I've been happily using my Eagle Becker PP for a while now but am intrugued by some of the newer packs out there. What am I missing out on, if anything, compared to the RAID, et al.?

Also, what would you recommend as a large pack for very long-term camping/hiking expeditions? While these trips would be primarily in the Fall/Spring, I'd also like to have enough room for ample cold weather gear. Thoughts?

How many C.I. is the new Eagle Force ruck?
Original Post
Hi, David!

I'm no super trooper but I got an Eagle Large Becker recently and used it on an overnight backpacking trip on turkey weekend. Worked great! I really like how the attach loops and straps everywhere work. The pole loops on the side worked well to hold my SKS bayonets (AKA indestructible tent stakes).

The Large Becker is like 2400 ci in the main compartment and around 2900 ci total including the external pouches. This is favorable to a moderate outing. On a mega-trip maybe the bigger packs from 3500 to 5500 ci might be better. I'll tell you right now this tenderfoot didn't want to carry more than what I could load in the Large Becker. More below, though.

This is by no means a fighting setup, but I attached 2 x SAW ammo pouches to the hip belt and put 2 qt canteens in them. (the waist belt has attach loops) Also, an Eagle recon butt pack on the front with food and some other stuff. Makes me look like I'm carrying a papoose or something. I'll admit right now I carried too much food and probably too much water (2 1/2 gallons) but hey, some safety margin for those E&E days, right? smile There is no 1st/2nd/3rd line setup in my current rig. It's an all or nothing setup.

I did not use the internal frame (I haven't got one yet)

Does that help?

Edmund
David,
Take a look at the Extended Mission Ruck made by KIFARU (www.kifaru.net). It is possibly one of the best large rucks ever made. You can attch any manner of pouches to it (it is covered in PALS webbing) and Kifaru offers some great extras to help handle large extras (water cans, wounded, check out the cargo chair!). Check it out, you will not be disapointed.

Gunfighter
quote:
Originally posted by David Pennington:
Anyone? What's my best bet on a large, well made pack?


The biggest thing you would be missing out on is the modular capabilities of a PALS integrated Ruck.

The LRP-FORCE Pack is going to be a good pack for what you're asking. It was orignally made for the Force Recon Marines. It features a unique 'dual frame' suspension that allows the use of a built in internal frame or an added ALICE frame. It is in the 6000 c.i. ballpark. The samples Brad and I have used are a slightly different design, but have served us well. It will retail for under $400.

As fister mentioned, another option (for the budget wary) is the modified ALICE. It is a tried and true design and with the addition of quality made straps and waistbelt is a good alternative.

HTH

Stephen

High Performance Tactical Gear!
www.Lightfighter.com
I wish I owned one. Hell, I would love to test one! The pack is being tested by Marines (instructors) at Bridgeport (Marine Cold Weather/Mountain Warfare Training Center). All feedback has been that it is an outstanding, abuse taking, reliable, (amd comfortable) pack. On that basis, I believe it is a good pack because the instructors haul loads that are a little heavier than the standard combat load (mountain warfare). I have also talked to Mel and done alot of Q and A and he has sent lots of pics (pointman, etc). I orginaly contacted him to see if they were submitting an example for the Marine ILBE program. Turns out that they are not (they can not handle the production ammount, too much, too soon). It is really too bad since some of the "extras" like the cargo hauler, are really inovative (and needed!). But you knew this already? Or are you just testing me?

Gunfighter
I'm going to be perfectly honest and open here. I think that the EMR is being over marketed (intentionally or otherwise) as the end-all-be-all solution to the military rucksack. I disagree. There are very few units in the military that have the requirements for such a large back pack. The soldiers we deal and work with on a daily basis want something in the ALICE size or smaller. Some soldiers or even units may eventually use some of these packs, but not the ones I have dealt with.

Don't get me wrong. This pack looks to be well designed and constructed. This summer past we tried to bring these EMR's to the shop to sell as a Winter Warfare Pack. Kifaru wasn't interested in increasing it's production to meet dealer demands or lead times. We would still like to be able to offer this pack to our Cold Weather Warriors, but it's not in the cards.

The other part is this; we want this board to be a place where people share their personnal experiences. Why would you try and convince someone to purchase a pack that you've never even used. Please bring your own gear experiences and T&E to the table. Don't share a marketing experience with us.

Stephen

High Performance Tactical Gear!
www.Lightfighter.com
- I'm expecting my EMR soon, so I hope to post my feedback someday.

- Stephen. I agree with you 100%. As an ex-Mtn Infantry man, I can tell this pack is too large for the regular troops. I's looking for a replacement of my old 10th Mtn pack (CFP??), and EMR seemed the best solution at the time.
Stephen,
The information I shared was from a friend that has experience that I absolutly trust. It was not a "marketing experience", it was one adult passing (in my opinion) good to go information to another adult. Remember, David did ask for a large pack for long term camping/hiking. My advice was aimed at David, not as the end-all pack for everybody. The "marketing experience" is your job title pal, not mine. I work for the USMC so I do not make any money peddeling products, you do. If this is an open forum, then let it be a an open forum. I think Lightfighter is a great company with great products. I am sorry Kifaru will not sell to you but you do not need to jump on my back about it. Good luck with the LRP-Force pack, Matt Johnson is a great, inovative guy. Eagle is lucky to have him.

Gunfighter
quote:
Originally posted by Lightfighter:
Who were you with in the 10th Mountain and when where you there?

__High Performance Tactical Gear__
http://www.Lightfighter.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lightfighter, who were you with? I was in the most deployed Battalion in the Army from '96-'01. Do you know which one that is? (Hint: it ain't in 1st BDE!!)

"Top of the Mountain!"
quote:
Originally posted by gunfighter:
David,
Take a look at the Extended Mission Ruck made by KIFARU (http://www.kifaru.net). It is possibly one of the best large rucks ever made. You can attch any manner of pouches to it (it is covered in PALS webbing) and Kifaru offers some great extras to help handle large extras (water cans, wounded, check out the cargo chair!). Check it out, you will not be disapointed.

Gunfighter


cliff notes: look at a pack that I have never touched. it might be the best ever but i have never seen one.
First this:

quote:
Originally posted by gunfighter:
I wish I owned one. Hell, I would love to test one! The pack is being tested by Marines (instructors) at Bridgeport (Marine Cold Weather/Mountain Warfare Training Center). All feedback has been that it is an outstanding, abuse taking, reliable, (amd comfortable) pack. On that basis, I believe it is a good pack because the instructors haul loads that are a little heavier than the standard combat load (mountain warfare). I have also talked to Mel and done alot of Q and A and he has sent lots of pics (pointman, etc). I orginaly contacted him to see if they were submitting an example for the Marine ILBE program. Turns out that they are not (they can not handle the production ammount, too much, too soon). It is really too bad since some of the "extras" like the cargo hauler, are really inovative (and needed!). But you knew this already? Or are you just testing me?

Gunfighter


Then this:

quote:
The information I shared was from a friend that has experience that I absolutly trust. It was not a "marketing experience", it was one adult passing (in my opinion) good to go information to another adult. Remember, David did ask for a large pack for long term camping/hiking. My advice was aimed at David, not as the end-all pack for everybody. The "marketing experience" is your job title pal, not mine. I work for the USMC so I do not make any money peddeling products, you do. If this is an open forum, then let it be a an open forum. I think Lightfighter is a great company with great products. I am sorry Kifaru will not sell to you but you do not need to jump on my back about it. Good luck with the LRP-Force pack, Matt Johnson is a great, inovative guy. Eagle is lucky to have him.



Now this:

quote:
Cliff note for Mark: I said I do not "own" one. I have seen it and touched it I just can not afford it.


An 'Instructor' has one, then a valued 'friend', and then all of a sudden your exerpiance is 'first hand'. I call bullshit, cowboy cause you can't keep the story straight. it looks like a great pack, but don't just regurgitate the crap that mel told you, make your own opinions after you buy one. otherwise clam up.
quote:
Originally posted by gunfighter:
I orginaly contacted him to see if they were submitting an example for the Marine ILBE program. Turns out that they are not (they can not handle the production ammount, too much, too soon). It is really too bad since some of the "extras" like the cargo hauler, are really inovative (and needed!). But you knew this already? Or are you just testing me?

Gunfighter


It was this part of the post to which I was reacting. I had gotten tired of the hype that this pack had generated on AW, but could never speak openly for fear of being accused of pimping Lightfighter's gear. I do apologize if my rant was perceived as a personnal attack on you. I don't think that you have anything to gain from recommending this pack to our members. Instead I was concerned that you didn't have any first hand experience with the pack.

BTW I don't make a dime from Lightfighter. I am a Sergeant in the 502nd Infantry Regiment, US Army. I help Brad out during my spare time to further quench my love for gear.

Stephen

High Performance Tactical Gear!
www.Lightfighter.com
Mark,
Hey, the quote thing is cute. I wish I could do that so I could sit back and pick peoples story's apart (when they are not even directed at me). Send me your address and I will tell you were I bought my cowboy hat so you can get one. Or would you prefer a beret? My advice was given in good faith and directed at David, not Stephen the "I hate Kifaru guy" or you. I call bullshit on both of you for trying to manipulate the forum. David, thanks for the e-mail, I hope the information works for you. Stephen and Mark, you have too much time on your hands.

Gunfighter
quote:
Originally posted by gunfighter:
Mark,
Hey, the quote thing is cute. I wish I could do that so I could sit back and pick peoples story's apart (when they are not even directed at me). Send me your address and I will tell you were I bought my cowboy hat so you can get one. Or would you prefer a beret? My advice was given in good faith and directed at David, not Stephen the "I hate Kifaru guy" or you. I call bullshit on both of you for trying to manipulate the forum. David, thanks for the e-mail, I hope the information works for you. Stephen and Mark, you have too much time on your hands.

Gunfighter


Mr. Gunfighter. I do not know why you have your panties in a bunch and I am sorry if your feelings were hurt by some jerk on the internet. That is the way things go in cyber space and as a productive member of the United States Military, I would expect you to be above that. On the other side of your post though, you were WAY out of line here; I think Stephen did a GOOD job of displaying the olive branch -- and you bit his hand for it.

Discussion of any gear on this website is MORE than welcome, even brands that we do not and can not sell -- but all comments must be in the first person and must be consistent. Stephen was having a discussion with you and apologized pre-emptively in case he offended you by his subconcious tone; and you attacked in the very next post. You do not deserve the kind words that he offered.

Mark One -- knock off your shit and leave Mr. Gunfighter alone. This is not the website to pick a fight and it is not the website to go looking for shit to stir up -- if you can't add to the converstaion in the same manner that I have just admonished Gunfighter, then you can pack your shit and get the hell out.
quote:
Originally posted by gunfighter:
I agree with you totally. It got out of hand. I apologize Stephen, no harm intended. Admin, I will keep it light in the future.

Gunfighter


Any person who has raised their hand and defends my country is welcome on my board. I just had to throw some of that 'boss' shit out there to help frame this place and makethe discussion civil. I think this is going to be a great board, as there are not any others like it. I am glad that people like you are here to help make it that way.
I just been kickin it on the sidelines and staying out of this one. I commend you guys for being the professionals that you are. Hell, even brothers fight and argue from time to time, it don't mean nothin. Brad, I aggree, this is a great board. Keep up the good work.

Mel
im sorry i took so long in getting back...
iove had my ALICE modified byHSGI ,had it for about a 14 days now and love every bit of it!!
as far as load out and long hall it'll carry more than I can. im waiting for my ALI pad suposed to make life more enjoyable..Ill report back w/ more later

Pain is good ,extreme pain is extremely good.
lol FISTER out..
No one has addressed the most important point, how much does this guy want to spend and what can he afford? He can be tempted with the most expensive gear, but it would be worthless if he is on a budget. I'll be dammed if I'm gonna pay over $200 for another pack that sits in the closet 300 day out of the year. Hell, I got five of those already.

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