On Friday I finished up teaching a five-day General Pistol class (#250) at Gunsite. More than twenty students, tthey gave round counts between 880-920 ‘live’ rounds with another 40-50 frangible rounds fired in four indoor/outdoor simulator runs.

Here are the student guns:

Colt Gunsite Pistol .45ACP

Six Glock 17s
Four Glock 19s
Glock 34 (midweek switch from a -19)
Glock 43 (no, not a typo)

Guncrafter 1911 Hoss Cat 45ACP

H&K USP .45Compact
H&K p30
Sig P226
Sig p320
S&W M&P 1.0 9mm full size (switched to it after day one)

Two Springfield Xd45s
Two XD 9mm
Springfield XD-M 9mm w/ Vortex Venom RDS

STI 2011 .40SW

Wilson CQB Elite 9mm
Wilson EDC x9

(Instructor pistols were two Glock 17s, two Colt 1911s, and a M&P 1.0 9mm with a Trijicon RMR)

When I looked at the list of student guns on Monday and saw the number of XDs, I thought I’d see a whole bunch of visits to the range by the gunsmith. Wasn’t the case.

The STI had repeated feed way stoppages with what looked like a flat point / truncated cone 180gr load. I did not catch the man’f. The shooter had manipulation issues, involving consistency & sequence that may well have contributed. Don’t know the date of manufacture;

None of the XDs had any memorable issues aside from a trip to gunsmith over a rather stiff mag release.
The Vortex Venom RDS ran all week. I don’t know if it shifted zero as I don’t know how the shooter had it set-up, however I shot it and made a minor windage adjustment on Wednesday afternoon. It appeared that worked as there weren’t any other issues with it the last two days;

The Wilson EDC X9 had a pretty good stoppage early in the week. The slide locked to the rear as far past the slide stop as it could go. Tap, Roll Rack, Etc. could not budge it. Eventually smacked the snot out of the back of slide which broke it loose. No visible interior damage nor any functional deficit. It appeared to run fine the rest of the week.

The Colts, Glocks, H&Ks, Sigs, and M&P all ran fine. The student with the G43 ran that thing pretty well, with just a couple issues manipulating the slide and completing reloads based on gun size / hand size differences.

Just thought I’d share.

Original Post

Thanks for this information.  Personally,  as a nerd and numbers guy, I am always interested in more 'real world' experiences than the usual internet piss and moan sessions.  

The Wilson problem is fascinating in that I have never heard of it before.  The lack of stoppages on most of the guns listed (S&W, Glock, Sig, etc.) Was not surprising these days. That someone(s) would bring a tiny gun to a high round count class IS surprising,  but also comforting that I will probably not be accidentally shot by them. 

If you would,  please continue to update this thread as time permits. Thanks!

Additional info based on questions on the other board I shared this on:

Four of the G17s belonged to cops sent by their agency, two of the G19s were carried by a father/son pairing as were two of the XDs. 

The switch by one student from a -19 to a -34 was because he had it with him & he wanted to shoot it.

The switch from a 9mm Glock to a 9mm M&P 1.0 by an older female was because the Glock wasn’t viable for her, based on size and manipulations.  

The stiff mag release thing on the XD is something they are apparently not interested in ever fixing. It was a known issue when I bought one a dozen years ago and I still randomly hear about it. 

Joined: 1/19/2010   Location: West Virginia

Interesting.   A number of years ago,  5-7 I think, IDPA used to post who used what gun in the championships.   Not sure if they still do.  Predictably, it was filthy with Glocks.    Seems like the only real top shooters not shooting glock were those sponsored by another brand.   

_______________________ Front Toward Enemy

I shoot the occasional USPSA and IDPA match at the local level.

Eight or ten years ago there were a lot of guys shooting Springfield XDs and now I rarely ever see one.

Five years ago or so I saw a few guys with Smith & Wesson M&Ps. Now hardly ever. 

It's interesting to see what guns are in common use elsewhere, in matches or at training classes, and what works and what does not.

**********************

arm yourself, because no one else here will save you . . .

 

he found faith in danger, a lifestyle he lived by

 

Assemble the Kingsmen

Interesting how things have changed  (attitudes, improved choices).  I did Pistol 250 in 1995.  Of the 11 students, all were armed with a .45 (variations of the 1911) except a female LA cop who was using her issue Beretta 92.

Joined sometime in 2008.                  Live in Canada.        

Guns from this week re-visited

 

Finished another five-day Gunsite 250 pistol class yesterday with about 900-1000rds each downrange plus 50-75 rds. of frangible in simulators. We had snow on the ground and rain, together that equaled M_U_D.

 

The students were shooting a Colt Commander .45ACP, two Colt Gov’t .45ACP,  Glock 19 Gen 5 9mm, Kimber Gold Match II .45ACP, Les Baer Boss 1911, Ruger LtWt Commander 9mm, Sig 1911 .45ACP, Sig P229 9mm, Sig P320 Legion X5 9mm & RDS, Sig P226 9mm, STI DVC3 9mm & RDS, Wilson Combat Classic 9mm. Wilson Combat EDC X9 9mm, and a Wilson Combat Tactical Elite .45ACP,

 

Beyond induced stoppages, I saw the odd here & there stoppage on most, if not all, of the pistols. However, two pistols really stood out.

 

The gentleman shooting the Gen 5 G19 had grip issues that led to numerous unintended magazine ejections, regardless of the effort put in. I did not experience one of these while shooting the pistol.

 

The EDC X9 had a significant number of stoppages during the first two days. A trip to the on-site gunsmith, cleaning, and lube appeared to have handled it - until the night shoot. Take a look at the first photo. The shooter had experienced other stoppages during the evening before that. The stoppage visible in the chamber was what became visible after a vertical failure to eject was cleared. The best description I can give is a Gen 3 G22 internal feed ramp hang-up on top of a nosedive within the magazine. It was cleaned & lubed that night. The daytime photos show other stoppages the next day. The decision was to remove the ShokBuff from the pistol. While no more than a hundred rounds went through the pistol after that, no more stoppages occurred.

 

As an aside, the instructors were carrying an M&P 2.0 w/thumb safety & a P1 Acro, an M&P 2.0 Compact, and a Springfield XD 5” .45ACP. While we demo’d drills & techniques, none of us shot enough to evaluate reliability other than that our pistols worked every time.  

IMG_0512IMG_2374IMG_2375IMG_2376IMG_2377

As Chappy says: Cops Help Cops! 

Then, Don't Be A Blue Falcon

 

Joined: November 2002

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Erick,

I'm curious, what issues have you seen with the XD series?

Full disclosure, I own a couple of XDs and I have run them pretty hard and the only issues I have experienced with them were magazine induced where some dumbass <cough> failed to properly inspect the mags after doing  reload drills on a concrete pad.

I'm concerned that its going to be a "not-if-but-when" type of thing.

They are not my EDC choice (G20 or Shield) , but they are in the rotation for different locations / scenarios.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

David Reeves posted:

Erick,

I'm curious, what issues have you seen with the XD series?

I haven't. Saw one in .45ACP at my office with a patrol deputy for like 3-4 months, then he retired. Saw a few with correctional deputies in our off-duty carry class for them. Low round count courses.

See a few when I'm down here. I wrote the OP because there were a bunch of XDs without major failures and I thought that info needed to get out there. It is a limited sample, won't argue, but it is more of a sample than online hatred.

As Chappy says: Cops Help Cops! 

Then, Don't Be A Blue Falcon

 

Joined: November 2002

The GF has an XD45 and I've used it in a couple of classes over at Sig Arms trying to make it break. This one runs, but I also keep it cleaned and lubed up. It is a range/class gun and I'd just as soon not carry it.

Mechanical and electrical engineers build weapons systems; civil engineers build targets.

 

Location: Southern New Hampshire

Erick posted:
hile posted:

I'm very interested in the issues with the Wilson guns. Is the ShokBuff a standard part of that Wilson, or is it something the student tweaked?

It's a Wilson product that came installed in the pistol.

I've seen quite a few 1911s of different makes just reject Shok Buffs like a bad organ transplant.   I placed one in my Colt one day.  It was harder to rack in that you really had to make sure you pulled the slide all the way back to chamber a round.  It also made the slide stop harder to actuate.

When I experienced a few FTF with the pistol. I ripped that sucker out and the pistol returned to its reliable self.  I know some people want to protect their expensive customs from premature wear or whatnot but I personally would never run a pistol with one of those things in it.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

I AM GROOT.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

I had the roll pin in the top of the slide on my Xd45 tactical break and drop down and lock up the gun with a live round in the chamber, couldn't fire it, move the slide, it was vapor locked. They wanted me to send it to Springfield with it exactly how it was... Yeah. Um, no?

I used a dead blow hammer and a chunk of pipe to beat it back to get the round out before I shipped it to them.

They have a great refurbishement/smith department, it came back looking like a new gun. I promptly punched out the roll pin and replaced it with a coil pin like Sig and H&K use fired 500 rounds through it and then promptly sold it with @3,000rnds through it for $250 more than I paid for it.

It was never as accurate as my USP nor as reliable as my Glocks. It was a great big "Meh" gun that wasn't cheaper enough to make me not just stay with my Glocks and never accurate enough to move me off of my H&Kand all of its stupid expensive magazines or my Glock with it's dead nuts reliablility and same mags. The real holster selection for the XD was wanting, the aftermarket was less than fulfilling so lucky for me I stumbles into an XD fanboi and made a profit. 

 

Location: in SE Idaho, the birthplace of television.  And Epstein didn't kill himself...

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