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I'll warn you up front.  This seems like a long post.  I read that we should not just post pics but actually talk about why we are running the gear and how it's performing.  So I'm trying to honor that.  If it's too much, just let me know.

This is my current war belt, Version 4.  This was more like an overhaul though than introducing some improvements to the previous "base system".  That base system was sold on the E&E and is long gone.  The war belt has been a work in progress, for about the past 3 years.  I started out with a double lined scuba belt, AustriAlpin buckles,  with some kydex double mag holders and a holster from TR_Holsters (Very solid kydex holster maker.)  But it didn't take long to discover that did not accomplish what I wanted in a war belt.  Initially I  wanted PALS webbing like my chest rigs had.   Makes sense right?  So  Version 2 was an HGSI Sure Grip. Plenty of PALS, but I didn't like how wide it was, it would ride up when I ran  a lot.  So did Version 3 which was a scaled down HGSI Slim Grip.  I liked the compactness initially, but I had issues keeping my pouches firmed up to the belt.  Could have ran zip ties, maybe should have, but I wanted to try another option.  I gathered some reliable intel from my sources and that's how I arrived at Version 4.   I did have some input from a friend who lived and breathed this stuff for many years while deployed as a SOCM.  He's a great resource when planning all my battle rattle out.

So let's get on with it.

1. Belt:  G-Code Operators belt.  Two piece belt. It has an inner belt with Velcro hook on the outside. I pulled off the metal ITW Nexus G-hook and replaced it with the ITW GTSR closures because I like the way it fastens, a very common fastener.   Any belt with hook Velcro will work with the outer belt, given similar sizing.  I have an old Oakley belt with Velcro hook and works well also.   The outer belt is slotted, which work really great for securing pouches.   This is really my preferred setup.  I like how the outer belt stays secured to the inner belt.  When running the Sure Grip or Slim Grip, after enough running and dropping on the ground, the war belt would ride up a little.  That would start causing issues with the distance of my pistol from my chest rig if I was wearing on.  When I first got the belt, I wished the inner belt was something I would be more prone to wear on a daily basis, but there's nothing fancy or pretty.  I'm good with that, but I recognize it would be nice to have an EDC type belt, where I could slap on my War Belt and be armed and loaded in seconds.   Well I actually had an old Oakley belt that had Velcro loop hook on the outside.  So that solved that problem.  Some days when I head out to the range, I just grab the belt and fasten it.  I don't have to swap out belts.  I could see the value in that for someone deployed who on QRF, needs to kit up quickly.  Grab the belt, fasten the cobra buckle and its locked onto your Oakley or whatever pants belt with velcro. .

Moving on to what's on the belt.

1. Overall picture:  War belt with Velcro inner belt w/ ITW GTSR buckles. (As shown in the insert pic.)   Moving left to right

War Belt

1. Carabiner to secure danglers (gloves, earpro, 6 pack of Shiner or any other purpose)

2. Tactical Tailor triple pistol mag pouch.  During the journey from V2 to V4, I tried a few different mag pouches.  I kept going back to Tactical Tailor. I did try some open top mag pouches, but found I didn't have a lot of time different in mag changes, with the open top bungee.  Also since my Glock mags have a sloped baseplate, the retention cord would often slip off when I was running around.  The last pouch I tried was the Emdom 6o4 pouch.  They call it the 6o4 pouch because it can hold 6 single stacks or 4 double stacks mags.  The problem I ran into was twofold.  One, it was a major pain in the ass to get 4 double stack mags loaded. There is a piece of cordura that separates the front and rear mags and I found often that 'divider' would get scrunched up and not allow the mag to be inserted quickly, it was definitely not a one hand operation.  Also, at least while new the mags did not release freely in the 6o4. I'm sure over time the fabric will stretch a little, but honestly, it didn't take me that long before I knew this was not the pouch I wanted.   I went with the TT 3 mag shingle and never looked back.   In spite of the popularity of open top pouches  and the high quality pouches like ESSTAC for example I chose to go with what I am most comfortable using and what secured my pouches best. I can fold the flap to the inside on one or two mags if I need fast mag change ability.  All three have KYWI inserts and so I can fold the flap in for rapid access and secure flaps later if moving in the dark or double-timing.

3.  T3 double M4 pouch on a Haley's Drop Panel.  This is a newer HGSI drop panel with the laser cut panel for PALS and incorporates two thigh straps.  This was a risky purchase because I normally do not care for drop legs.  But this isn't too far down my thigh (About pant pocket level) and the two straps really secure it to my leg and absolutely no flopping around.  It works, and it works very well. That's about all I can say.   I've done a lot of running drills with this belt on, and really no movement on the sub-load.  Normally if I had mag pouches on my kit they would be Tactical Tailor, or ESSTAC, but I couldn't get off the shelf what I wanted.  Two single M4 mag pouches in a row.  Most double shingles I found were double M4 mags and I did not want 4 fully loaded 30 rd mags on my thigh.  I already knew of T3, because I've used some of their gear already, specifcally ifak and GP pouches.T3 because they are one of the few reputable gear companies who make a single row M4 mag in a double pouch shingle config.  I had ran some T3 kit before - iFaks and such and knew they were Berry Compliant, owned by veteran.   Interesting tidbit about T3, they are actually located on Coronado.  Right on post with BUD/S and the West Coast SEAL Team.  It thought that was cool and spoke a lot about the company who provides a lot of kit to the military.

4.  Tactical Tailor dump pouch/SSE bag w/ shock cord closure - Current state, partial mag pouch,  Popcorn and Snickers bar pouch.  Zombies violate the DMZ, it's an SSE bag with the shock cord  w/ cord-lok closure.

 

You may wonder why I didn't mount two M4 mag pouches to my waistline, rather than using a sub-load.  I always want flexibility and adaptability with my gear.  I like that I have plenty of flexibility on my waist to modify and add to my belt as needed.  For example, if I needed to add a GP pouch for map section, compass, spare batteries and protein bars, or add a pouch for nods that I do not own, or even beef up with more ammo pouches, or even a more robust ifak/trauma, I have plenty of reachable real estate to make those mods.  With the DRG Malice Stabilizers, it's also  really easy to move pouches around. 

 

These slots do work to secure Molle straps or malice clips, although pouches w/ straps seem to secure more tightly.  To secure my pouches, I used Down Range Gear's Malice Clip Belt Stabilizer to secure my pouches to the belt while using the malice clips that came with the pouch.  I think that ESSTAC has a good solution, I've ordered some but as of yet, I have not used them.

Here is my solution for using malice clips with a war belt like I have. The trauma kit has one Down Range Gear malice clip stabilizer and on the right side of the pouch my own implementation using a thick 1" Velcro strap that I managed to get really locked in on itself.  It's had some field time, not a lot, but it seems sturdy and cost-wise was far cheaper than anything else.  The issue with using malice clips, alone is that they can  "roll" down on you so that the clip in slips inside the PALS. With my setup now that doesn't happen. I mainly wanted an alternative to buying an attaching mechanism and wanted to know if it was viable.  And...I can always use zip ties, but I want flexibility and modularity.

 

5. Coming around to the backside I have my  Tactical Tailor 1H Pouch.  The "H" is their horizontal implementation of this pouch.  It's designed as a "GP" (General Purpose) pouch, but works just as well as an ifak/trauma pouch.  I've got it stocked with the usual chest seals, ACE bandage, plastic tape, blood clotter, NPA, tourniquet and other necessary trauma items. (And a snickers bar)

6. Tactical Tailor Multi-tool Pouch with Leatherman

7.  McNet fixed blade.  I have several fixed blade knives, for SOG SEAL Pup, to Gerber, to ESEE.  I like the McNett because it's compact, it is sharpened and takes and edge and it's really thick and sturdy.  It's not really meant for me to get into a knife fight. If I have to pull that thing out to defend myself...well I'm in a whole lotta trouble and things are NOT looking good for the home team.  It's more of a tool than stab a guy in the heart.  Not that it couldn't do that - but that's just how I think.  You guys think that's whack, please square me away.  Personally, I do not want to get into a knife fight.  I'd personally just prefer a regular fight so I can bite someone's ear or nose off.  The McNett has a belt clip, but I used shock cord to further secure the knife.

 

Last and maybe the most important attachment to my War Belt is my holster.

8.  Safariland 6354 DO ALS holster in a G-Code RTI Optimal Drop platform.  The ALS line of holsters by Safariland are by far my favorite.  This is my 3rd.  I think they are maybe the best holster in the known universe.  I found it easier to develop the muscle memory around actuating the ALS to release the pistol than any other piece of gear I own.  Plus weapon retention is excellent.  I have the 6354 DO because I have an Trijicon RMR on my Glock.  So far there have been no issues with the 6354, I have not had to dremel it down as with earlier releases of this holster.  Initially my suppressor level sights drug just a hair, but I believe the holster is broken in better now.  Also, when I purchased this holster, I was using a TLR-1HL, but just this past week mounted the newer TLR-7 and am giving that a shot.  The RTI Optimal drop is another huge winner.  It may sound weird, but while I am ok with that subload on my thigh, I do not light drop leg holsters on my thigh.  Just do not like them.  This provided the perfect solution. It drops the firearm down enough so the plate carrier or chest rig is not interfering with my draw stroke.  I've been very impressed with this line of holsters.  On my others, the cordura has worn in places, but is still adhering well.

9.  Tourniquet fastened with a couple of parachute rubber bands.  I can rip off if needed.  I need another TQ that's easy access to my support hand. 

                                                                                                                                                        

Summary:  Overall this set up is working well.  It's a relatively lightweight setup - the lightest war belt I've used/built to date.  It's been working great so far,  primarily training, running drills, that sort of thing.  I do work on my muscle memory when I can't get out to the place I train at, but nothing is better than running through the mag changes in a course of fire.  I can't think of a complaint about any of it at this point.  The holster is very new as I just recently had my slide cut down for a RMR, but it's similar to the previous ALS holster I had.  So I've been spending a lot of time dry firing with it.  Getting used to the RDS and working on my draw stroke.    Then I will put some hard use work at the range, but I fully expect everything to function as designed.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

 

Additional pouches I could use, that I have in my spares bin:

 - Nalgene Water Pouch.   In my spare kit bin.

- Radio pouch. I have  some radio pouches, from a PRC-148  to smaller Baofeng type radios                                   

 - GP Pouch.  I have a few different GP type pouches.  TT makes a multipurpose pouch that mounts well and has a lot of storage but still a low profile. It's an outstanding pouch  and I mount them on my Camelbak and usually on my chest rigs.

- Ammo/Smoke pouches.  I can add some more AR or pistol, or add a couple of smoke pouches.     

I don't have a retention system or a weapon retention system.  I'm not an operator flying in a helo or Humvee.  So those seemed to be a waste of money.

That's my War Belt.  I hope I didn't go into too much detail. I can get a little carried away with this topic, so hopefully I'm at least operating within the spirit of the letter.

p.s. Upfront apologies for grammatical errors, in case there are some of "those" here.

Comments? Questions? Suggestions?           

Use universal mag pouches instead so I could use the war belt with a .308?  (Just in case no one says anything.)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

Original Post

One of a few comments I left out.  The DownRangeGear malice stabilizers really work well in this scenario because the backside as you see it, is the Velcro loop. So that attaches to the Velcro of the inner belt and overall adds to the security of the pouch. Chris @ DownRangeGear is a Marine veteran who does try to go above and beyond to provide good customer service. I've order a lot of buckles and webbing etc. from him because I like to try different things with my gear.

B0308 posted:

Well written and nice pics.  Sounds like you have refined it well to fit your mission/use.  Will go check out the McNet knife, probably cost me money. 

Thank you B0308.  Honestly, I was trying hard to get it finished, it was about 0300 and I can tell from my many mistakes. On the McNett fixed blade. I picked mine up from OPTactical, but I believe Jon stopped carrying that item. They are another really solid gear company. You can contact them, it's possible they may have one not on the inventory books.  

Get suspenders.  Especially if you add a radio and water to your belt.  You can get Vtac or other tactical brands, but some guys get Husky or similar carpentry style options from the hardware store and they work reasonably well.  Contractors spend a lot more time working, climbing, and crawling with weight hanging off their belts than we do.  They don't get to say it is too hot or too cold to train.  

Have you looked at the new USGI tourniquet pouches?  They are part of the IFAK II and are made by Sekri I believe. 

They are pretty nice and are a good way to keep your TQ out of the dirt and elements.  They can be mounted horizontally with velcro straps or vertically with MOLLE.  The pouch secures closed with velcro and a metal snap button.  There is a pull loop to grab that allows you to in snap the button and then the velcro completely opens up along the front.

Last edited by Community Member
sparky-kb posted:

Have you looked at the new USGI tourniquet pouches?  They are part of the IFAK II and are made by Sekri I believe. 

They are pretty nice and are a good way to keep your TQ out of the dirt and elements.  They can be mounted horizontally with velcro straps or vertically with MOLLE.  The pouch secures closed with velcro and a metal snap button.  There is a pull loop to grab that allows you to in snap the button and then the velcro completely opens up along the front.

Sparky,

Talk about late to the party....  Thanks, that's a good option  and I'm going to look into that.  Does it deploy pretty quickly?   I picked up a few of these to try from BFG, they call it "The Hammock" and it's working out ok.  It mounts to the very bottom of your malice clips, so it may be limited in how you can mount it.  I haven't tried it with my pouches that use webbing instead of malice clips, but it should still work.  Jur y is still out but, the TQ does deploy pretty quickly,  I'm just limited to where I can mount it.  It needs a 4 row malice clip to attach to. (like a double mag shingle, if that makes sense)

 

The Hammock

I've used both the IFAK II TQ holder and the BFG Hammock, both work well however as noted, the BFG is somewhat limited in how you can mount it (on the bottom of another pouch).  As an alternate to suspenders if that belt gets unstable I'd recommend any of several belt systems that have a hook and pile tape inner and a MOLLE outer: I have one from G Code (Warrior Poet Society also has one) and I have found to be amazingly stable even with a full kit on it. mine has 2x each handgun and rifle mags, a dump pouch, Safariland holster, TQ, BFG micro trauma kit, multitool and a knife yet it doesn't move no matter how I try.

Crazee357 posted:

I've used both the IFAK II TQ holder and the BFG Hammock, both work well however as noted, the BFG is somewhat limited in how you can mount it (on the bottom of another pouch).  As an alternate to suspenders if that belt gets unstable I'd recommend any of several belt systems that have a hook and pile tape inner and a MOLLE outer: I have one from G Code (Warrior Poet Society also has one) and I have found to be amazingly stable even with a full kit on it. mine has 2x each handgun and rifle mags, a dump pouch, Safariland holster, TQ, BFG micro trauma kit, multitool and a knife yet it doesn't move no matter how I try.

Yeah, I noted the same limitation on the hammock myself.   Most of my  gear uses molle/pals webbing (with some belt hardware on my war belt being the exception) so I can usually find a spot for the hammock even if I need to bridge two pouches as I did on one of my chest rigs that have TT Universal mag pouches.  I bridged two pouches and it works well but could present some issues if you're using belt mounting hardware.  I like G-Code, their Operators Belt is the belt I chose for my war belt and it's been gtg and it's seen quite a bit of use.  I am giving some suspenders a shot with it just to see how I like it, but overall it's pretty static and everything is working where it is.

I checked G-Code's website - is this the one you're referring to?  https://www.tacticalholsters.c...ct/tourniquet-pouch/

I couldn't find anything from Warrior Poet Soc regarding a TQ pouch/holder..

Thx!

Last edited by Community Member

There are a number of good/decent TQ pouches on the market. The main thing is to have your TQ in one. Having a TQ rubber banded to your gear is a good way to:

A. Lose your TQ when the rubber bands rot.

B. Have a damaged TQ when you need it most.

I have seen a lot of exposed carry TQs with the velcro rubbed flat or filled so full of lint that the hook won't close on the loop. I have seen some that have been worn so much the edges have rubbed all the way through the stitches. This is why I an not a huge fan of the 11-10 kydex TQ pouch.

If you can see the TQ in the pouch, it is not a great pouch. And if the TQ pouch is not marked as a TQ pouch or at the very least with a large distinct + on it, it is a lousy pouch.

You have about a minute of useful time to control a major femoral bleed. Take that into account when you consider ease of access, integrity of the TQ you are employing, security of the pouch, identity of the pouches contents and location of the TQ on body.

Also concern that TQs exposed to environment may have a higher failure rate according to a a 2011 article. 

BLUF

ABSTRACT We hypothesize that an anecdotally observed increase in tourniquet breakage and decrease in effi cacy may be secondary to environmental exposure during military deployment. This was a study comparing effi cacy and breakage of 166 Afghanistan-exposed tourniquets to 166 unexposed tourniquets. Afghanistan exposure was defi ned as tourniquet carriage by fi eld staff in the operational environment for approximately 6 months. In a controlled environ-ment in the United States, a previously exposed tourniquet was tested on one thigh of each subject, while an unexposed tourniquet was tested on the opposite thigh. We recorded tourniquet effi cacy (absence of distal pedal pulse for at least 30 seconds), breakage, and the number of turns required to stop the distal pedal pulse. A Wilcoxon sign-rank test was used to test differences between exposed and unexposed tourniquets. Tourniquets exposed to the environment broke more often (14/166 versus 0/166) and had decreased effi cacy (63% versus 91%; p < 0.001). Three turns were required for most tourniquets to be effi cacious. Environmental exposure of military tourniquets is associated with decreased effi cacy and increased breakage. In most cases, tourniquets require three turns to stop the distal lower extremity pulse.

 

https:// watermark (dot) silverchair (dot) com/milmed-d-11-00212.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAnQwggJwBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJhMIICXQIBADCCAlYGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMpdKT7pV9H1ffKRGoAgEQgIICJwiBGmdfKFBrh75BAeq6jTb92u98JuLa0newDwVhRTwz18lLcXbEejLtSHatyepSsTxBDO84gGGZYIQCOM91MX0zvAzbqjYtsr51nwHca1DJ-C6v1fUNPDx-xT2-_4p0jWv5kjyWAG0DHQRIu6lbOOIHBLlPXUoBMxdKyKJ3nJoTV64yzznxVSfuwiIrDCQRnvo9UedbRFYMZlJ2nCoYBZ2PBx0V2IIcmelhUFFoHWstLIuKj9EeSOUcCOQEH40sQTfdCsFqz38qTtGsMBj3VZ8CUKPbzSKVU-kZM3m4O6yGO5sJQjjVgt9UGqHd85_VNgiH8HUL4o6zu7NvXjKT2psA-KmUGcVwrOROn207tGjYg22a6eI79wNG0W5M3mU0pYfMfhtAdHwRhjaQ48YwHwiG45IwQDxPMBejYArDlKyGG_pjPAjOnoqDkrIVmunUdQmeKwKovPgBOiqM6vlL7nXWQhomD4rx8DNktCv9nXBL2mZfZQXJih2psAurEWLe3fSN1nYGBudZ8Ce4EfDgghyJUoW39eCQ3YDgvL32ZxYQsY1rqGVNosW7WUoWf1eJutZv_Ej7cJYaHDjvEBssQGTxmDMAM9UiESILyPHgAGUFt6yFPL1GDHQlBu022FnCooYRhSmq4PwqLRqKgkF-FbWEg5yoUHoPnDbHhl1-BtGUSVqKnKZSVbjG1vuN3UCHodrYLNlYOb1IoYMVFNGyYhq_YsWvmh-n

Last edited by Community Member

TQs.  I had to have a chat with my kid (a cherry 11C) about his mounting a TQ on his plate carrier with rubberbands, ala "cool guy operator" style.  I immediately ordered him a multicam, dedicted, enclosed TQ pouch for his issued CAT.  I told him to stop trying to look cool just because he saw a pic of some operator, operating with something set up for a VERY specific reason.  And, that just because a cool guy does it, it isn't necessarily correct or advisable.

Longeye posted:

There are a number of good/decent TQ pouches on the market. The main thing is to have your TQ in one. Having a TQ rubber banded to your gear is a good way to:

A. Lose your TQ when the rubber bands rot.

B. Have a damaged TQ when you need it most.

I have seen a lot of exposed carry TQs with the velcro rubbed flat or filled so full of lint that the hook won't close on the loop. I have seen some that have been worn so much the edges have rubbed all the way through the stitches. This is why I an not a huge fan of the 11-10 kydex TQ pouch.

If you can see the TQ in the pouch, it is not a great pouch. And if the TQ pouch is not marked as a TQ pouch or at the very least with a large distinct + on it, it is a lousy pouch.

You have about a minute of useful time to control a major femoral bleed. Take that into account when you consider ease of access, integrity of the TQ you are employing, security of the pouch, identity of the pouches contents and location of the TQ on body.

This was a good post, really informative.  I can see I didn't do my due diligence on the TQ.  While I have considered the potential issues of having my TQ exposed I just didn't really pursue that thought to a conclusion of "this is a really bad idea".  I considered access and one-handed deployment as my most critical factor.  That might be because periodically I do inspect the trauma items in my ifak mostly because it gets so flipping hot here and heat can cause issues or deterioration, especially with sensitive medical items.  As part of that, I do inspect my TQ's.   Now I can see there are more factors to consider than just my ability to access and deploy it one-handed.  By the way, initially, I misunderstood your post and thought you did like the Eleven-10 TQ holder and I was thinking, I hate that thing, it's a hard Kydex pouch, plus it has an open-top.  Strange he likes it. He must use that cheesy cover thing they have.  Then I re-read your post and got the "am not" part.  What can I say, it was late last night/early morning when I read it. It didn't take me long to figure out the rubber bands weren't that great of an idea.  Super easy to deploy but in spite of using good rubber bands - ones sent me by the company that services the DoD/mil contract for rubber bands on one of the parachutes maybe the T11 I think - but what I noticed was that in the Texas heat, and exposed to the elements those rubber bands didn't last long. They lost their elasticity and became really gummy and sticky.  So that quickly became a no-go.  To be perfectly honest, I have no idea why I used rubber bands in the first place because at that point I had been using shock cord and the push-button cord lock to secure TQ's to my chest rigs for the past several years.  I mount them on the sides of my TT universal mag pouches where they aren't as exposed to the elements and didn't take up a row or column of usable PALS.  Plus it's really fast to deploy.  I didn't so much notice dirt and crap affecting them because they sandwiched between two pouches and just didn't get dirty.  That one on my belt did though and I did notice the velcro hook getting packed with dirt, grass and whatever was on the ground, caliche clay, etc. etc.   That's when I went with the hammock.  I  see your point about having it completely covered, I just wonder if I would end up replacing one due to an expiration date before it got dirty/damaged from being stuffed in some elastic sleeve like a burrito having the critical parts covered.  North American makes a close top TQ pouch with a strap you pull to deploy and it looks like a solid pouch.   I've used one similar HGSI made and it wasn't exactly one-handed because if you jerk too hard on the strap the TQ popped out like a pop tart in a toaster.  Tactical Tailor also makes a closed top TQ pouch.  I'm pretty partial to TT, just because they are a "known quality" to me and they really have taken care of me over the years, doing some custom work for me. Their TQ pouch has elastic sides so it's not 100% covered, but that's probably better than shock cord and infinitely better than gooey rubber bands.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

jumpermed posted:

Also concern that TQs exposed to environment may have a higher failure rate according to a a 2011 article. 

BLUF

ABSTRACT We hypothesize that an anecdotally observed increase in tourniquet breakage and decrease in effi cacy may be secondary to environmental exposure during military deployment. This was a study comparing effi cacy and breakage of 166 Afghanistan-exposed tourniquets to 166 unexposed tourniquets. Afghanistan exposure was defi ned as tourniquet carriage by fi eld staff in the operational environment for approximately 6 months. In a controlled environ-ment in the United States, a previously exposed tourniquet was tested on one thigh of each subject, while an unexposed tourniquet was tested on the opposite thigh. We recorded tourniquet effi cacy (absence of distal pedal pulse for at least 30 seconds), breakage, and the number of turns required to stop the distal pedal pulse. A Wilcoxon sign-rank test was used to test differences between exposed and unexposed tourniquets. Tourniquets exposed to the environment broke more often (14/166 versus 0/166) and had decreased effi cacy (63% versus 91%; p < 0.001). Three turns were required for most tourniquets to be effi cacious. Environmental exposure of military tourniquets is associated with decreased effi cacy and increased breakage. In most cases, tourniquets require three turns to stop the distal lower extremity pulse.

https:// watermark (dot) silverchair (dot) com/milmed-d-11-00212.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAnQwggJwBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJhMIICXQIBADCCAlYGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMpdKT7pV9H1ffKRGoAgEQgIICJwiBGmdfKFBrh75BAeq6jTb92u98JuLa0newDwVhRTwz18lLcXbEejLtSHatyepSsTxBDO84gGGZYIQCOM91MX0zvAzbqjYtsr51nwHca1DJ-C6v1fUNPDx-xT2-_4p0jWv5kjyWAG0DHQRIu6lbOOIHBLlPXUoBMxdKyKJ3nJoTV64yzznxVSfuwiIrDCQRnvo9UedbRFYMZlJ2nCoYBZ2PBx0V2IIcmelhUFFoHWstLIuKj9EeSOUcCOQEH40sQTfdCsFqz38qTtGsMBj3VZ8CUKPbzSKVU-kZM3m4O6yGO5sJQjjVgt9UGqHd85_VNgiH8HUL4o6zu7NvXjKT2psA-KmUGcVwrOROn207tGjYg22a6eI79wNG0W5M3mU0pYfMfhtAdHwRhjaQ48YwHwiG45IwQDxPMBejYArDlKyGG_pjPAjOnoqDkrIVmunUdQmeKwKovPgBOiqM6vlL7nXWQhomD4rx8DNktCv9nXBL2mZfZQXJih2psAurEWLe3fSN1nYGBudZ8Ce4EfDgghyJUoW39eCQ3YDgvL32ZxYQsY1rqGVNosW7WUoWf1eJutZv_Ej7cJYaHDjvEBssQGTxmDMAM9UiESILyPHgAGUFt6yFPL1GDHQlBu022FnCooYRhSmq4PwqLRqKgkF-FbWEg5yoUHoPnDbHhl1-BtGUSVqKnKZSVbjG1vuN3UCHodrYLNlYOb1IoYMVFNGyYhq_YsWvmh-n

Thanks providing the abstract of the article.  I couldn't get the link to work, but when I searched on "milmed-d-11-00212.pdf I found the article, and have put the link below for anyone else interested.  But to your bottom line 14/166 may not seem like a lot, but when you think about the impact, scaled down to what someone may use in the real world, one failure is bad news. Thanks again.

 

https://academic.oup.com/milme.../176/12/1400/4318856

Click the Adobe PDF icon where it says:  "This content is only available as a PDF." and it will load the PDF file
RobertTheTexan posted:

This was a good post, really informative. 

Glad I could help.  I apologize about the link.  I don't like posting live links unless I have to. 

Regarding heat exposure there is is a very small study regarding heat exposure on TQs.

https://www.ncbi. nlm. nih (dot) gov/pubmed/25770796

JSOM 2015 Spring;15(1):34-8.

Laboratory testing of emergency tourniquets exposed to prolonged heat.

 

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Environmental exposure of tourniquets has been associated with component damage rates, but the specific type of environmental exposure, such as heat, is unknown. Emergency-tourniquet damage has been associated with malfunction and loss of hemorrhage control, which may risk loss of life during first aid. The purposes of the study are to determine the damage rate of tourniquets exposed to heat and to compare the rate to that of controls.

METHODS:

Three tourniquet models (Combat Application Tourniquet(®); SOF(®) Tactical Tourniquet; Ratcheting Medical Tourniquet(®)) were tested using a manikin (HapMed Leg Tourniquet Trainer; www.chisystems.com) that simulates extremity hemorrhage. The study group of 15 tourniquets (five devices per model, three models) was exposed to heat (oven at 54.4° C [130° F] for 91 days), and 15 tourniquets similarly constituted the control group (unexposed to heat). Damage, hemorrhage control, distal pulse stoppage, time to effectiveness, pressure (mmHg), and blood loss volumes were measured.

RESULTS:

Three tourniquets in both groups had damage not associated with heat exposure (p = 1). Heat exposure was not associated with change in effectiveness rates (p = .32); this lack of association applied to both hemorrhage control and pulse stoppage. When adjusted for the effects of user and model, the comparisons of time to effectiveness and total blood loss were statistically significant (p < .0001), but the comparison of pressure was not (p = .0613).

CONCLUSION:

Heat exposure was not associated with tourniquet damage, inability to gain hemorrhage control, or inability to stop the distal pulse.

As Pat always pointed out, context is important. My observations are based on daily patrol carry by deputies who sometimes carry things they don't entirely understand.

For the guy whose rig is going to occasional classes on weekends and maybe killing some paper at a monthly match, the daily grind might not be as hard on a less protected TQ or other Med item.

I tend to default to the daily patrol carry grind to setup my equipment.

There are other variables as well. During some recent training and one particular callout CS chemical agent was deployed in considerable quantity and with great enthusiasm. Exposed gear needed more post action decontamination than gear that was protected by enclosed pouches.

In the interest of making distinctions, I would define "exposed" as being "banded" to gear or a belt. I would define "enclosed" as not necessarily being "fully enveloped" as that would make dispensing the tourniquet, especially under duress, difficult.  

With the premise once again that I am Mr. Nobody, most TQ pouches I am aware of do not fully envelope the TQ.  But I've been wrong before. Ask my wife. 

By the way, this is not a linear decision. See the HSGI tourniquet Taco which allows you to carry "enclosed" (read covered except for the top sides that allow you to grasp the TQ once the flap is lifted) or in typical "taco" fashion whereby you remove the pouch portion and carry the TQ "open". This gives you the ability to choose the right type of carry for your situation. 

IMVHO ease of deployment is the most important factor. I can date and examine a TQ to determine if it should be replaced. If it's exposed  to something or rolling around your belt for awhile the simple fact is it can be replaced. There are a variety of deployment systems and each has its merits. I'll let someone else take that factor and provide their opinion. But, at the risk of sounding like a paid spokesperson, the HSGI allows you to slightly lift the TQ out of the pouch once you pull the top flap, the BFG TQ Now has a different system, CTOMS is different, etc. 

YMMV

XTCBX posted:

Good info on heat exposure! The interior on my rig where there are multiple TQ stored gets up to 180+ in the summer, at least those will work...probably not the Narcan (we have) or Epinephrine (supposed to be issued out to us at some point) though. 

Per storage temp of Narcan, the link below is an article on temperature variation during storage and its effect on the medication.

TL;DR - it's fine, storage in extreme heat has a minor effect on Narcan. Periodically inspect the kits and discard them if you note precipitation in the ampule.

https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral DOT com/articles/10.1186/s12954-019-0288-4

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