Prepping with Limited Space

Cytez posted:

Now, having said all of that.  IF I were going to gather precious metals for barter/trade in a WROL scenario?  I would look at Gold and Silver chains, chains in which a I can cut links off, something like a "Curb" chain, with easily definable links that can be easily cut with a leatherman.  I would look for 18K chains, from places like pawn shops.  You don't care about the "Look/Style", just that they ARE gold/silver, and easily cut.  What this all infers, is that you become REALLY good at identifying Gold and Silver, either through mechanical or chemical means.  Your money would go a LOT further buying pawn chains than something like above, that is manufactured for the express purpose of praying on "fear".  

Hmmm.

A very long time ago, as a kid, I had access to a very exclusive Club in a far away place.  Around the pool was an old (70-700) Asian(ish) dude who was spending his retirement years drinking & reading at the pool while gazing at attractive young female bathers. He had great tolerance for kids & used to tell us tales from his life long occupation: smuggling throughout Asia.  For bribery (say two guards on a remote trail) he recommended gold wire which he kept wrapped around his gut) regardless of what else he might be smuggling. "Why?", we asked.

Compact, easily concealed, easy to twist/cut to length & easily dividable.  More importantly, the objects of the bribe could determine it was gold (mass & bite test) & knew what they could do with it- hoard, sell, trade.  Not so with other commodities such as antibiotics, diamonds, USD etc.

Thanks for the coffee help, CYTEZ. Very good info on PM above. My views are similar, last thing to do unless you have the bucks to get everything at once.  I don't see much use for it in a short term  disaster. I look at it for use after having survived a very bad, wide spread, long term event when things become the new normal. But to get to that point you need everything else. All the stuff, the skills, training, knowledge and support network. Other things that are inexpensive now, that will be needed and have a long shelf life are better barter items than PM in my mind.

Dave

"Keep that cheap, wail'n slut quiet!" A.J. Maggott

Cytez posted:

Bartering items, whether they be cash, semi-precious/precious metals/gems, or expendable goods (food/ammo/medical/etc.) are ONLY worth what everyone AGREES they are worth.  IF I had 100,000 rnds of 5.56, and someone wanted to trade me some gold for 1,000 of those rounds, then I have to DECIDE whether the gold is WORTH it to me.  Can I feed gold to my "family"?  Can I fire gold through a firearm?  Can gold patch an injury/wound?  What does it DO for me?  The ONLY thing I could hope for is that someone, with something I WANT, finds that gold as important/precious as I did and VALUES it enough to trade for it.

In a WROL/End times scenario, would you rather take an ounce of some metal that you can't really do anything with?  Or would you rather trade for Food/Medicine/tools/etc., something tangible/useful?  

Where this REALLY gets interesting is ANYTHING that is a "crutch"/addictive.  Coffee, Tobacco, Alcohol, etc.  While I don't drink, I personally have a bunch of alcohol, in "Pint" +/- size bottles that easy to trade with/for (whiskey, tequila, rum, vodka).  I also have a shit ton of coffee (instant and beans/grounds), to use for trade as well as my own habit.  

I see "Money", paper currency and then "precious metals",  only lasting/having value for so long after an event.  People will probably keep hope that things will return to "Normal" for 3-6 weeks after an "Event".  After that?  ALL bets are off.  Think of the movie "The Book of Eli", and how valuable potable water became.  

 

I can't remember which website posted the particular AAR I'm thinking of, and I can't recall which country the writer was from but I want to say it was Chechnya or some such...

Anyway, the writer lived in an urban area where essential services were nonexistent for a LONG period of time and the local economy sounded like it devolved to a straight-up barter system. His most valuable resources (for trading purposes) were alcohol /liquor and Bic lighters, of all things 

Years ago, I read a Hurricane Katrina AAR and the guy that wrote it had access to a generator and could apparently make his own ice. He had a large stock of coca cola and would use ice cold cans of coke for everything from trading to bribing NG/LEOs at checkpoints ...

When life gives you lemons, say f*** the lemons and bail...

Rather timely video from Survival Dispatch:  https://www.youtube (DOT) com/watch?v=ZNzV1UhFCJI&t=0s&list=PLdE1ckSK34UgH14wDdpHNhOhG71SBmTIj&index=2&fbclid=IwAR3wca7c6GLLuMqrKM9aVDPmeyFl1ip-kZeNUQoZtRCFC4rYABy0K-GNPtk


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

I actually found that video pretty decent .Not the "crazy prepper" video I was half expecting. 

 

Here's the problem .  While I agreed with all the items they said to store for use/bartering, in my head I was calculating how many Conex boxes I'd need to bury in order to have all this stuff, and keep it relatively safe. Now and during an "event.'   

 

It really takes a village. Ideally, 3 or 5 families with a decent amount of property adjacent with everyone contributing. That's how you survive short and long term .  But seriously, how many of us can do that?  Lightfighter island comes to mind. We'd all love it, but reality is what it is .

 

Still, a good video .

----------------------------

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."


Friends, in your life I hope you do four things; lie, steal, cheat, and drink. When you lie,do it to save a friend. When you steal, steal someone's heart. When you cheat, cheat death. And when you drink, drink with me.

Joined 06/02/09.        Sierra Nevadas, Ca.

Exactly......Mutual Aid/Assistance.  Network, Group, Pact, etc.  With the wife and I, how long do you think the two of us can …….Pull Security, Prepare food/cook/clean, cut/split/gather firewood, collect/gather water, etc. etc. etc.?  Eventually, one or two of us need to SLEEP.  The more people you have to carry the "load", the easier it will be.  Location also determines "work load".  Me at the end of a cul-de-sac?  Easier to secure than say a regular square block in the middle of the San Fernando Valley.  Avenues of Approach are pretty easy to predict and therefore secure.  With basically one avenue of approach, the "security requirement" is simple.  The city block in the San Fernando Valley would require 360 degree security.....at ALL times.  LOTS of people are required for that.

So, now here's the downside with a MAG/MAN/MAP etc.  Typically a MAG requires that everyone IN the MAG has a baseline of certain things (firearms/food/medical/etc.), say 1000 rounds Pri, 250 rounds Sec, 1 years worth of food for each family member, IFAK kit for each family member, etc.  The question becomes, how do you insure/verify each family HAS what it's suppose to?  Does it become a "Military" environment?  Do you have full layouts in the middle of the street?  You are RELYING on these people for your LIFE.....trust but verify fits in here.

What are becoming popular are, for lack of a better term, communes (communal living communities).  Groups or individuals are buying large acre tracks, and then set up living arrangements (typically simple houses, but can be even trailers/motor homes etc.).  Rich people do it with very expensive underground bunkers with every luxury.....not rich people do it with whatever means they can (including doing it "off grid" to lower costs).  Typically, whoever is running the MAG/MAP/Community ensures that everyone moving onto the property has the minimum requirements OF the property.  Quite a few of these type of communities typically have something at their core in common, such as religion.  This gives the community a definitive common belief system to work with/for, and cuts down on the disputes, etc. 

What these communities tend to be doing, is "bugging out" BEFORE the "event".  They are setting themselves up to live as simply as possible, in anticipation that it will be exactly how people will live AFTER the event anyway.  They already HAVE the garden going, the animals (goats/chickens/etc.) in rotation, the water sources (rain catchment/ponds/hand pumped wells/etc.).  They typically live a much simpler (in some ways) life, without chasing the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality of dual incomes, multiple vehicle, McMansions, etc.  While each family MAY have a single source of income (to maintain the vehicle, buy construction materials, etc.), the focus is much more on the homestead/home/family.  A GOOD example of this is Shofar Mountain (the name of their community) run by Pastor Joe Fox.  He's got HUNDREDS of videos on YouTube about what they're doing and how they got there.  

"Lightfighter Island" could always be a reality.  There's always the ability to buy large tracts of acres all across the country, and moving multiple family groups onto it.  The question becomes, who is truly willing to do it?  Who is willing to walk away from the "Rat Race" and chasing the all mighty dollar, to live a harder but simpler life?  Who is willing to build it up from scratch?  With OUT the benefit of multi-millions of $$$?  Who is voluntarily willing to become an "Indian" in a community, vs. a "Chief" of their own home?  All kidding aside, it would take a special group, with a laser beam focused singular purpose of intent, to be able to make it work.  It would require EVERYONE, to place  Principals before Personalities.  

The other side of the coin is...….What do YOU bring to the table?  What SKILL do you bring that would make you VALUABLE to a community?  "Gunslinger", unless you're a former "Delta/HRT" shooter, doesn't cut it (exaggeration, but you get the idea).  18D like (PJ/Corpsman/etc.) medic, communications, construction/engineer, gardening/animal husbandry, etc.  These are valuable skills that you can bring to earn your place in the community.  Of course, there's more, those are just examples.  SKILLS are always in need...… another mouth to feed?  not so much.  


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

Cytez, I understand your Gunslinger comment but everyone in a Mutual Aid setup should be at least modestly familiar with whatever weapons are on hand, I would think. It may not be my specialty but is a skill that could be called on if needed. 

Mojo/Mark
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Vincent from "Collateral"
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You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
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Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

That's just it.....EVERYBODY should be a "gunslinger" (I would say, even the women and children above a certain age), so coming in saying your "skill", that you bring to the Community, is "Gunslinger", isn't THAT special (unless you have training/experience to MAKE it special).  A 25yo brings, typically, very little "skill", but instead a STRONG back/Useful labor.  A 40-50 yo maybe not have the strength/endurance of the 25 yo; BUT, brings a lifetime of skills/experience to the table.  


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

That’s where I thought you were going with the gunslinger comment. I had to type out my response so my brain could wrap around it. Sometimes my neuro issues make me a touch slow on the uptake of info. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Another video from "Survival Dispatch" on "the 10 Rules of Bartering/Trading"  (during a WROL/SHTF scenario).  I don't take as THE word, but some good ideas to think about:  https://www.youtube (DOT) com/watch?v=9i1IdMvIXwg


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

KUTF posted:
geronimo posted:

What are you prepping for? What are you prepping against? 

Everyone wants to talk about guns and ammo, but the reality is that you should probably be looking at provisioning yourself to be able to stay home for 60 days without going outside. Lots of problems can be solved by locking the doors and leaving the blinds closed. 

 

Regardless of your religious affiliation, the LDS church has good resources on food storage, including how to integrate it into limited space (apartment living), calculating requirements and even storage resource centers where bulk items can be purchased or packaged - even by non-members.  Search 'LDS food storage' and do some reading.  

One of my best friends is LDS... he pointed me here. 

http://prepared-housewives.com/

My Neighborhood is trying to get a Neighborhood preparedness group together. Worse case scenario is the Great Cascade Earthquake. So we are starting to plan for 30-60 days without FEMA help.  The idea  will be Help your self, Then help those in your group (like minded people) then help the neighboring group(s) then MAYBE check on those who didn't prepare. 

this is something considering i live in the Seattle/King County area with a bunch of Liberal Douche bags!

 

The gene pool needs some chlorine.

 

Joined: 4/7/03   Location: Renton, WA - Barrow , AK

Another thing i liked while researching "practical prepping" was the idea of not putting all your eggs in one basket. Each 5 gallon bucket (or whatever you use) has a variate in it.  If i put ALL my flower in ONE bucket (even if it's in one gallon bags) I need to open 5 buckets to make bread. But if i put a little of everything in one bucket at a time.. I can have rice and beans, Flour,  Yest, Salt, spices, flavor packets (taco or other premade seasoning) Drink mix, Top Roman.. you get the idea, All in one bucket. Then i can open one bucket with 5-7 days worth of meals in it. 

Then if I have to grab and go.. I would at least have a variety in one bucket.   the same can be said about a support bucket. Grab a food bucket and a support bucket (water purifier, Medical and medication).  yada yada. 

The gene pool needs some chlorine.

 

Joined: 4/7/03   Location: Renton, WA - Barrow , AK

All of the buckets we packed have SOME variety to them.  A pound of rice, a pound or two of beans, salt, oatmeal, a pound of sugar, etc., for just the reasons you mentioned.  Also, being up here in the mountains, we have to contend with mice.  Not the house mice, but full on field mice (house mice's smarter stronger cousins).  Our thought process was, if they chewed into one bucket (and the bags within), we don't lose all of "one thing" (rice/beans/etc.).  We didn't break it all down to 2 full days worth of food per bucket, etc.; just cross-loading to prevent all of any one thing being lost.

 


If it's a Pain in the Ass....you're doing it WRONG

I don't make policy, only suggestions, take them as such.

 

Joined: 8/5/05    Location: 20 miles west of Gettysburg, PA

 

 

Cytez posted:

 Not the house mice, but full on field mice (house mice's smarter stronger cousins).  Our thought process was, if they chewed into one bucket (and the bags within), we don't lose all of "one thing" (rice/beans/etc.).  

 

I hear ya, $#@%$ field mice. You need to give them their 'own' bucket https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIlYiiCGLI.

I have two hawks that live by my house and lots of other transient raptors so anything larger than a good size mouse has the life expectancy of a donut at a Weight Watchers meeting. But the little mice slip under their radar. They are so small that they don't set off normal mouse traps. I have to modify those with cut drinking straws on the bait lever, so there is more leverage and they have to work harder,  to trip them. It is pathetic to have to sit at the table and 'boobytrap' mousetraps.  The bucket trap also has the advantage that after getting the body count to report to H.Q. I just toss them out in the field to promote raptor activity. My plan of putting their heads on little spikes as a warning to other mice to stay away was overruled by higher authorities. 

warning

Update-, as it does not need its own thread, (besides, what forum, 'Support Weapons'?) a couple of tricks (I did not watch the video, so?). Have the roller about 6 inches down from the lip of the bucket. That way they can not use the lip as an OP, and you can put a lid on it if you like (dogs, children, womenfolk who oppose heads on spikes, etc). Cut two holes with a circular saw (or razor knife) and put the roller just below those, with the ramps leading to the access holes (I like to add a miniature 1950's Diner sign over the openings). In the middle of the roller add a circular barrier and put the bait (peanut butter) on this. That way it is on a vertical surface and if they are trapeze artists, they are more likely to make the roller spin when they shift their CG up to get the bait. Also, put some dish soap in the water to reduce surface tension, so they drown quicker. I do like LINZ suggestion of a napalm mix, but I am sure H.Q. would pass down that is not in the R.O.E. (damn)

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"When did you get so paranoid?" …When they started plotting against me.

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mog posted:
Cytez posted:

 Not the house mice, but full on field mice (house mice's smarter stronger cousins).  Our thought process was, if they chewed into one bucket (and the bags within), we don't lose all of "one thing" (rice/beans/etc.).  

 

I hear ya, $#@%$ field mice. You need to give them their 'own' bucket https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIlYiiCGLI.

I have two hawks that live by my house and lots of other transient raptors so anything larger than a good size mouse has the life expectancy of a donut at a Weight Watchers meeting. But the little mice slip under their radar. They are so small that they don't set off normal mouse traps. I have to modify those with cut drinking straws on the bait lever, so there is more leverage and they have to work harder,  to trip them. It is pathetic to have to sit at the table and 'boobytrap' mousetraps.  The bucket trap also has the advantage that after getting the body count to report to H.Q. I just toss them out in the field to promote raptor activity. My plan of putting their heads on little spikes as a warning to other mice to stay away was overruled by higher authorities. 

 

They would just eat the heads.

Seen a similar trick done in a mouse plague...but with 44gal drums & diesel/kerosene.

Empty the drum out in the morning, ignite & fill again the next night.

 

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