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I realize the cool kids wear pants at hip height these days...which sucks for guys like me that get best concealment of a sidearm with pants worn at waist height.    Anyone got recommendations for pants with enough space in the inguinal area to be belted at waist height or do I need to drink some Costa Kool-Aid, get a belly band and be happy (for those that  get him in their FB feed)?

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Pants fit is one of my most hated things. I basically live in REI Screeline shorts and pants. A few months ago, saw a super clearance on some, bought several. 

Nope, Screeline Adventure or Action or some other additional moniker. Totally. Different. Fit. Fucking pants. You have to try them on, dammit. One reason I have the REI ones is we have stores, so I can try stuff; I can't get into the wife's mode of buy and return everything. Too depressing. 

Anyway, if you don't find politics so important you boycott everyone for everything, I get on very well with those with guns in, AND out. My jeans, 5.11s and other such I had before I had to designate as IWB or not, but these and likely other technical pants work well both ways, just have a belt with enough adjustment room. 

I've fallen into wearing mostly Duluth Trading pants anymore. At least within the DT brand they are size consistent and damn near indestructible. 

They look reasonably nice enough to wear damn near anywhere and they don't scream "TACTI-CREEP"... even to people in the know.  I used to wear 5.11s semi-regularly and was amazed and disturbed by the number of random people who would comment on them being version 2007-AB or AX or whatever based on the stitching /seam/pocket arrangement/etc...I got VERY uncomfortable with the thought that people were eye-fucking my PANTS at that level with out me noticing. 

I began to seriously think about the potential for targeting / CCW compromise if people were paying that much attention to the stitching / pockets on my pants.

Did the Carhart thing for a while, now transitioned to DT almost exclusively and have been pretty happy. The Foreman and Management line actually look dressy enough the wife doesn't get the grumbles when we go out.

The only thing I would recommend is to go to one of the actual stores to go hands on with them for feel / fit / etc... some of the colors are a bit ... weird... but no one says you have to buy every color 

 For daily wear, I like Kuhl, Mountain Khakis, and Eddie Bauer in that order. In the wintertime or shittier weather, especially, the Eddie Bauer guide pants are pretty sweet. If I need to look a little more dressed up I'll jump right to Eddie Bauer also with the normal khakis or whatever I need to use. 

I refuse to buy anything from Duluth unless I can try it on in a store since most of their clothing is sized for huge people. I have a size L flannel shirt thats bigger than most companies XXL's. I don't care how well made something is if the sizing is inconsistent. 

geronimo posted:

I refuse to buy anything from Duluth unless I can try it on in a store since most of their clothing is sized for huge people. I have a size L flannel shirt thats bigger than most companies XXL's. I don't care how well made something is if the sizing is inconsistent. 

this is one of the reasons I say go physically get hands on. 

I generally wear a LARGE Carhartt jacket and have room for a shirt and sweater.. however I wear a MEDIUM DT Firehose shirt-jacket and I can have a shirt, sweater AND a hoodie on under the MEDIUM DT...

I'll take another look at the DT stuff.  I have a pair, not sure what happened to them... I wear a lot of Kuhl, and I like them, but haven't found a style that works well.  I've had some weird fit issues where the waist seems to stretch over time, but that might just be  my difficulty coping with most companies vanity sizing.  

I abstain from anything super tactical looking as a rule (5.11 included, perhaps even especially)  - seems like I'm not alone there.

I second the Vertx VTX1000 are very roomy, functional, but low keyed. They have cargo pockets but they're very subtle. I wear them to work and church because they look like nice dress pants. My other choice is the Vertx VTX1700. It has no cargo pockets, looks more like a designer jean, but is still very functional and made from a stretch material that makes them the most comfortable pants I own. 

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My tac pants journey started with Royal Robbins before they were acquired by 5.11.  RR begat 5.11 begat EOTAC begat using  "work" pants from Carhart, Dickie, Key and Wrangler. I made a purposeful pivot away from the tactical teddy look  to granola dad as I was scouting with my son. That pivot begat the synthetic offerings of Prana and Eddie Bauer.  In general, I have moved to a slimmer line across my entire wardrobe, dress and casual. 

These days, I remains both a Prana Strech Zion  (25% or better ) and an Eddie Bauer Guide Pro Fan  (40% off or better). Both are trim enough without being  too slim fit with room  to move etc.  I am 6/2, 200-205,  34-36 waist /34 inseam FWIW. 

 I freely acknowledge that my choices are not a durable as the aformentioned work wear.  I also have come to like even my cotton pants/jeans to have a bit of synthetic in them for some "give" in the crotch and waist.

Finally, to Shoob's point, if you find something you like, buy a bunch because there can be significant variation/change "updating" in a brand/model of pant from season to season.

 https://www.prana.com/p/stretc...-pant/M4ST99116.html  

 https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/1...guide-pro-pants?sp=1

 

Finally, to Shoob's point, if you find something you like, buy a bunch because there can be significant variation/change "updating" in a brand/model of pant from season to season.

 

Here’s their master plan... they intend on having  all males in skinny jeans  within the next decade, eventually designing them so there is no chance testicles can survive .  I’ve stuck with Levi’s 501 for decades , but at an outlet store some dude who’s father probably sported jordache jeans, tried to sell me on tapered  jeans, the gateway  pants to skinny jeans. I’ll have to start buying vintage 501s

 

Another vote for Prana Strech Zion. Holy cow are these surprisingly comfortable, low profile and durable. I do all my back packing, hiking, rock climbing (5.11a level), yard work, around town in them. I have had them for 2 years now and they look PERFECT. No shit ... PERFECT like I just bought them. I do a lot of over land 15-20 mile per day back packing trips in the Sierra's. This involves bush whacking through California Mountain White Thorn bushes a lot of the time. These bushes are brutal and shred my truck, other clothes, boots ... anything but my Prana's or Rail Riders. For rock climbing and general near water stuff I roll up the lower leg with the convenient buttons to keep the roll from unrolling. For rock climbing and backpacking they have a super lower profile waist tightener that lets me avoid using a belt when needed. Belts, climbing harnesses and back pack waist straps don't work well together. Its really nice to have your pants held up without a belt.

I am in super hot conditions a lot of the time and I sweat like a pig and while they get wet from my sweat they never hold dirt or make me hot, sticky, bound up like other pants. Rail Riders are just as good. (more on RR later)

I have not been kind to these pants ... I can't stress this enough. I could sneak them into the store, put them on the shelf and nobody would even know they were used. Not a single hole, pulled stitch, stain or blemish.

I'm not exactly sure what the fuck these pants are made of ... but it comes from another planet.  I'm wearing the fuckers right now actually  They are my favorite pants of all time.

My measure for low profile is how many times I'm asked if I'm a cop or in the military. I keep my hair super short because of all my activities and I'm fit so any clothing that suggests "tactical" gets me questioned almost immediately. Prana's never seem to get me pegged.

The only down side to Prana is the "styling" is not exactly great in their various models. I have owned 2 pairs of Zions so I don't know about any other models of Prana.

I've tried/tested extensively:

Carhartt's, I shred them in no time unless I get the super heavy duty ... then I'm hot as fuck. Super low profile. Wearing Carhartt in my area will make you culturally invisible.

Duluth Firehose (very durable but hot as fuck in summer). Comes in stretch versions which is nice.

Kuhl, insanely comfortable and breathable and stylish but I shred them quickly. People tend to notice Kuhl's as they are gaining a reputation in the "hipster" crowd as a "eco warrior" "outdoors" person. Like Patagonia. North Face stuff makes you a rich douche, Patagonia and Kuhl make you a rich, cool hipster ... but that is another story.

Vertex, these barely lasted a hike and were shredded

Rail Riders: These are amazing pants and I have several. These are as good as the Prana's but they look "techno hiker". They don't look "tactical" but it's clear you are "going for a hike" and not suitable for daily, work, dinner type situations. BULLET PROOF. I have had several pairs for 8+ years and like the, Prana's I could put them back on the shelf and no one would notice them being used.

Work like CHAMPS in all kinds of weather. Wet, cold, etc. I used them in a 3 day Reno Carbine course in a snow storm and 6 inches of ground snow, they are not supposed to be weather proof but kept me relatively warm, comfortable, wind proof and dry. Damn impressed.

Also in a White Thorn test the Rail Riders give my skin a little better scratch protection. Prana's don't get scratched themselves but my skin underneath gets a little beat up.

The only downside to RR are the models I have don't stretch. Once your thighs and balls go stretch its hard to go back. I haven't looked at the RR pants line in a while so they might have added a stretch version.

Summary:

Prana: daily nearly everything pants

Rail Riders: end of the world or extreme conditions where what I look like doesn't matter to me.

PS: Fuck White Thorn. If you have ever crashed through White Thorn bushes for several miles trying to cut from one ridge to another ... you will KNOW your pants are durable or not   It grows extensively in the Sierra Nevada's and is dense and knee to chest high super tough bushes with these annoying white thorns. 1 mile of hiking in White Thorn is like 10 miles.

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