Modifying the '95 Pattern Windproof Smock

OK, I wanted to show "A" way of setting up a windproof smock.  The Soldier '95 pattern smock is relatively cheap and available so it makes a good starting point.  But it's needs some work, IMHO, so here's one way of going about it.  Everything you see here was done on a single feed industrial, with no. 69 thread, and a #23 needle.  

The first thing that comes to mind on a Brit smock is the zip.  Why they insist on doing it bitch style is beyond me.  But it's easily fixable.  So a #10 YKK zip is installed, with the pull on the right side.  I back it up with binding tape to make the joint stronger, but you could probably get by without it.  Also, I cut the Velcro down to 1" squares, which I think is a good balance between staying put and getting them open.  

   

On the top the zip goes all the way up to the collar/storm flap on the hood.  The binding tape is folded over here and triple stitched.

On the bottom, I sew down the tail, right to the end, instead of leaving a small tail loose like the issue smock.  I think it's just easier to zip up this way, in the cold with gloves on.  Again the tape is folded under and triple sewn on the ends.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Original Post

Next we'll take a look at the hood.  Issue Brit smocks have had some interesting shapes to them.  They must have some pointy-headed cretins in the ranks, because the hood is basically a big cone.  So you can fix that, by separating the two layers, creating a new, rounded seam, cutting off the pointy top, and sewing it back together.  While you're at it, you might as well add a small visor in front, and replace the drawstring with bungee and cord locks.

Another shot from the side.  The hood was also cut down slightly in front, and new visor added, which gives pro from rain but doesn't obstruct vison as much.

Next we tackled the cuffs.  I like something that is easy to use, when removing and putting on gloves, so I use a binding tape tunnel and shock cord.  A piece of 1" webbing with a grommet is used to take the strain off the tape.  You could probably get away without it.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Next we'll take a look at the waist and skirt drawstrings.  The Brits use regular "shoe lace", with internal breaks in the tunnels for the waist.  I used a continuous piece of 1" binding tape with shock cord and cord locks.  The locks are just short of the zip so they don't interfere with the pull.

I used the existing tunnel for the skirt, just adding cord and locks.  If you look close, you can also see where I removed those goofy hand warmer packets and sewed the pass-through opening shut.  The felt lining absorbed water and added weight when wet.  So they were shit-canned. 

Also the issue mesh pockets were replaced with sturdier mesh that doesn't fray with use.  The existing pockets were cut out (along with the yoke reinforcement up top), and new pockets simply taped and sewn in.  The pass-through zips outside remain the same.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

On pockets.  I know this is heresy to some, but I replace the (exposed) Canadian buttons with Velcro.  If you look at the issue shoulder pockets, you can see the pattern I used.

So the top flaps were cut down and Velcro squares added.

Notice how the pocket extends up onto the top flap and folds over for secure closure.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

So again, "A" way of doing it.  It isn't as ally as a Jay Jay's, Arktis, or SASS, but it works pretty damn good.

I really like the windproof smock concept, as a light, single outer layer which can be tailored to conditions by adding subtracting layers underneath it as required.  This gives you much more versatility as compared to multiple layer jackets, with sewn-in insulation and WP layers.  Also as a tactical consideration, the smock provides better camo, especially when wet, as opposed to hard shells.  It is quieter with less sheen, especially under NIR.  So for things like close target recce it is a preferred garment.  

To waterproof it, you simply add a single layer WP shell underneath it, like the Thunder Ledge or Arktis jacket (and trou).  For insulation, wind shirt, gridded fleece on the move, or puffy suit when stationary.  By using a single outer layer, only the smock needs to be camo'd, thereby cutting down on so many expensive camo layers.  Single earth-tone colors can be used for all other layers.

The Brits (and others) have been doing this for years, instead of insisting on each layer being camo'd and/or worn on the outside.  It just makes sense to me as well.       

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

I have a windproof smock I bought through an add in SOF magazine around 1980. My mods are just adding cuffs in the sleeves. I did add zippers to the two small pockets on the inside back but removed them along with a waist cord. I always wondered about the bitch zipper LOL. Like you said you can keep alot of level 1 stuff with you all the time.

Joined  4/5/03  Location Maine

Yeah as an added bonus, you can keep a bunch of shit on you, versus the belt kit or ruck.  The shoulder pockets are especially good for this purpose.   Small E&E and medical kits can be carried here.  The pass-through chest pockets are nice for maps, gloves, watch cap, etc.  Front chest pockets are the office: notebook, pen, and flashlight on one side; compass, pace beads on the other.  Waist pockets are good for over-mitts, windshirt or other thin layers, or even some snacks.

The shock cord cuffs are inspired by the old sewn in elastic cuffs.

I don't have the old "poacher" pockets on this smock, but also good for additional clothing layers that may be coming on n off as you travel.       

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Was going to ask about the poacher pocket.  Seems to be the final piece for complete utility. 

Also, do you like a smock cut longer in the rear, or straight around the top of the thigh?  Was thinking about when bent over, or seated or to help keep wind/blowing rain/snow out, like the M51 fishtail parka.

Tankersteve

In Yorktown, VA.          Joined August 2008

Gov't Civilian, after retiring from active duty in 2015. 

 

'One's own open sore never smells.'  - Haitian proverb

Yeah Brigade Quartermasters used to sell a Brit style Gortex suit that was designed to be worn under the parka or windproof smock.  Arktis still sells something similar (and probably made the BQ suit) since guys over there do this all the time.  I use a Red Ledge "Thunder Light" jacket and trou, which is a very light, one-layer WP system, not much thicker than a windshirt and trou, which works nicely under the smock and combat trousers.  They have been extensively tested on combat deployments by SF dudes, which is where I found out about them.  Very light and packable as opposed to issue gtx stuff.  They are very reasonably priced, especially when compared to Gucci stuff that costs hundreds of dollars.   

This smock is already spoken for.  Will be sending it out to a buddy this week for his testing.

Yeah I just like the concept of having a single outer layer, which is camo'd for visual and NIR, doesn't glint in rain, or make noise when busting bush.  I'm not surprised this concept is being re-visited.      

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

On the skirt cut, the issue smock is already cut a little longer than we used to have on our jackets, like the M-65.  So you're already there to begin with, and the shock cord skirt draws it in when windy.  If this is an issue I'd go with a bib-style trou.  

Poacher pockets are legit, I just didn't add them on this smock.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

I'm surprised nobody busted my nuts for shit-canning the Canadian buttons.  I really love them, but I figured for cold weather ops, with gloves and mitts, this might be the easiest way to get in and out of them.  Also wanted to streamline the top flaps a little bit.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Hey cool it's pretty much your size, I'm swimming in it.  Like to see whatcha think about it.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

The “Stealth Suit” was/is pretty common in Canada for wear under the camo shirt in warmer weather. Simple goretex jacket and trouser in either greenish or blackish  

I wore a puffy, a stealth jacket and a PCS smock hunting this year in heavy wet snow. You can see the stealth suit top under my smock Worked great. 

Typically I carry my tags/licenses/pen/compass in my chest pockets, light toque, glove liners, neck gaiter etc in the lower pockets, and usually a clif bar or two  4A3DC9E0-B172-4641-85BC-2BF94A5C1DF9

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-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

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Photos (1)

Here's the system I use with it.  First the Sekri L1 zip-top.

This is my go-to base layer for about 50 deg and lower.  

Next up the Propper L4 Windshirt.

Incredibly warm for it's weight, especially on the move.  Worn right over the base layer.

Next the Sekri L2 Gridded Fleece.

This sucker is really warm but also really breathable.  Wear without windshirt when you're really humping it.  Wear windshirt over it to shut airflow down.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Next up the WP layer.  Here is the Redledge Thunder Light parka.

This is an older model in "taupe" (yeah looks a lot like OD green to me too).  This worn right over base layer, such L1 or L2 layer, and underneath smock.  

Here's a pic of the inside.  Notice single layer, no liner, etc.  and taped seams.  

 

Here's the trou,  They run small so size up.  I usually wear medium trou and these older trou are XL.  Hopefully they have adjusted this by now.  These fit nicely under regular cammies or L5 soft shell trou.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

So yeah there's the whole system.  Was going to start another thread but it kinda all runs together.  Only thing not shown is happy suit, but that's basically a stationary item.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Also the Arktis A310 jacket, and C312 trou is nicer version of a WP layer worn under the smock.  (arktisusa.com)

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

The Redledge stuff is single layer water proof stuff.  It will keep you dry, especially when layered underneath the smock.  But it doesn't breathe all that much.  Best used when it's pissing down rain, as opposed to windy, drizzly stuff, which is best handled by the smock alone.  You're gonna get wet, one way or the other.  

It's a step up from just urethane coated stuff, as the material is supposed to breathe somewhat, but like any WP layer, it's gonna be muggy in there.  Is also much lighter and packable than old GI urethane stuff (including early PCU L6).  

It might be a toss-up for some between PCU or ECWS gen III L6 stuff, and something like the Redledge.  The Redledge Thunderlight is certainly lighter, and packs down smaller.  Depends on how much it rains in your AO; how hard, how often, etc.  If your L6 parka and trou become your go-to layers, as opposed to L5 softshells (or smock), then I might pack them instead.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

The Redledge Thunderlight is a ripstop nylon taffeta with a "waterproof breathable" coating.  So it's not a separate gortex membrane with multiple layers over and under it.  So it's probably not as durable as  2-3 layer gtx jackets but it's not designed to be.  It's basically an expendable jacket that you use and abuse.  At 55 bucks, you can afford to buy several, or one every year.  When worn under a smock, as opposed to a stand-alone outer layer, you basically provide the other layers yourself.  Think of it as a (removable) liner to your smock.  

As far as water proof goes, I've worn it around the Carolinas in rainy weather and it held up just fine.  No leaks or weird shit, like seam-sealing drying up or whatever.  Gets kinda hot when moving hard, but what doesn't.  I think Redledge is one of the great un-discovered gems of our time.   I've had four of them in about 10 year's time.  So they last about two seasons of heavy use.  Probably a lot more with casual use.          

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Eh, lookin good up there Canuck.  I also have some lighter-weight puffy jackets/vests for really cold weather, so sure, you can add those into the mix.      

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

We run a very similar system... Mine is as follows

TOP

Base layer - Light 150 or 200 weight Merino, Mid - either an Arcteryx Naga or Rho top, or an Atom LT or similar light puffy, then a Stealth Jacket, then my smock 

On the legs - 150 weight merino, Stealth pants (sometimes) and windproof trousers, with a pair of OR Gaiters over top. If find I don't wear the stealth pants too often.

In summer, If its raining, I typically just wear a goretex hardshell over a base layer, in fall/winter, is when I wear the smock system. Or, I bring the stealth jacket/pants as an emergency layer/windshirt. If its sunny and lovely, I just bring an windshirt/pant along just in case.

the Windproof trousers are really awesome, gotta say. pushing through heavy wet bush, snow, etc, and the outside was wet, however the inner side was just slightly damp, with no dampness into my base layer. Big fan, other than the goofy sizing and available sizes.

I'd love to get the hood on my smock modified. the cone look is goofy as hell.

 

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-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

The Redledge reminds me of first gen SF-issue Gore-Tex circa 1983-85.  I don't remember who made it, but it was in an outrageous emerald green that pissed off 82nd First Sergeants and Sergeants Major whenever a relaxed grooming standards SF long hair in un-marked OG-107s, desert boots, outrageous web gear, and unidentifiable small arms rucked by.

A friend of mine who went on into the Army Acquisition Corps asked me about SF gear.  I told him the magic equation was:  it has to be incredibly useful, weigh nothing, pack up small, fold out big, and be in a color not found in Army Reg 670-1.

Sinister posted:

The Redledge reminds me of first gen SF-issue Gore-Tex circa 1983-85.  I don't remember who made it, but it was in an outrageous emerald green that pissed off 82nd First Sergeants and Sergeants Major whenever a relaxed grooming standards SF long hair in un-marked OG-107s, desert boots, outrageous web gear, and unidentifiable small arms rucked by.

A friend of mine who went on into the Army Acquisition Corps asked me about SF gear.  I told him the magic equation was:  it has to be incredibly useful, weigh nothing, pack up small, fold out big, and be in a color not found in Army Reg 670-1.

That would have been glorious to behold.  

Did you have one of your 18D's use the opportunity to conduct some hip-pocket training?

"Gentlemen, take notice.  Observe the classic symptoms of a stroke.   Trembling in the limbs, quivering facial features, inability to form coherent speech patterns.  Yes, classic cerebrovascular incident."

FourNinerZero posted:

The “Stealth Suit” was/is pretty common in Canada for wear under the camo shirt in warmer weather. Simple goretex jacket and trouser in either greenish or blackish  

I wore a puffy, a stealth jacket and a PCS smock hunting this year in heavy wet snow. You can see the stealth suit top under my smock Worked great. 

Typically I carry my tags/licenses/pen/compass in my chest pockets, light toque, glove liners, neck gaiter etc in the lower pockets, and usually a clif bar or two  4A3DC9E0-B172-4641-85BC-2BF94A5C1DF9

A ha!  A pic of 49er0.  I was always curious if I knew you from my 10 yrs in Edmonton...  Nope, doesn't ring a bell.  Perhaps it's the facial hair throwing me off...

I went looking for the old smock thread to reference as it had lots of info and pics...alas.

I was always too cheap to buy a stealth suit.  I have one of Brian K's Drop Zone recce smocks (which I like) and our issue Gortex, CADPAT rain coat.  I hate to admit that after moving to BC, I found myself wearing the issue coat more - a.  for convenience and  b.  dealing with the near constant rain out here.  Both have plusses and minuses.  The issue shell is somewhat stiff and bulky, noisy etc.  Makes you sweat.  Troops complain the, when prone, the jacket causes water to flow forward into the air vent located just below the shoulders... My smock is not wp.  I don't have a wp layer (could use my civ Gortex, OD rain jacket, but it's not as good as stealth suit - this is where the one garment convenience thing comes in).  Stuff in the pockets gets wet and I'm lazy when it comes to zip locking every thing...  The smock is lighter, less bulky, wind proof-ish, somewhat water resistant and has lot's of great pockets/features etc.

The raincoat just wound up more convenient for standing around in the rain...with my hands in pockets...holding a coffee...but...that says more about the quality of "soldiering" I've been doing for the last dozen years.  Put it this way, an infantryman in a rifle section would be better off with smock/stealth combo, as he'll be "working" much harder.  There's also that whole "setting an example for the junior ranks by wearing issued stuff thing" although some mods to my smock made it a little more "bde SM proof".  In my company in Edmonton, before Gortex coat was issued, at least half the troops had smocks which I allowed to be worn.  Of course, that went on hold on combined arms exs where there  was a chance of a visit by Bde Command Team.  That stuff used to make them apoplectic!

All moot now since retirement.

"Now I'm old and I'm nervous

and cast from the service

and all I deserve is a shilling a day..." - Kipling

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

I have two DZ smocks, in TW and AR cadpat. 

In fall it replaced my combat shirt, in all but the most brutal if winter I wore it over Arcteryx puffy’s and such. 

Overseas it got worn over my armour as load carriage under my webbing on occasion. 

Never wore the issued rain coat, mostly just my arcteryx alpha jacket. I had the luck of working in some very permissive and reasonable units when it came to gear.  In the field anyway, Garrison was/is a different ballgame. 

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-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

Diz posted:

I'm surprised nobody busted my nuts for shit-canning the Canadian buttons.  I really love them, but I figured for cold weather ops, with gloves and mitts, this might be the easiest way to get in and out of them.  Also wanted to streamline the top flaps a little bit.  

OK.

In a past millennium I thought the buttons were cool.  When I had the chance & $, I ordered one in OD- with all the works & jerks: pocket D rings, interior pockets...and taped large buttons.  With the pockets & the poachers in particular, some of the slivering activities could be done with out webbing. 

So I tried it.  Tools, consumables & water went well.  The big buttons were a bust.  Every bit of wire, thin cord or vine found them.  One even got jammed in a crack or rock gap and had to carefully cut off.

libertarian45 posted:
FourNinerZero posted:
 

A ha!  A pic of 49er0.  I was always curious if I knew you from my 10 yrs in Edmonton...  Nope, doesn't ring a bell.  Perhaps it's the facial hair throwing me off...

I went looking for the old smock thread to reference as it had lots of info and pics...alas.

I was always too cheap to buy a stealth suit.  I have one of Brian K's Drop Zone recce smocks (which I like)

You hear stories of DZ gear availability now and then.

Linz posted:
Diz posted:

 

OK.

In a past millennium I thought the buttons were cool.  When I had the chance & $, I ordered one in OD- with all the works & jerks: pocket D rings, interior pockets...and taped large buttons.  With the pockets & the poachers in particular, some of the slivering activities could be done with out webbing. 

So I tried it.  Tools, consumables & water went well.  The big buttons were a bust.  Every bit of wire, thin cord or vine found them.  One even got jammed in a crack or rock gap and had to carefully cut off.

A common problem that happened to me on numerous occasions was the button from the old parka back epaulette strap (can it still technically be called that if it's on the back vice the shoulder) hanging me up on the drying lines going in and out of an arctic tent...

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

Buttons gotta be covered, and be big. Sleeve pockets I like vertical zippers (ala Arcteryx Recce shirt or CPgear OTW shirts)

I wear my brit smock hunting, so non tactical but noise discipline is important. Ungulates are nervous critters in hunting season, and aint as dumb as they seem. Buttons win over velcro. 

Typically, for me, if im going into my smock pockets its to use an item needing dexterity (compass, pen) or removing or adding hand/neck layers (merino glove liner, neck gaiter) so I wouldn't be wearing mitts anyway  that would prevent opening and closing a button  

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

I picked up a DZ Smock for myself and one for the wife  back in the spring of 04 in non stocked (at the time) colors. Mine in tan, went to Baghdad with me and was used quite heavily vs the M65 my unit issued me. 

Location Texas.

 

"So what are you gonna do if we get hit on this trip?" "Me?, I'm going to shoot some good pics of you nuking their ass. You do your job, I'll do mine. If I have to do yours,(unless you're the medic) we're probably all screwed!" - Standard reply , from Desert Storm through Iraqi Freedom

Great discussion guys.  It's good to see folks that use these things pipe up and give us good tips of the trade.  

On SgtMaj's.  On behalf of soldiers and marines everywhere, I would just like to say "Chapeau" to all the SF dudes who spiked their BP's with their non-std kit.  Well done lads.

On buttons.  But they are so Ally.  But yeah, exposed buttons look magnificent on garrison troopers, not so good in the field.  I think 490 has it; covered Canadian buttons; big fat ones.  Crossfire did this on their smock and it makes sense.  On the gloves n mitts thing, yeah I should have said with just gloves on.  I like mitts on dummy cords, with contact gloves underneath, so I can pull them off, get into whatever, and go forth smartly.  I was thinking the Velcro would work well with the gloves still on.

On smock availability.  You can still get pretty good deals on used surplus smocks from Old Blighty (and occasionally Canada) on ebay.  The shipping isn't too bad either.  They are giving away the old DPM ones, and a bit more for the MTP stuff.  Most are later patterns with covered buttons, so there you are.  I can't imagine your local "cleaners/alterations" shop not being able to handle these mods; everyone I've ever seen has a good industrial machine perfectly capable of handling the work.  There are sizing charts out there to translate sizes.  A 180/104 is roughly a Large Long with a shit-ton of room for layering.   Make sure it's genuine surplus with MOD label.

SASS.  OOB as far as I know.  

DZ Gear.  Same same, which is a shame.  Really nice kit.   

Arktis still makes nice stuff.  Several different styles to choose from.  Just love that jungle shirt too.  Have to get that one of these days.  Still reasonably priced as compared to Gucci brands.

Jay Jay's.  Really nice kit.  Light weight like the old classic smocks, but made with the newer material, like the L5 softshells (which IMHO, are the grandsons of this smock).  Still might need some mods, like righthand zip, covered buttons, and shoulder pockets, but all n all, a great base to start from.

Crossfire.  Coming soon. New material and innovative construction techniques.  Round hood (!), covered buttons, shoulder pockets.  These guys have worn smocks before too.  In AusCam but OCP on next run (he said hopefully).  

Footnote:  AusCam is really growing on me.  

Then there are the usual suspects: Beyond Clothing, Patagonia, Arctyrex, Wild Things, etc. who make L5 "softshells" which let's face it, are direct descendants of the windproof smock.  Some of them have made Gucci smocks, in the classic pattern, but charge out the ass for them.  Which is neither here nor there, but it is a lot easier to kit up at 150 a pop, versus 400+.

Then you have PCU/ECWS stuff from ORC, Propper, etc, which are L5 softshells at a more reasonable price point.  Not exactly windproof smocks, in the classic sense, with all the pockets, but as far as layering goes, pretty damn close.  You can find these from time to time on ebay too.      

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

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