pack compression on the front & rear...
    But keep the fabric loops that those buckles are attached to and put the same on the opposite side, this will allow people to be able to attach buckle & strap combo of choice, or run none at all when a side compression strap is unwanted.

shoobe01 posted:

 

What's the inside fabric? Two conflicting thoughts I like on packs I own: 

  • Bright color, so you can see what's inside

This, or at least a light color like light grey.

Makes finding things in dim light a LOT easier.


Moustache_6 posted:

If I bought the pack in it's current form, these are the modifications that I would make before using it to travel;

  1. Remove the large velcro square, or have a removable cover made from the outer pack fabric...

The removable cover, basically a patch made out of matching pack material, is superb. Biggest drawback to my blue BFG micro is the GIANT black velcro area. I inquired about ordering a scrap of it to make my own cover, but they had already gotten rid of all of it.

 

Otherwise this looks dope as fuck and I can see myself buying at least one as an aid bag.

 

----

"The thing everyone forgets about the Chinese is that they work on a 50-100 year master plan. Our best planning here goes out maybe a year or two."

playmaker55 posted:

I would want the Velcro removed. Also if possible a laptop compartment accessible without opening the main compartment. 

+1

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Love it as is, but as far as tweeks for improvement -

 

large velcro square  removable cover made from the outer pack fabric...

front BUNGEEs loops with multiple colors available for the shock cord

the addition of velcro closure at the mouth of the pocket should be sufficient  and would be more streamlined/low-pro.

keeping the compression straps on the side would add additional pressure for the side pockets staying closed

Molle on the base - multiple uses 

very bottom of bag (with molle ) made out of more durable material than the body of the bag. One piece of heavier material just on the bottom won't add that much weight but will increase weather/abrasion resistance. 

all of these elements have been mentioned earlier and would not represent major changes. 

as far as pie in the sky designing it myself, I would love for the front panel piece of material to be either a matching or contrasting leather or even waxed canvas- an absolutely non Tactical Timmy element that would shift the observed individual into different brackets perhaps. It is cost prohibitive and probably many wouldn't want it but hey, thats the power of the internet to express an opinion

if it was produced as is presented in the pics, I will probably buy two: one for me and one for the wife

Location Texas.

 

"So what are you gonna do if we get hit on this trip?" "Me?, I'm going to shoot some good pics of you nuking their ass. You do your job, I'll do mine. If I have to do yours,(unless you're the medic) we're probably all screwed!" - Standard reply , from Desert Storm through Iraqi Freedom

Mod the side outer pockets to fit a 32oz Nalgene comfortably. This would fit a lot of other random shit, and Nalgenes/Yetis are everywhere. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

MrMurphy posted:

Mod the side outer pockets to fit a 32oz Nalgene comfortably. This would fit a lot of other random shit, and Nalgenes/Yetis are everywhere. 

add this to my wish list as well please

Location Texas.

 

"So what are you gonna do if we get hit on this trip?" "Me?, I'm going to shoot some good pics of you nuking their ass. You do your job, I'll do mine. If I have to do yours,(unless you're the medic) we're probably all screwed!" - Standard reply , from Desert Storm through Iraqi Freedom

And in a pinch a Nalgene pocket will hold several AR mags, or a frag....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Damn it! You are going to cost me money!

My worthless .02 cents.

Keep the compression straps (I use those a lot.)

Delete the ports on the top (No need for me).

Lighten the interior color.

Heavier material on the bottom with Molle.

Optional cover for the velcro is fine with me.

Ability for the shock cords on the front.

Whats the size on this so far?

Gray? Sure. Blue-gray with yellow piping/bunji? Why not?

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

jcustisredux posted:

  And it shouldn’t need T&E; it’s a slick RAID. 

I disagree.  It absolutely has to be T&E'd.  Preferably by a person who will jog with it to work multiple times a week in Wisconsin winters, carrying an EDC loadout, food, a change of clothes, and maybe a laptop.

This same person should also be willing to test the pack on a week long trip this March to see The Big Rat down in Florida.  This would mean extended time in an NPE, while carrying water (testing the side pockets), rain gear (bungee lashings), and clothes, food and a couple cameras (interior layout).

I know a guy...

I'll dogpile on a couple good ideas already mentioned here:

-Bungees.  Definitely helps camouflage the pack, especially with non-subdued colors.  With the way the weather can change here, or anywhere, it would be a nice way to stow an outer layer.

-I like the compression straps.  If I'm trying to cinch down the interior load (when running) it makes a big difference to me, and my civvy Kelty has the same feature. The fabric loop that retains the buckle could double as a pass-through for the bungee, and if either were removable, all the better.

-I could take or leave the hydration pouch and access port.

-Will the pack have a sternum strap?  If so, please make it man-sized.  Some of us are banned from Benetton stores for ripping the sport coats.

-For an NPE focused pack, the Velcro, IMO, should go.  I might have a more discerning eye, but the color matched patch is still a giveaway.  In some ways, its worse; it not only marks you as someone who knows what's up, but as someone who doesn't want to look like they know what's up.  If you're the kind of guy who has to infiltrate an NPE and then flip the switch, you're probably working with other types who don't need a backpack with an IFF patch to determine if you're a friendly.  Maybe the wearer's side would be a good place for a patch square or tag to help you find your bag among others.  

-The gray looks nice.  A 2-tone option would also go low pro.  How about gray with black?  First Spear has a low profile pack in a green-tan colorway that looks like it could do equally well in the woods on in line at the grocery co-op.

Really nice work on this pack.   I'm interested in one.

"Absorb what is useful.  Discard what is useless.  Add what is specifically your own." -Bruce Lee

To double-tap the compression strap comments, I don’t use them to cinch the load down as much as I use them to secure soft items like an ISO mat, sleeping bag, bivvy, or similar to the pack.  

They are critical to the pack’s utility.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Chameleox posted:
jcustisredux posted:

  And it shouldn’t need T&E; it’s a slick RAID. 

 

-For an NPE focused pack, the Velcro, IMO, should go.  I might have a more discerning eye, but the color matched patch is still a giveaway.  In some ways, its worse; it not only marks you as someone who knows what's up, but as someone who doesn't want to look like they know what's up.  If you're the kind of guy who has to infiltrate an NPE and then flip the switch, you're probably working with other types who don't need a backpack with an IFF patch to determine if you're a friendly.  Maybe the wearer's side would be a good place for a patch square or tag to help you find your bag among others.  

 

I just want a place to velcro a scavenged Jansport patch I had velcro sewn on the back of. Or a red and white The North Face patch. Or a red and white Hey Fuck Face patch.

And if you really need to, you can cut it off with a seam ripper in about 90 seconds. 

 

----

"The thing everyone forgets about the Chinese is that they work on a 50-100 year master plan. Our best planning here goes out maybe a year or two."

Chameleox posted:
jcustisredux posted:

  And it shouldn’t need T&E; it’s a slick RAID. 

I disagree.  It absolutely has to be T&E'd.  Preferably by a person who will jog with it to work multiple times a week in Wisconsin winters, carrying an EDC loadout, food, a change of clothes, and maybe a laptop.

This same person should also be willing to test the pack on a week long trip this March to see The Big Rat down in Florida.  This would mean extended time in an NPE, while carrying water (testing the side pockets), rain gear (bungee lashings), and clothes, food and a couple cameras (interior layout).

I know a guy...

I'll dogpile on a couple good ideas already mentioned here:

-Bungees.  Definitely helps camouflage the pack, especially with non-subdued colors.  With the way the weather can change here, or anywhere, it would be a nice way to stow an outer layer.

-I like the compression straps.  If I'm trying to cinch down the interior load (when running) it makes a big difference to me, and my civvy Kelty has the same feature. The fabric loop that retains the buckle could double as a pass-through for the bungee, and if either were removable, all the better.

-I could take or leave the hydration pouch and access port.

-Will the pack have a sternum strap?  If so, please make it man-sized.  Some of us are banned from Benetton stores for ripping the sport coats.

-For an NPE focused pack, the Velcro, IMO, should go.  I might have a more discerning eye, but the color matched patch is still a giveaway.  In some ways, its worse; it not only marks you as someone who knows what's up, but as someone who doesn't want to look like they know what's up.  If you're the kind of guy who has to infiltrate an NPE and then flip the switch, you're probably working with other types who don't need a backpack with an IFF patch to determine if you're a friendly.  Maybe the wearer's side would be a good place for a patch square or tag to help you find your bag among others.  

-The gray looks nice.  A 2-tone option would also go low pro.  How about gray with black?  First Spear has a low profile pack in a green-tan colorway that looks like it could do equally well in the woods on in line at the grocery co-op.

Really nice work on this pack.   I'm interested in one.

I own the FS Comm pack in that exact color scheme. Works excellent for this type of load carriage. From downtown to the deep woods, it blends in. A hard use pack that doesn't look obvious.

I'd be interested in the slick raid, 2 tone, with nalgene friendly pockets on the sides. 

If you can't be safe, be dangerous.

Still think it should be called The Clash ...

- Muted 2 color exterior. I'm partial to a grey/green or similar; 

- light interior color;

- fabric loops / tubes on the outside of the pack's lid for routing shock cord to hold a jacket;

- 32oz Nalgene size side pockets shortened some /, with shock cord around the top like the side pockets on the Kelty (though the lack of this wouldn't impact my purchase decision);

- the side compression straps are perfect because I use them; 

- Leave the loop fabric on the inside of the lid;

- No feelings one way or another on the exterior loop patch's presence;

Thanks for getting this worked up by ATS. 

Leave the compression straps... those are useful.  External shock-cord is a plus.  

Ditch the external velcro square, or cover it... it's a dead giveaway that it's more than a "normal" pack.  

Side pockets are great for water... make them fit a nalgene bottle (though as I get older, I find it harder and harder on my shoulders to reach back for those pockets...)

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

Ok. This thread is cooking now - great posts!

Now that others thoughts are in the open, here are my thoughts:

1. Absolutely needs to have bungee on the front. What I'm thinking is the pack has the loops to attach bungee, and then the bungee straps are sold separately as a kit in all kinds of different colors. Pack comes in maybe 4 colors, but with the bungee sold as an accessory, there might be dozens of possible combinations (black pack with lime bungee, or OD pack with orange bungee, Coyote Pack with Black bungee, etc.).

2. I think I am in the camp that sees no value to the front velcro square. Not for this pack. It really is a 'why bother' feature. I need to think some more on the 'cover patch' idea - but to me, that might just be an admission that the front velcro is not the right feature for 'this' pack.

3. Compression straps aren't just a feature, they are the soul of a combat pack, slick or otherwise. This pack with removable compression straps wouldn't be the same pack. They are a necessity.

4. Commo ports - too many on this pack. One center commo/hydration port is perfect. This pack should remove two of the three commo ports.

5. Side pockets - I really can't figure out the use for side pockets on this pack. Sure, they're great for long items on an assault pack or aid bag, and would get some use in that role with this pack. But they really just seem 'in the way' on this version. Fun fact - the reason the original RAID had side pockets in the first place was a happy consequence of being the first pack with all-over PALS webbing. They needed to have panels to sew the bartacks to, and between Stephen, Matt Johnson, and I - in a "eureka" moment said, "why not make the top if this panel open so it can be a side pocket? So, maybe side pockets are not the right choice here?

With all that said, I like the idea of Nalgene bottle pockets on the outside. Love it, actually. But we want, really really really want to avoid re-designing anything (if we get too creative, we could kill the project, and we don't want that to happen). So, I am thinking of a compromise - what if the side pockets were just closed with Velcro (another great idea that came from this thread so far). But these might be too tall for Nalgene bottles. so what if the side pockets closed with Velcro but were shorter? Or, what if there were Bungee loops on the side of the pack instead of pockets all together - would bungee side bottle holders be a good idea?

6. Light color soft-velcro on the inside is a good idea. If the materials are available, I don't see any reason why this is not how it should be done.

7. Abrasion resistant bottom is a no-brainer. Put the PALS webbing and use 1000-d on the base of the pack. That is another good idea.

So, now I go back to listen mode - your thoughts?

Brad

 

Shop online, visit in-person, or call today for Uniforms & Clothing, Duty &
Tactical Equipment, Hard & Soft Armor, and Fighting Gear.


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I like where this is going. I agree with the side pockets being made to fit a Nalgene bottle. For an EDC pack, this would be a deal breaker for me. I could live without the compression straps, but would like a way to have shock cord on the outside. Just one port for a hydration pack would be plenty. I always liked the inside mesh pockets on the original RAID pack. I could live without them though.

"Never underestimate the predictibility of stupidity" RIP SSG Brad King. KIA April 2, 2007.

Ground Pounder posted:

...Just one port for a hydration pack would be plenty...

I really thought I would hate the single central port on the GG&G LW assault pack, but love it. Simple, easy to use, no sparrows have flown through it yet. Many other ports, I now see, are badly over-engineered. 

And yes, it's /just/ big enough to stick an antenna through if you need to press it into service as a radio pack. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Lightfighter posted:

1. Absolutely needs to have bungee on the front. What I'm thinking is the pack has the loops to attach bungee, and then the bungee straps are sold separately as a kit in all kinds of different colors. Pack comes in maybe 4 colors, but with the bungee sold as an accessory, there might be dozens of possible combinations (black pack with lime bungee, or OD pack with orange bungee, Coyote Pack with Black bungee, etc.).

ComCamGuy Reply- Agree 100%

 

2. I think I am in the camp that sees no value to the front velcro square. Not for this pack. It really is a 'why bother' feature. I need to think some more on the 'cover patch' idea - but to me, that might just be an admission that the front velcro is not the right feature for 'this' pack.

 

ComCamGuy Reply- I would prefer the "cover" concept since I use things like a Velcro pen holder on things like this or a glow in the dark patch  when I need to find it quickly

 

3. Compression straps aren't just a feature, they are the soul of a combat pack, slick or otherwise. This pack with removable compression straps wouldn't be the same pack. They are a necessity.

ComCamGuy Reply-Agree 100%

4. Commo ports - too many on this pack. One center commo/hydration port is perfect. This pack should remove two of the three commo ports.

ComCamGuy Reply-Agree 100%

5. Side pockets - I really can't figure out the use for side pockets on this pack. Sure, they're great for long items on an assault pack or aid bag, and would get some use in that role with this pack. But they really just seem 'in the way' on this version. Fun fact - the reason the original RAID had side pockets in the first place was a happy consequence of being the first pack with all-over PALS webbing. They needed to have panels to sew the bartacks to, and between Stephen, Matt Johnson, and I - in a "eureka" moment said, "why not make the top if this panel open so it can be a side pocket? So, maybe side pockets are not the right choice here?

With all that said, I like the idea of Nalgene bottle pockets on the outside. Love it, actually. But we want, really really really want to avoid re-designing anything (if we get too creative, we could kill the project, and we don't want that to happen). So, I am thinking of a compromise - what if the side pockets were just closed with Velcro (another great idea that came from this thread so far). But these might be too tall for Nalgene bottles. so what if the side pockets closed with Velcro but were shorter? Or, what if there were Bungee loops on the side of the pack instead of pockets all together - would bungee side bottle holders be a good idea?

ComCamGuy Reply-Agree 100% but it wouldn't be a complete redesign to make the pocket with more volume would it by making that one piece of fabric larger so when not held shut by Velcro (a good idea) it would be held more streamlined by the compression straps. I personally would like the side pockets to stay as deep as they are now since they could completely close over a Nalgene. If I need it to stick up for easier acess, I will stuff a wind shirt in the bottom. The slightly wider pocket would end up potentially similar to the one on the Kifaru Urban Zippy as far as bulk, not shape- https://store.kifaru.net/urban...2458liters-p150.aspx

 

6. Light color soft-velcro on the inside is a good idea. If the materials are available, I don't see any reason why this is not how it should be done.

ComCamGuy Reply-Agree 100%

7. Abrasion resistant bottom is a no-brainer. Put the PALS webbing and use 1000-d on the base of the pack. That is another good idea.

ComCamGuy Reply-Agree 100%, this might be a place in addition to the front panel for the second color

So, now I go back to listen mode - your thoughts?

Brad

 

Location Texas.

 

"So what are you gonna do if we get hit on this trip?" "Me?, I'm going to shoot some good pics of you nuking their ass. You do your job, I'll do mine. If I have to do yours,(unless you're the medic) we're probably all screwed!" - Standard reply , from Desert Storm through Iraqi Freedom

I am big on the side pockets, as I have used them a lot.  The method of closure isn't terribly important to me, nor the type of bottle it will hold (I just find the right-sized bottle that works, including plastic H2O bottles if necessary).   The side pocket mouth is not large enough, and  if you size it to fit a Nalgene, wouldn't that be problematic in terms of redesigning?

But please don't add bungee bottle carriers.  Those things are a snag hazard and PITA to use, and the bungee fails at the worst time.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

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