Pouch for Poncho/Esbit stove/basic survival gear

So this is going to be a bit different post, not the sexy cool operator stuff.


Basically I went to a outdoor 2 gun match a month ago and it was cold and rainy, I nearly froze and got all wet and got the flu and an upper respiratory infection.   Running around with 2 mags on your battle belt and an IFAK might look good on the Instagrams and running drills on a flat range in Arizona or in the summer.  But where I live, it gets cold, it rains, and if I ever have to use my gear for real as a regular dude it probably isnt gonna be a short term thing like some high speed low drag operator doing a SWAT Entry or  SF raid and being out in an hour, but living through whatever is going on weather staying in place somewhere or walking in or out.

I figure an Esbit stove, poncho, and one of those emergency Bivy packs and maybe some pemmican or high caloric density food like dates is probably a good idea to put on the battle belt in a pouch.  Nothing like a full pack but enough stuff to basically not freeze to death/stay dry/not starve enough to remain effective for 24 hours.

Any idea for a good pack? Like the old alice butt packs or a modern large admin pouch?  Any good ponchos besides the USGI surplus?  And what would be a good high density food to get at least 2000 calories in a pound or less?  

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

Original Post

Based on your list of items, Tactical Tailor's 1H or 1V accessory pouches should be enough to hold it all on a battle belt while not being too bulky. A full size poncho will be too big, but an emergency poncho would be fine. A windshirt might fit too. 

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Location: Utah

The British plce pouches should fit all this.  I'm in a current situation with my outdoors gear.  I've regressed with my belt kit (classes, fun, playing red dawn) to be a British belt kit that includes a canteen cup and cup stove, 782 gear puffy, windshirt, etc. 

rcbusmc24 posted:

Get a larger Nalgene pouch, either zip up or top load buckle type,  largish bag o nut mix of your favorite type, as its calorie dense protein based and really doesn't go bad and then put in a survival kit and several of the space blankets/ casualty evacuation blankets or wedge the poncho in there with your stove if you need it. I don't think I would try to put a bivy onto a battle belt... Just remember that the more stuff you put onto your belt the more likely you will need suspenders to be able to carry it in anymore than a square range environment. Much more than this and you start looking like you would be better off with  a British pattern belt kit set up, which should be able to sustain you for 48 hours without reaching back to your ruck.

Honestly if your situation involves overnight woods dwelling then the Belt Kit  style setup looks to be the way to go for Infantry styled operations. The more I think about it, the more I wish to go back to that type of setup with a slick low pro plate carrier for what I do as a Infantry GySgt as well as it is easier to move with, prone out with, Integrate with rucks or packs and breathes more if used slick.

 

 

Hmm I will look into those British setups


And honestly I find that I am thinking along a similar lines to what you wanted to do there.  I have been looking at slick PCs and a belt setup.    I have something in my head looking like the old suspenders and belt type deal they had in Vietnam but with modern materials materials like Molle and Taco pouches instead of ALICE gear.   And being able to add a butt pack or pouch of some kind and water depending on how long you were going to do something.  

And I have heard from you now and several other people independently that some kind of low profile plate carrier is the way to go because it just gets in the way less.  I myself am looking at some kind of low profile soft vest with pockets for rifle plates/trauma plates

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

Based on this: “Nothing like a full pack but enough stuff to basically not freeze to death/stay dry/not starve enough to remain effective for 24 hours.”, you should look at this:

http://lbtinc.com/9005acb

London Bridge Trading has always built the best buttpack.  The workmanship is guaranteed for forever. 

Now, with the weight and bulk you are thinking about, suspenders might be called for, but this does not integrate with a pair the way the old ALICE-style ones did.  This may adjust your calculations.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Or just use a Camelbak Ambush.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

jcustisredux posted:

Or just use a Camelbak Ambush.

IDK I have never messed with a camelback.  I personally like running the old school canteens with cups and covers.  I keep a bic and a pocket knife and water purification tab in one and like the ability to be able to boil water/cook with the esbit.  With some trail mix or something thrown in the bottom of the canteen cover that is kind of the bare minimum survival gear I take and even if I am just hiking a few miles in cargo shorts I take it with me

I apologize if I am getting more survival/bushcraft  then more contemporary tactical.

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

I am pretty sure JCUSTISREDUX was just saying "get an assault pack, here's one I like" not "you need to switch to bladders." 

Camelbak makes packs their bladders go in. 100% of my packs (of all size) have hydro pockets, so just ignore that part. They are independent concepts.

I also agree with the assault pack concept. I wouldn't want to stuff All my comfort/food/survival stuff on my beltline. Even if I am simply standing up all day in class, I will usually have an assault pack with some basics in it*. If you keep it to belt-kit scale, then the pack can hold other essentials, like cold/wet wx gear so you hopefully don't get to the point you need to be warming yourself with fire at all. 

I (recently) have a titanium hex stove suitable for wood burning, and a couple triox tablets, matches, etc. in my ruck, may xfer it to my assault pack if it looks like a sketchy day too far from my ruck.  ESBIT is smaller and more rectangular, but is heavier, less stable for loads, doesn't send the heat any particular direction for warmth, and only burns ESBIT tablets (not wood to boost/sustain it).

 

* and a hydro bladder, yes.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

I would just find a medium size daypack in whatever brand and color you like with a pocket layout that fits your needs, and tote your gear in that.  Drop ruck for your stage, shoot, pick up ruck and head to your next stage.

I would also pick a rain jacket and pants over the poncho for wet weather protection, and get a tarp for shelter and covering gear.  A poncho is a good double-duty item if you're severely weight/size restricted, but rain gear plus tarp offers more options.

Esbit stoves rock, or one of the stoves that nests with the canteen/cup combo and heat tabs.

------------------------------------
Assaulting enemy camps from 400 yards away since 1972.

"There is no nice way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards; our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us. The work we're too afraid, too unskilled, or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, out of our cars, out of our houses, and out of our faces. We just don't want to see how its done."
-Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.

Joined Lightfighter 1.0: early 2001, Lightfighter 2.0 11/19/02

Location:  Fucking Connecticut.  Goddammit.

Linz posted:

Use a smock?  Some of the better ones have rear pockets.

Oh yeah I heard about those.


Don't the Russians make some pretty good ones in what is basically the old school SS style reversible camouflage 

sak45acp posted:

I would just find a medium size daypack in whatever brand and color you like with a pocket layout that fits your needs, and tote your gear in that.  Drop ruck for your stage, shoot, pick up ruck and head to your next stage.

I would also pick a rain jacket and pants over the poncho for wet weather protection, and get a tarp for shelter and covering gear.  A poncho is a good double-duty item if you're severely weight/size restricted, but rain gear plus tarp offers more options.

Esbit stoves rock, or one of the stoves that nests with the canteen/cup combo and heat tabs.

Yeah a backpack wouldnt not be a bad idea especially if some day I decide to shoot trooper in 3/2gun to hold ammo and cleaning equipment.  I always packed light for matches and it would be interesting to run things that way. 

I always find it absurd the level of gear guys carry to matches, like I was at a USPSA match and saw a guy in open show up with a stroller full of crap when I just show up with my CCW, 3 boxes of bullets in my hands and a water bottle or two in my cargo pants


A day pack would not be bad to have things like rain gear like you mentioned, as well as 

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

https://www.canadianoutdoorequ...silnylon-poncho.html

I have this Silnylon poncho, weighs very little, packs small, covers lots. Works as a tarp, impromptu shelter or as, well, a poncho. 

VelSyst has their new jungle pouches, and the GP would likely fit all the stuff, though a messenger bag (SoTech Mission go bag) or daybag would be a better option for your uses, IMO. 

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Low_Speed_Notper8or posted:
Linz posted:

Use a smock?  Some of the better ones have rear pockets.

Oh yeah I heard about those.


Don't the Russians make some pretty good ones in what is basically the old school SS style reversible camouflage 

sak45acp posted:
 

Quite a few do.

Sord:

http://www.sordaustralia.com/clothing/uniforms/

On discount now- if I had not recently purchased a shiny G17 slide & RMR06, I'd have bought a couple.

I’d look into the LBT mini Britt pack. I had one several years ago. Bought it here ( when prices were sane) for that piece of kit. Had it in woodland for awhile and stupidly sold it some time ago. I have not stopped kicking myself for letting it go. I would have been using it for basically the same purpose you are taking about. 

What about an emdom, CSM, TAG,  belly bag/ fanny pack. Mystery Ranch makes a great version of this called the hip monkey

I think I may have posted a review on it awhile back. So long I’d have to look for it. 

Bless the Lord, who is my rock.  He gives me strength for war and skill for battle. PS 144:1

 

It's ok to be open minded, just don't let your brain fall out!

 

Joined: 19 Nov 2002    Location: The BLUE turf, ID

Found my review. They now make these in multicam and coyote. Mine is in a MAS Grey color and I’ve had it awhile. Very versatile as you will see. 

https://www.lightfighter.net/to...key-review-pic-heavy

Bless the Lord, who is my rock.  He gives me strength for war and skill for battle. PS 144:1

 

It's ok to be open minded, just don't let your brain fall out!

 

Joined: 19 Nov 2002    Location: The BLUE turf, ID

Since you mentioned something along the lines of the old Vietnam rig with modern materials...the Mayflower Jungle Rig may fit the bill (but the price tag is an ouch)

I think theres more discussion on it in the Good 2nd Line for the Jungle thread. 

https://www.velsyst.com/jungle-kit.html

IMG_1927hjh

 

 

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Joined: 5/28/04     Location: DFW TX

 

"We're men, okay? That means a few things; we like to shit with the door open, we talk about pussy, we like to go on riverboat gambling trips, and we make our own beef jerky. That's what we do." Dale, Step Brothers

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I cannot swing the whole rig, but I do have the Mayflower buttpack as for the Jungle Kit. Use it as a lid and basecamp bag for my ruck, held on with Slik Clips so I can medium-easily remove it for easy access, or when loaning my pack for cargo hauling. The other weekend it had in it: 

  • Food for a weekend
  • Snacks for a weekend
  • Heat source for food
  • Compression sacked down warmth layer
  • A couple lightsticks
  • NODs wrapped in their nightcap+rhino
  • Molle on the side holding our group-buy bang pouches (which hold a mini-smoke+cardboard perfectly).

And yet, it's smaller (and a hell of a lot lighter) than the USGI buttpack or any of the enhanced bombproof models like the Eagle one of old. 

If I was going back to old school buttpack instead of assault pack (which I am not), I'd get another and stick it on the back of my rig without hesitation. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

shoobe01 posted:

I cannot swing the whole rig, but I do have the Mayflower buttpack as for the Jungle Kit. Use it as a lid and basecamp bag for my ruck, held on with Slik Clips so I can medium-easily remove it for easy access, or when loaning my pack for cargo hauling. The other weekend it had in it: 

  • Food for a weekend
  • Snacks for a weekend
  • Heat source for food
  • Compression sacked down warmth layer
  • A couple lightsticks
  • NODs wrapped in their nightcap+rhino
  • Molle on the side holding our group-buy bang pouches (which hold a mini-smoke+cardboard perfectly).

And yet, it's smaller (and a hell of a lot lighter) than the USGI buttpack or any of the enhanced bombproof models like the Eagle one of old. 

If I was going back to old school buttpack instead of assault pack (which I am not), I'd get another and stick it on the back of my rig without hesitation. 

Hooahmonster posted:

Since you mentioned something along the lines of the old Vietnam rig with modern materials...the Mayflower Jungle Rig may fit the bill (but the price tag is an ouch)

I think theres more discussion on it in the Good 2nd Line for the Jungle thread. 

https://www.velsyst.com/jungle-kit.html

IMG_1927hjh

 

 

Can you buy the buttpack a la carte?

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

Unless I am confused about which one it is, cause the one I got from @Lightfighter's store looks like it. 

...

I say yes, they even call it "The Jungle Buttpack" 

https://www.velsyst.com/jungle-butt-pack.html

It is very much Mayflower priced. Most expensive single "pouch-like" thing I own by a good margin. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Kifaru Tailgunner or Scout if its just a 24/48 hr requirement. Scouts a little bigger Tailgunner more organization. Medium belt allows me two 2 row pouches each side on the belt front clear.

Joined  4/5/03  Location Maine

Low_Speed_Notper8or posted:
Can you buy the buttpack a la carte?

You can. 

We have it on our website: https://nelsonuniform.com/products/jungle_butt_pack

And our price is good. Take a look. Thanks! 

Brad

 

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Probably your least sexy option but what about the Molle waist pack?  At least you could decide if you like the concept and if not you’re only in the hole like $15... maybe a few bucks more if you don’t want ACU pattern.

https://colemans.com/shop/pouc...i-waist-pack-unused/

To the other questions- ponchos suck, and a lightweight rain jacket and 5x7 sil nylon tarp take up as much space and weight (prob less) as the old school poncho.  But if you want one you can find a silnylon poncho.  I think bushcraft outfitters makes one.  

Foodwise - if you just want calorie density and you’re not going to be living off of it, snickers and pop tarts.  

 

I realize I was beat to the punch, but I was going to post the Mayflower Jungle kit. 

I literally ordered some stuff yesterday, so it's not on hand yet, but the butt pack and the large GP pouches would seem to fit the bill for you. I've been building up old school belt kit rigs for a while now using both a BFG Beltminus and a FirstSpear Patrolling Harness that I happen to have. Paired with a light pack (I have a HPG Tarahumara and a GoRuck GR1), I don't see many situations that they couldn't cover.

All of that complements my basic combo of light battle belt and chest rig. Obviously, I've been bored since moving and had too much spare cash on hand.

Also, as far as buttpacks, I picked up a FireForce USA one last year or so. It would probably meet your needs as well, and for cheaper, but I think it might be just a tad too big for my wants, and I don't care for the way the MOLLE was done on it.

http://fireforceusa.com/abugear/8054.htm 

Another already-mentioned option is to go waistpack style with something like a SOTech Mission Go Bag A1 set up to be carried on the waist.

https://www.skdtac.com/S-O-Tec...Bag-A1-p/sot.600.htm

It sounds, to me, that your requirements for this comp are very similar to a basic LBE type set-up, especially along the lines of the classic Brit "belt kit".  I like this format better, unless I have to wear BA on the torso.  Especially for the hotter areas in the US.  In a nutshell, you pick your belt of choice, add suspenders, and then tailor the pouches to your needs.  For instance you might have 1-2 mag pouches for primary; then 2-3 "sustainment" pouches for folding stove, brew kit, light foods, canteen and cup, IFAK, etc.; then pistol holster and mag pouches as required.  Also, a light jacket, poncho, etc. can be carried on top of the sustainment pouches around back.  So yeah, it sounds like this would be right up your alley.

Velocity/Mayflower is awesome kit.  Their "jungle" stuff  is super light weight like you wouldn't believe, and sheds water really well.  But you pay for it.  Worth it but expensive.    

Brit surplus PLCE is plentiful and reasonably priced, and available, via ebay.

And always USGI, if you aren't humping a ruck.  

A word on butt pack vs Brit pouches.  I have run both, and prefer individual pouches for "E&E" kit around back.  First because it makes a better shelf for your ruck, but also I just like working out of individual pouches, vs rummaging through butt pack.  YMMV.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Reading through this again, I still recommend a "war belt" for your mags, and your kids' daypack to carry your other stuff.  I would suggest visiting utoob and looking at videos for 2 gun matches.  I know you said your climate is different than Arizona, but several groups run 2 gun matches regularly there and in Utah, and there is a lot of video of them.  Specifically, check out the InRange guys (you can see the videos on several other venues if you don't like utoob, and they have their own website).  Lots of people just carry their extra shit to the stage and drop it.  I think it was last year's Hard as Hell had two ten year old girls running in Trooper class, running all their gear for the entire match through each stage, so you don't need too much if you're not running that hard.  

------------------------------------
Assaulting enemy camps from 400 yards away since 1972.

"There is no nice way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards; our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us. The work we're too afraid, too unskilled, or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, out of our cars, out of our houses, and out of our faces. We just don't want to see how its done."
-Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.

Joined Lightfighter 1.0: early 2001, Lightfighter 2.0 11/19/02

Location:  Fucking Connecticut.  Goddammit.

Since this is LF, I would ASSume guys here are serious, and practicing for possible bad times, not just hobby-shopping it.  So while you could just work out of a pack, like a glorified range bag, it would seem to me that you would get more training value out of humping everything with you on a belt kit.   Like you might actually do on the day.  If that is a factor.  

If not, carry on.  Nothing wrong with gaming it, if that's all you're doing.

Again belt kit is my preference.  A smock is a good choice for a northern euro climate but not so much for vast areas here.  Maybe at night but not at high noon.  An assault pack will work, but then I'd leave it on and run a 3L bladder for hydration.  Might be good counter-balance for a chest rig.  But also hot in our climes.     

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

DIZ, not sure I am following your "Like you might actually do on the day" as regards a daypack. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I carry a small assault pack on many range days, and all field days. When running, walking, biking or otherwise around town for work trips but out of work uniform, I carry one with all my non-pocket -beltline gear, and to haul shopping. Hell, touristing last month I wore my civilianized version of the same GGG LW AP most of the day, literally every day, for 4 weeks straight. 

A daypack can be your go-to. YMMV, but it's a legit option. 

Were I setting up a full-time BOB to sit in the corner, it would be a daypack, before I made an LBE. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

That was not meant as a dig.  Merely how it's being used.  And I say this to myself as well.  When I go to the square range, I use an assault pack as a glorified range bag.  It is used as a carry-all and taken off when setting up to shoot.   When I train in the bush, everything is carried with; no extra baggage.   If the pack is a method of covert carry, that is valid.    

What that comment was geared towards is how you train live fire for a "contact front" scenario, as I assume these comps are set up for.   For example, if I was training for a security patrol, running my perimeter.  I might want an extra clothing layer or some other shit, but I would probably carry it on the back of a belt kit where I could get at it easily,  vs having to take off a pack and rummage around.    

So my thinking was, you might want to simulate this in training by running a belt kit, and working off of it, vs a piece of kit you have to remove to use, or just stage separately.      

So yeah, that is more rural-oriented, which may or may not apply.  I can see a small pack would make more sense in urban environments, where covert carry is important, if not essential.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Whatever happened with the smock thread? Did anyone ever see or buy anything?

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

Diz posted:

If the pack is a method of covert carry, that is valid.    

 

If we're talking "using the kit" in the US (as I get the impression OP is talking about going Wolverines innawoods), I'd think a civilian daypack is far less conspicuous than a jungle belt kit. A trim war belt with a normal "range/match load" could easily be concealed by a jacket. Backpack on top, no one's the wiser. 

There's not a lot of visual wiggle room with a PLCE style belt kit. It has an overt military vibe. 

@OP

Conceptually you have a gun belt and sustainment kit, and your sustainment kit is pretty standard overnight 24hr backpacking stuff (food, water, shelter, warm layer, etc). Crossing one into the other limits flexibility, ease of carriage, and condemns you to be overweighed with kit when you might not need it. As in, shooting your match with a buttpack flopping around). Recall your comment "I always find it absurd the level of gear guys carry to matches."

It sounds like your belt is 2 rifle mags, IFAK, (going to assume as it's two gun...) Pistol w/holster, and 2-3 pistol mags. If you're keeping this as slim and light as possible (flat IFAK, single rifle/pistol mags) you're out of gun belt room. Plus you have to keep the balance and weight distribution in mind? Does the benefit of "easier access" outweigh, well, the weight?

For the rest of your gear, you could fit it in a 24L daypack or smaller depending on how autistic you go down the ultralight rabbit hole. A few L of water (with canteen if you must), food (stripped down MRE for max calories?), jacket, lightweight bivy shelter, heater, and a water treatment option (cough Sawyer cough give the 60s back their water tablets) is easy enough. 

Thread hijack:  Genuine Jay Jays Windproof Smock.  Very alley!  The only original style light weight smock I've found since SASS went away.  Highly recommended.  Works just as well as the original ORC level 5 soft shell PCU jacket.  But in MC.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

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