I'm looking for thoughts on storing bulk ammo in places that you have no control over the weather and environment. I've always stored all my ammo inside the living area of my house where the temperature and humidity are kept at human comfortable levels.

Contingency planning has me considering alternative and additional locations where I don't have the same control over the environment. Some thoughts include a detached garage or shed, or even a storage facility. It would be out of the weather, but still have the wide variations of temperature and humidity of New England. The ammo would be in a pick up truck bed tool box or similar, either in the original cardboard boxes, and/or ammo cans. The tool box would be off the floor, on 4x4s or the like.

How much of a negative impact would this type of storage have on the ammo? What other options are there that would mitigate those negatives?

Note: Don't be that guy and say, "Store it all at my house" 

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Original Post

following this for similar "strategy development"...

I've historically been fortunate enough to have some space in my in-law's basement (2.5 hours away, in a different state) for some contingency items (~3k of mixed rifle/pistol ammo & mags, some snivel gear).  And it worked out well when I would take a training class up closer to them.   But our parents all age and circumstances change, and that ability may soon dissolve.  (insert "fuck cancer" here).   Looking to set up a similar off-site storage capability closer to home... 

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"Of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there; Eighty are nothing but targets; Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them... They make the battle. Ah; but One; One of them is a Warrior... And he will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (Circa 500 B.C.)

 

Joined:  6/10/09          Location:  WDC area  (most of the time...)

 

I don't know what your area has in regards to humidity, but if you can get the ammo into USGI ammo cans when it is not humid, and leave them closed, your should be fine as far as moisture is concerned.  As far as temperature goes-----I don't what to tell you.  

I would think the cardboard boxes would hold in moisture in that kind of setting. What about emptying into ammo cans (keeping the cans off the ground as well) and then adding desiccant packs to those? Rotate the desiccant's every couples months and I would think you would be fine.

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Joined: 9/1/12

When I consider some of the nasty conditions we stored ammo in downrange (eg. Conex out by the flight line in the blazing sun for months) and it still went bang?

As long as you control for humidity in some way, I’d say it’s fine.

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

Cool & Dry are best storage conditions.

I don't want to be THAT GUY, but my house is Cool and Dry, I have ammo cans and desiccant.

Seriously though, go with oversized ammo cans, such as 60mm ammo cans or 20mm or 40mm cans and put in lots of desiccant packets (BIG ones).   Leave space AROUND the ammo within the ammo can for air to circulate and moisture to escape.

Change out the desiccant packets every 3-6 months (recharge them, don't toss them) and all should be good.

~Will

 




 

 

   Anybody can blow something up, but to disarm anothers bomb, this is when talent, skill, bravery & LUCK will all determine "Success or Failure".  

 

Location: UTAH              Joined: 2003

HomoSepian posted:

When I consider some of the nasty conditions we stored ammo in downrange (eg. Conex out by the flight line in the blazing sun for months) and it still went bang?

As long as you control for humidity in some way, I’d say it’s fine.

Heat speeds up the nitrogen dioxide exudation and breakdown of the propellant.  (Losing the GOOD stuff, buildup of the BAD stuff)

Ammo doesn't store well in HOT and HUMID.  Even if its COOL and WET or HOT and DRY ammo won't perform as well over time (years).

Breakdown can be excessive acidic carbon in your weapon or BANG / BOOM in really bad cases (pun intended).

~Will

 




 

 

   Anybody can blow something up, but to disarm anothers bomb, this is when talent, skill, bravery & LUCK will all determine "Success or Failure".  

 

Location: UTAH              Joined: 2003

Follow up question - steel containers v. plastic?

Individually, Cabelas and Bass Pro have plastic ammo cans, which you can get cheap when they run a sale. Any different than the GI?

Group storage, would a Pelican be any better/worse than the steel tool box idea?

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

hile posted:

How do you recharge the desiccant packets?

Put em in the oven (even a toaster oven works).  It cooks the moisture out of them.

this presumes you have the aluminum packs.  The plastic ones, obviously, are not suitable for this,

“One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England,”  -George Orwell-

How long is long term?

I've shot stuff (rimfire, centerfire, shotshells) that I've had since the 80's that was only stored in the containers they came in.   Most have never been in what would be called a controlled environment and  under conditions of  high humidity.

I've been pretty amazed at the longevity.  I had the remainder of a case of rimfire that I saved because it was good stuff from the early '90's that I recently shot up.   I figured accuracy would have deteriorated but it still produced nice groups at 50yds and went bang.

With shotgun ammo I've noticed some holes/burn through at the folds of the crimp as if the plastic was weakened or brittle.

I've now started stashing ammo in cheap ice coolers to try to prevent as many temperature swings.

Now your mileage may vary.  But that's why you should carry a machete in the zombie apocalypse anyway.

IIRC, you can dry the desiccant on low in your oven. You just want to remove the moisture.

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

hile posted:

How do you recharge the desiccant packets?

https://sciencing.com/dry-desiccant-5939321.html

Silica gel, a granule form desiccant made from sodium silicate, absorbs moisture from the air to reduce the relative humidity to about 40 percent. Manufacturers of edible and non-edible products often include silica gel packets in their packaging to retard corrosion, mold and mildew. Free-flowing silica gel granules in canisters work in dehydrators for homes, hospitals and industry. You can dry silica gel packets or free-flowing silica gel in a standard oven, while you can dry free-flowing, color-changing silica gel in a microwave oven.

Spread free-flowing silica gel evenly in a shallow Pyrex dish. Place silica gel packets in the dish so they do not touch each other.

Place the dish in an oven. You can dry color-changing silica gel in a 900-watt microwave oven. The gel is blue when it is dry and pink when it is saturated. You only need dry it if it is pink.

Heat free-flowing silica gel at 300-degrees Fahrenheit for one-and-a-half hours per liter (about a quart dry measure or 30 ounces by weight). Heat packets at exactly 245-degrees Fahrenheit for 24 hours. Use an oven thermometer to ensure the temperature does not go over 300-degrees for the free-flowing, or over 245-degrees for the packets. For the color-changing silica gel, heat it at 900 watts in three-minute bursts in the microwave until it turns blue.

Warning

  1. Do not go over 300-degrees in the standard oven or 900-watts in a microwave. You will damage the silica gel and it will lose its absorbency.
  2. Heating the packets over 245-degrees will damage the packaging.

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

When ammo starts going BAD it starts by not having complete combustion and leaving a very acidic residue in ones weapon.  This is especially bad for .22LR as these are notoriously dirty weapons/cartridges and the metal is less robust - generally.

DI AR's are very prone to damage from degraded ammunition as well, as the acidic residue accumulates on the various metal parts, and starts galvanic action, meaning the electrical degradation of metallic structures due to the presence of an acid and differing electrical potential in metals (aluminum grades and different steels).

There has been a lot of discussion about the CLEANLINESS of weapons, and I don't dispute the functioning of a CLEAN versus DIRTY weapon.  However, CHEAPER ammo generally has a poorer powder in it.  If that ammo is also stored poorly, that can leave more corrosive residues in weapons and thusly make these weapons more prone to damage than a dirty weapon shot with good ammo, that has been stored well.

Does that make sense?

 

 

Linz posted:
Wild_Willie posted:
 

60mm are the doubly deep .50 cal tins?

 

Yes.  The US/NATO designation is PA-60 and PA-70 ammunition boxes.

~Will

 




 

 

   Anybody can blow something up, but to disarm anothers bomb, this is when talent, skill, bravery & LUCK will all determine "Success or Failure".  

 

Location: UTAH              Joined: 2003

Hmmmmm...I learned to shoot on vast amounts of .303 Brit (MF, Kynoch) that was close to 65 years old- had some split necks (Hg embrittlement?) but the projectiles were going where they supposed to go.

To date I've been putting two tabs each of desiccant & anti-oxidant (small capsules- got them from a food packaging supplier) into M1 & M2 tins when cold & dry (we don't get hot/dry here): not enough?

Linz posted:

Hmmmmm...I learned to shoot on vast amounts of .303 Brit (MF, Kynoch) that was close to 65 years old- had some split necks (Hg embrittlement?) but the projectiles were going where they supposed to go.

To date I've been putting two tabs each of desiccant & anti-oxidant (small capsules- got them from a food packaging supplier) into M1 & M2 tins when cold & dry (we don't get hot/dry here): not enough?

I have no idea about anti-oxidants.  I know the U.S. military doesn't worry about anti-oxidants as the breakdown products don't rely on oxygen.  Any desiccant is a good start, but I don't know the quantities of grams to bullets.  I have reused desiccant that was being disposed of and knew enough to reuse it instead of shoving it into a landfill.  Smaller amounts I would just rotate with fresher stuff in a humid environment.  If its cool & dry where you are at its probably good.

 

 

I don't think that split necks would be from mercurial embrittlement, as there isn't much mercury in that spot.  Probably more likely to galvanic action.  Or more solids being suspended during the combustion process (SMOKEY?).

SOME of the older powders were and are VERY stable.  Not as high velocity, but, more stable and were made very crudely.

The newer powders are more problematic with exudation and destabilization.

Especially true with pistol powders that are double base (Nitroglycerin & Nitrocellulose).

When we get into triple base powders, or powders in larger quantities (1# +) , the exudation and breakdown process can become self-sustaining and instead of YEARS can be MONTHS.

But again, its mainly the underreacted residue that is acidic.  Some of the older or more unstable powders are more smokey though, and yeah that smoke (which are solids suspended in the air) frees up the acidic particles when in contact with water (lungs, eyes, etc).  I particularly LOVE that in DEADPOOL.  Let the dumbasses breathe in that smoke!

~Will

 




 

 

   Anybody can blow something up, but to disarm anothers bomb, this is when talent, skill, bravery & LUCK will all determine "Success or Failure".  

 

Location: UTAH              Joined: 2003

I just started using Tupperware type containers with silicon o ring to store shotgun and 22lr rounds. I put desiccant packs in those containers then store those Tupperware type containers with ammo inside a mil ammo can with more desiccant. The containers take up a lot of room so you may have to buy bigger ammo cans or more cans. 

your area may vary but I get Tupperware type containers cheap at the Asian stores near me. I also use those containers for first/aide trauma kits too. 

I've been using the MTM Ammo crates to store ammo that isn't in surplus ammo cans.   The MTM crates come in different sizes are plastic and have an o-ring on the lid.

________________________________________________________________

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Joined: 1/15/13           Location:  PACNORWEST

So I have my ammo stored in .30 cal ammo cans in my garage. Some of it is a couple of years old - should I be concerned?

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I've been falling so long it's like gravity's gone & I'm just floating...

Last  year I found a box of gun show reloads, bought in 1986. Stored in a GI ammo can with small desiccant  squares.  So 20 years in CA at 3 different places, then 11 years in NV at 2 homes and a storage unit. Shot fine. Even  40 year old GI .30 carbine ammo that was not stored well at all fired fine.

Dave

"Keep that cheap, wail'n slut quiet!" A.J. Maggott

Halfneck posted:

So I have my ammo stored in .30 cal ammo cans in my garage. Some of it is a couple of years old - should I be concerned?

Not knowing what area you live....I would say put the ammo cans above ground and drop some desiccant packs into the cans....that would be hell of a good start if you haven't done that already

Wild_Willie posted:
Linz posted:

Hmmmmm...I learned to shoot on vast amounts of .303 Brit (MF, Kynoch) that was close to 65 years old- had some split necks (Hg embrittlement?) but the projectiles were going where they supposed to go.

To date I've been putting two tabs each of desiccant & anti-oxidant (small capsules- got them from a food packaging supplier) into M1 & M2 tins when cold & dry (we don't get hot/dry here): not enough?

I have no idea about anti-oxidants.  I know the U.S. military doesn't worry about anti-oxidants as the breakdown products don't rely on oxygen.  Any desiccant is a good start, but I don't know the quantities of grams to bullets.  I have reused desiccant that was being disposed of and knew enough to reuse it instead of shoving it into a landfill.  Smaller amounts I would just rotate with fresher stuff in a humid environment.  If its cool & dry where you are at its probably good.

 

 

I don't think that split necks would be from mercurial embrittlement, as there isn't much mercury in that spot.  Probably more likely to galvanic action.  Or more solids being suspended during the combustion process (SMOKEY?).

SOME of the older powders were and are VERY stable.  Not as high velocity, but, more stable and were made very crudely.

The newer powders are more problematic with exudation and destabilization.

Especially true with pistol powders that are double base (Nitroglycerin & Nitrocellulose).

When we get into triple base powders, or powders in larger quantities (1# +) , the exudation and breakdown process can become self-sustaining and instead of YEARS can be MONTHS.

But again, its mainly the underreacted residue that is acidic.  Some of the older or more unstable powders are more smokey though, and yeah that smoke (which are solids suspended in the air) frees up the acidic particles when in contact with water (lungs, eyes, etc).  I particularly LOVE that in DEADPOOL.  Let the dumbasses breathe in that smoke!

Thanks.  It was my assumption that O2 was not welcome in storage environments & it cost bugger all.  Might have to up the desiccants. 

The 7.7x56mm embrittlement supposedly came from Hg  contaminants from the primer & was more pronounced in the older rounds.  Propellant was a bundle of rods- Cordite?  The cases were not annealed so that might be a factor.

"When we get into triple base powders, or powders in larger quantities"  Ha- sounds like you are talking about the Mulwex/ADI propellants.  Some (most?) of their their L2A2 7.62x51mm Ball from the 1970's (loaded with AR2201) now has clumpy propellant that smells a bit vinegary while that yuge batch of 1968 MEN 7.62x51mm Ball I bought way back when looks & shoots fine.

I've had good luck with ammo cans that were filed on days with lower humidity. I toss some desiccant packs in for good measure. The thing I stress is to late the outside of the can so you don't have to open them to see what is actually inside. 

I prefer to keep my ammunition in a climate controlled environment. But I was forced to pack my ammo away in a storage garage for about three years while going through divorce. I experienced zero issues due to the temperature extremes. 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Wild_Willie posted:

 

 

Linz posted:
Wild_Willie posted:
 

60mm are the doubly deep .50 cal tins?

 

Yes.  The US/NATO designation is PA-60 and PA-70 ammunition boxes.

Thanks.

They are brilliant for 7.62x51mm link in fixed positions or off tripods.

A couple years ago, I liberated several thousand rounds of .308 from a rather dry and hot environment.  Think below sea level.  Think of the hottest place in the lower 48.

This .308 ammo was stored in a plywood shed, in it's original cardboard boxes.  I would guess the ammo was more than 10 years but less than 20 years old.  It was a mix of SMK and Barnes stuff.

I gave it to my co-workers who shoot precision .308, and they told me that it functioned exactly like new factory ammo.

Carboards have been mentioned...but bandoleers (both old timey Commonwealth & US synthetic) are what I like to store tinned SAA in.

Any additional considerations?

Had one batch develop verdigris where in contact with the cotton...despite directly transferring the M80 into the bandoleers the Mk7 had exited & using gloves.

I've been wondering about this and intending to ask the hive here this question for sometime myself.  

I have quite a bit of ammo stored in my shop, which is a uninsulated metal building.   I really don't have much choice due to space considerations.  I've walked in there in the summer and seen temps of 140 or so.  It's been worrying me some.  I know a CONEX in Iraq can get quite toasty, but I've been wondering about longer term (20+ years) storage.  I may dump a lot of it into sealed 5 gallon buckets since I can access those fairly easily and seal them up that way.....

Of greater concern to me right now is physical security.  Right now I have some old school lockers with padlocks on them, about 6 steps away from the grinders, saws, cutting torch, etc.    I've had some ideas bouncing around in my head about more secure storage cabinets, etc.  Hard to be really secure  when a pretty complete set of entry tools is right there.  

*******

Joined 08/26/03   Location:  Southern Oklahoma

I used to commercially reload and found storing ammo in 50 cal metal ammo cans was the best for me. The cans were small enough I didn't break my back picking  them up and they were sealed against the elements. I also like the 30 cans too all the others are just too heavy filled.  I would love to have a nice cool bunker but that ain't going to happen. So they are stored in and insulated shed which can get pretty warm. 

How long can ammo be kept. The oldest I have shot was 45 cal with a 1918 headstamp from 1911 magazines stored on a shelf at my aunts house these all shot with no problem. The next oldest was 1933 45 acp and none of them worked, don't know how they were stored.  I used to say 30 years factory and 20 years reloaded but now it is more like 50 and 40. In another ten years I'll add to that. I do shot 22 LR from the 50s and 60s without any issues except an occasional failure to fire.

 

 

 

My old agency used a surplus conex as a range house for at least 16 years.  A small ceramic heater kept it kinda/sorta above freezing in the winter.  It was an oven in the summer.  The last five years it developed a leak in its roof. 

We kept a supply of training ammo in that conex as needed but it also accumulated the detritus that you just don’t want to throw away.  Commercial .38 reloads that were over 20 years old, 7.62x39mm from the 80’s,  a smorgasbord of shotgun shells some over 10 years old.   KMart quit carrying pistol ammo @2000 and donated the remainder to us.   While we found some rare corrosion, I don’t remember any miss-fires due to bad ammo in that time period.   Modern ammo is actually pretty good stuff. 

I store mine at home mainly in .50 caliber ammo cans labeled with a gold or silver Sharpie.  Once emptied most gun solvent will erase the ink.  I’m also using the plastic .30 caliber sized cans from Cabelas or Walmart. They aren’t as durable but seem to seal well enough while stacked.  If heavily loaded the lid will flex and open the rubber seal when you pick them up by the handle.   Good enough for range or match reloads. 

"Clean, Cool, Dry" That's the mantra for storage of anything you care about. If you can keep the relative humidity below 50%, (ideally at or below 35% RH) any of your items will last much longer. You can achieve that lower RH level through desiccants, climate controlled spaces or open-air climate. That's one of the reasons that aircraft boneyards are in the desert. Corrosion is one of the biggest problems I see that causes long-term storage ammunition failures. 

One of the key things to know in storage is how the packaging materials will break down over time. The packaging breakdown will give you a nice barometer or health indicator of the contents. Ammunition typically comes packaged in cardboard boxes. Cardboard breaks down in a pretty predictable manner. At 50% RH, regular cardboard only maintains 80% of its stacking strength. At 90% RH, it's down to 40% of its stacking strength. If you stack your ammo so there is sufficient airflow around each box and keep it shaded and dry'ish it'll last for a while. (opt for mesh shelves over flat, etc)  If the boxes are getting mushy and crappy you need to shoot it. This method works well enough for your working stash. If you're trying to put ammo away long term you need to invest in a better system. 

A cheap version of ammo storage might look a lot like food storage. Completely sealing the ammunition from the environment with desiccants or O2 absorbers will help to prevent corrosion. You can store those packs in ammo cans or buckets that'll let you stack them up or transport them. Ammo is heavy though so don't get crazy. 

Heat and cold won't have much of an effect on military grade ammunition. If you're storing ammo long term it makes sense to buy stuff that was manufactured to a MIL-STD or MILSPEC. Buying seconds or something without real QA traceability could invite problems if it gets old. In the last couple of months I was part of some DOD gun testing where the ammo we shot was from a lot that was condemned in WWII. We pulled it from the stocks and shot it because it was free. Even ammunition from that long ago works very well if it's been stored properly.  

Malpaso posted:

Follow up question - steel containers v. plastic?

Individually, Cabelas and Bass Pro have plastic ammo cans, which you can get cheap when they run a sale. Any different than the GI?

Group storage, would a Pelican be any better/worse than the steel tool box idea?

The Plano and MTM plastic ammo cans don’t seal like military ammo cans. They have a rubber o-ring but are usually described as “water resistant.” I personally like them but use them to store magazines and accessories. I store ammo in GI metal cans with desiccant packets.

Pelican cases are different. I believe many of them are rated as waterproof. However, they are a lot more expensive than GI cans, and often heavier, so I personally wouldn’t use them for ammo. I think Pelican cases shine in the transportation role, when you’re moving valuable or delicate equipment around that might get dropped or bounced around. Maybe for transporting or storing loaded mags of self defense ammo, like as part of a set of bug out gear.

My $0.02...

extreme heat and moisture is what you want to avoid.  

Swim around a few prepper sites.   They have a good handle on this. 

Ammo cans are great - 50cal or 40mm for bulk but they are expensive and can corrode     

Plastic ammo cans from mtm or Plano should be fine and cheaper   

Anything air tight    Think good Tupperware, food containers like Costco size jars for pretzels, 5gallon paint buckets.   Double or triple sealed plastic bags.  As long as it seals air    

Desicants - uline  is an industrial supply catalog    You can buy a ton cheap   Use more than you think   You need and swap them based on how often you open the container   

Start dry - put the ammo and containers in a small space with a dehumidifier and crank it up to 11  for a while   Until they are bone dry   

Think about lining that toolbox with insulation if you think extreme heat is an issue    Styrofoam or sheathing and some duct tape to make it a improvised cooler to regulate temps   

I store my offsite contingency stuff in a basement in the northeast    Not too dry but the temperature is moderate year round.  Long term storage stuff is in original boxes in serving size groupings   - 250 rounds of 9mm for example    That has a handful of descents and goes in a garbage bag which is doubled and tripled over on it self with duct tape   Another bag and more tape    I stack them up in a chest that doesn’t look like it holds ammo and put some stuff on top of it to obscure the visual signature   

My stuff that gets used more regularly goes into ammo cans and airtight plastic containers   Where it is more accessible   I throw in more silica desicants every time I open it up   

Lastly -check laws.   Some states are getting stupid with ammo storage requirements.  You may need to have it locked either now or in the future.  

_______________________ Front Toward Enemy

This may sound kinda weird, but what about using a food sealer to make something like a battle pack?

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

X-ray Dave posted:

Geronimo, could you elaborate on the condemned WW2 ammo ?   Caliber, why is was condemned back them and where it's been all this time.

Thanks,   Dave

The stuff we shot most recently was .50 caliber ammunition that had been pulled from service due to excessive failures. It shot super dirty and split some cases but it was free.

Whenever anyone in DOD has ammunition malfunctions there is a report that is supposed to be generated. Enough ammunition malfunction reports will get an entire lot of ammunition pulled and segregated. That ammo may be designated for certain things like training or test use only if it passes a reinspection. If it fails a reinspection it is supposed to be disposed of. That hasn't always happened over time for whatever reason. There is literally tons of ammunition from WWII on that is still sitting in bunkers all over the world. When we do testing for new stuff for DOD, we always ask for free ammo. It's better to take the chance on shooting shitty ammunition than to have to buy new ammo at several dollars per round when you're going to shoot a couple hundred thousand rounds. If it's a test where the ammunition actually matters you'll obviously be using qualified ammunition but for just getting service life info pretty much anything will do. 

One of the problems with buying "surplus" ammunition is that it may have been from a lot that was pulled from service due to malfunctions or it failed the basic qualification or lot acceptance tests. That's why you'll see guys who shoot surplus M855 or M193 at a class with no issues and some other dude is blowing primers and dealing with bullshit all day. If you want good performance you can count on I'd stick to name brand ammo like Black Hills and then test fire amounts from that lot yourself.  

yakc130 posted:

This may sound kinda weird, but what about using a food sealer to make something like a battle pack?

You beat me to this question.  I was cutting open a vacuum sealed pork roast last night and remembered this thread.

We do a lot of bulk shopping at Costco and vacuum seal meat in smaller portions.  I have one of the smaller vacuum sealers from a company called Vacmaster.  Their larger version is a chamber sealer and is pretty efficient.  This might be a good reason to upgrade. 

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