Bill, Idaho posted:

Hypothetically speaking (as I will never own one of those damn things....)  

But what if a guy puts a "pistol brace" on one of those Tac14's?  You know someone is going to do it.  Would that then make it an SBS and therefore needing to papered? 

Not if it is an SB Tactical brace.  ATF issued them a letter that said putting a brace against the shoulder doesn't turn it into a stock.  But it was only sent to SB Tactical, not everyone in general.  So if you like the Blade, too bad.  Don't take videos of your exultation when you shoot it from the shoulder.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

The WP 870's are really works of art.  I bought in years ago and with some practice are lethal.  The birdshead pistol grip is ideal, recoil is nothing unless you are firing magnums.  But you are not going to be shooting magnums anyway with the plethora of "Tac" 12 gauge loads around.

As to the "Arm Brace" BS.  I cannot believe these things.  They serve no purpose but to jam people up later, when ATF or particular States, or press hungry Attorneys General change the playing field.  I don't even like to talk about Arm Braces, because they weaken the overall "Pro Gun" agenda.  Don't have one and never will.

JEHalloranIV posted:

That's cool Darryl...now I'm gonna have to get another one...dammit

I foresee another more “tactical” one at some point.  Likely a Robar/Vang version with my specs.  I am going to use this one to figure the gun and training out and then build another based on what improvements I think are needed.

Also....I highly recommend paying a lot of attention to Dorsai on this thread.  You are threading some legal issues that can result in federal felony level of consequence if you get it wrong, and you can have some legal issues even if you are right and others with the power to prosecute are wrong.  

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

I got one of these when they first came out and as soon as I got it home my wallet broke and in a few weeks this was the result. 

A local gunsmith and friend drilled and tapped the receiver for a rail and I’m using a Trijicon MRO in a low mount. Sent the barrel to VC and they ported the barrel installed a big dome head safety and metal follower. 

SB brace came later and an Aridus Industries shell carrier. 

The USMS was the original inspiration for me to get the TAC14. My late grandmother was a clerk for the USMS in East Saint Louis Illinois. I spent a lot of time in the office, not because I was in trouble. My mother worked and I went there after school etc. I remember talking with Deputies I became friends with and got to see their guns, one of them being the Witness Protection 870.

EFA7C79D-347E-4523-9FFC-B667C4C90D2B

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

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Black Aces Tactical is releasing one of these based on a Remington 1100 platform....but it won't be nearly as cheap.  My car gun is an older 870 Wingmaster from the good quality days.  The TAC 14 is built on the Express platform and I've heard of some QC issues....but for $250 it's kind of hard to pass up.  That wood and leather is gorgeous. 

De inimico non loquaris sed cogites.

I ve had several Express guns over the years and have just not seen all the monsterous issues.  I ordered a metal express magnum trigger group just because I like the metal on a gun like this.  I talked to Hans Vang today and he said that the plastic group functions fine with high round counts.  I find if the action bars aren’t tweaked and you simply shoot the gun the will all run fairly smooth.  

I should get to shoot mine in the AM.  I am looking forward to it.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

I am finding a side benefit to this project.  I get to clean out some parts drawers.  I have bunches of the Vang Safeties , so that was easy, along with a Vang Stainless steel magazine tube follower.  I noted this gun came with the short standard Remington 16” magazine tube spring.  It is fine for typical sporting guns with shell limiters and a two round load.  Not for a War Hammer.  Normally I am adding extensions and long springs, so I have some of the stock 870 Police standard springs which are 6 inches longer than the regular sporting ones.  Much more positive push on the shells, but harder to load.....which doesn’t matter because loading it should be a pre test to if you can handle a War Hammer. 

I am pretty excited to pattern it in the AM.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Thanks for the Express info. Recently found one in a Pawn shop for $200.00 Other than a small chip off the stock at the receiver, it was in good shape. Probably would have passed if it was a Wingmaster, especially a newer one. A stretch on the cash at the time, but not an everyday find and I wasn't walking away from it.  Vent rib barrel, too.

Dave

"Keep that cheap, wail'n slut quiet!" A.J. Maggott

C1E7A52F-DEDF-4157-964D-B3479BF4071DB6F033D4-1370-4156-BCEA-2D31CBA082D387B4DF6F-DBA3-4C49-B54A-CB7022CA95315656F5C8-AF70-4D56-95E8-DF70BF1B772CD17903ED-D3D4-406C-AC6D-5BDD36255C25331FBD1E-30CE-4431-8991-3BFDC6B9F938Patterned the gun this morning.  To say I am impressed is an understatement.  I used Federal 9 Pellet Flite Control. 5,10,15,20, and 25 yards. High Center chest hold. 

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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Here is the target after 25 rounds of birdshot using a speed presentation and shooting singles and pairs from about 12 yards.

1417F026-26D7-4CE8-87D6-2C138E8BFF24DDE994A7-A61B-4633-9AB9-6477EDC7EF42

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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This is how I drove to the range to give an idea of the niche this thing really fits into.  Also a picture of one of my lifetime hero’s using the Ithaca version in a similar role.

FA0E4ABE-C7A5-4984-8FEC-EAF0E8169E35CCA7BEF5-DA20-4AFD-8698-E657E9AB25FF

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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I agree with the earlier comment referencing you and Pat. The last picture is perfect. Thanks 

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

This is a good video by Thunder Ranch.  Mossberg rather than a Remington or Ithaca, but employment is the same.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

There is some magic in that barrel.

 Makes me wonder at what distance it would no longer throw an effective pattern with that ammo.

I bet some use and something like  NP3 plating would make for a slick action and relatively  rust free.

I've got to get one of these.     I don't need a stakeout gun but I can see me riding dirty on a Hoverround with that stashed under my leg quilt down at the old folks home.

 

 

stray round posted:

There is some magic in that barrel.

 Makes me wonder at what distance it would no longer throw an effective pattern with that ammo.

I bet some use and something like  NP3 plating would make for a slick action and relatively  rust free.

I've got to get one of these.     I don't need a stakeout gun but I can see me riding dirty on a Hoverround with that stashed under my leg quilt down at the old folks home.

 

 

Before you get to the old folks home find yourself and read a copy of Philip Jose Farmers’ “The Henry Miller Dawn Patrol”.  It’ll give you something to look forward to being cooped up in the home. 

“JC and the dude ranch”, same author is a good read, too. 

Both found in the book ”Riverworld and other short stories”.

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

The two barrels Hans did for me way back before most folks knew about Vang Comp have always been stellar.  I used the 19” one in a demo for our Chief of police and it patterned a full load of standard 00 Buck into a head at 25 Yards.  It was what sold him on letting me put 14” full house Vang 870’s in every car.  

I will likely do a HiTS Stakeout based on a Tac 14, NP3, Vang Barrel and Express or rifle Sights.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Clint's video is pure gold.  Every word was on point.  How to hold it, how to keep all your hands, etc.  And how many of you noticed that after every shot, while he was talking, he was quietly topping off the magazine with another round from the sidesaddle?

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Dagga Boy posted:

The two barrels Hans did for me way back before most folks knew about Vang Comp have always been stellar.  I used the 19” one in a demo for our Chief of police and it patterned a full load of standard 00 Buck into a head at 25 Yards.  It was what sold him on letting me put 14” full house Vang 870’s in every car.  

I will likely do a HiTS Stakeout based on a Tac 14, NP3, Vang Barrel and Express or rifle Sights.

DB, PM headed your way.

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Amazon delivery arrived with my Ukulele case.....

A14456EB-8F29-4AB6-8420-A78E0BA4FD7E7741DAB7-9A95-4AA5-ADFD-19E5304D6814

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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Dammit DB, you are gonna cost me money. I'd given up on a WWP, this had me thinking, and you've just about pushed me over the edge. And I've already got an old school Benelli m1 entry in jail right now, awaiting my tax stamp (actually my old duty gauge that got traded in before I retired.) I put a hold on that bitch with the distributor as soon as the ink was dry on the trade. I went through MANY a door with that baby. I love the shotgun.

Location: North Carolina

The 12 ga is a beautifully violent weapon and underrated in todays rifle centric LE world. 

The one ounce slug is a lethal longer range option and great for barrier penetration. I believe the FBI is going away from 00 due to over penetration issues with the 00 based on my last instructor class i did with them.

That being said , for those confined to the 00, the-controlled flight 00 is excellent even in the standard plain jane cylinder bore barrels in my experience 

I've put thousands of rounds through various 870's using 4,6,8 shot as well as 00 and slug. Really no issues save a few extraction issues with low brass. 

Proper instruction overcomes issues of recoil with small statured shooters in my experience and my new LE students dont show any more trepidation with that over the AR15 

My personal 870 is an 18" Police model with walnut stock and side saddle. I prefer it to my Benelli M1 for all around use. 

I wish my PD would authorize them again....

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

arcticlightfighter posted:

The 12 ga is a beautifully violent weapon and underrated in todays rifle centric LE world. 

The one ounce slug is a lethal longer range option and great for barrier penetration. I believe the FBI is going away from 00 due to over penetration issues with the 00 based on my last instructor class i did with them.

That being said , for those confined to the 00, the-controlled flight 00 is excellent even in the standard plain jane cylinder bore barrels in my experience 

I've put thousands of rounds through various 870's using 4,6,8 shot as well as 00 and slug. Really no issues save a few extraction issues with low brass. 

Proper instruction overcomes issues of recoil with small statured shooters in my experience and my new LE students dont show any more trepidation with that over the AR15 

My personal 870 is an 18" Police model with walnut stock and side saddle. I prefer it to my Benelli M1 for all around use. 

I wish my PD would authorize them again....

Funny you say that, I'm actually taking my departments shotgun course next month to add my Beretta 1301 to my squad car along with my AR. It will probably become my go to for felony stops due to our ARs being limited by ammo not exactly meant for barrier penetration. 125 man department and I'd guess maybe 45 qual with rifles, maybe 30 regularly carry it then. I'd wager no more than 10-15 carry shotguns and only about 2 others that carry both. Federal Low Recoil Truball Slugs are our issued 12ga round, no buck shot for us.

--------------------------------------

Joined: 9/1/12

009629BD-A135-4B75-B8A4-C699320A9236Found the perfect patch for the covert case...

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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Dagga Boy posted:

009629BD-A135-4B75-B8A4-C699320A9236Found the perfect patch for the covert case...

I saw my e-mail preview and Tiny Tim popped into my head. Tiptoe thru the tulips....nevermind. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Hi all,

For me, the Tac14 is just and experiment and a range gun.  I had a bunch of parts pulled from a real 870, which I've hung or installed and have a steel trigger set of I think I need it. 

I have avoided the SB braces for the ARs as it seemed "like a trap" and I have a fully stamped SBR and enough carbines that have a brace for An AR and no pistol lower didn't seem like a good idea. 

I bit on the shotgun brace due to price and just because. I may keep it on,  or uninstall and sell it. I do keep a copy of the letter the manufacture provides as well as a copy of the one from ATF when I take it to the range, just in case they would assuage concerns of a RSO or more importantly an LEO who sees it. 

Finally, I have an XS Swage to smoothly remove the dimples from the magazine tube of you wish to install a Vang or other follower and don't want to fool around with YouTube solutions.  I loan it to LF'ers for mailing costs if needed. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

“Speak softly and carry a big stick;  you will go far. “

 Theodore Roosevelt

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Joined: 29 May 2008          Location: AZ

B0308 posted:

Hi all,

For me, the Tac14 is just and experiment and a range gun.  I had a bunch of parts pulled from a real 870, which I've hung or installed and have a steel trigger set of I think I need it. 

I have avoided the SB braces for the ARs as it seemed "like a trap" and I have a fully stamped SBR and enough carbines that have a brace for An AR and no pistol lower didn't seem like a good idea. 

I bit on the shotgun brace due to price and just because. I may keep it on,  or uninstall and sell it. I do keep a copy of the letter the manufacture provides as well as a copy of the one from ATF when I take it to the range, just in case they would assuage concerns of a RSO or more importantly an LEO who sees it. 

Finally, I have an XS Swage to smoothly remove the dimples from the magazine tube of you wish to install a Vang or other follower and don't want to fool around with YouTube solutions.  I loan it to LF'ers for mailing costs if needed. 

 

When I bought it, I was pretty much in the same boat.  “This should be a ball”.  After messing around with it quite a bit and a recent job change has made me rethink it.   I think for a vast majority of folks....they are better served with a full stocked shotgun, which is still my go to.  For a short gun, I would take my AUG or SAM 7 SF both with Aimpoints over this thing any day of the week, so I want to make sure nobody thinks I have totally lost all sense of reason.  

Texas is interesting in how things work in armed security world. I will be headed back into the higher end Armed stuff.  With my Texas licensing I can carry a pistol or revolver, and the only long gun I can use is a 12 ga. Shotgun with only 9 pellet 00 Buck.  Now for most cases, my Beretta TX4 or Benelli M1 or M2 will get the nod.  The problem is typical shotgun stuff of length.  If that is not an issue, then all good.  Where I find the Tac 14 to be a fit is where I would like access to a shotgun, but want to be super discrete, and travel easy.  This fits the bill. It is legal in most places, and the few places it isn’t, an easily swapped longer barrel takes care of that.  Ammo.....everywhere.    The main thing I need is something easy to travel with that is not much harder to pack than my handguns, and most importantly, legal.  The AUG, AR’s or AK’s present numerous legal issues.  So this comes down to my Brockman 30/30 that is not legal on my Texas licensing, or a 12 gauge.  For my niche....it actually works.  For most folks....very cool toy.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't choke have more of an impact on spread pattern than barrel length?  That's what I was taught, at some point.

And since we're not talking about bird barrels, all the 870 LE/tactical barrels are "fixed cylinder choke."  No?

Of course there would be a pattern difference between a 24" barrel and a 14" barrel, but for most of the LE/HD shotguns, I don't think we're going to see much difference between an 18" and a 14" barrel.

At least that's my observation, since I've converted about 2 dozen or so of my agency shotguns to 14" barrels.  Federal flite control 9 pellet 00 puts them all inside of a TranstarrII target at 25 yards.  Could probably get away with 30 yards, but not much more.

 

HazardZetForward posted:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't choke have more of an impact on spread pattern than barrel length?  That's what I was taught, at some point.

And since we're not talking about bird barrels, all the 870 LE/tactical barrels are "fixed cylinder choke."  No?

Of course there would be a pattern difference between a 24" barrel and a 14" barrel, but for most of the LE/HD shotguns, I don't think we're going to see much difference between an 18" and a 14" barrel.

At least that's my observation, since I've converted about 2 dozen or so of my agency shotguns to 14" barrels.  Federal flite control 9 pellet 00 puts them all inside of a TranstarrII target at 25 yards.  Could probably get away with 30 yards, but not much more.

 

Basically.....yes, sort of...;-).  I have found barrels are all a bit different, which is why patterning is so important.  It is why I have many of my barrels are either given the Vang Comp treatment to ensure consistent patterning with any load.  My other guns either have choke systems or have been proven to pattern consistently.  Over the years, I have seen huge variances in shotgun barrels with both my close to two decades of cop guns and teaching in the private sector.  I have had guns show up in class where I have told a homeowner “never take this outside” because the gun was only able to sort of hold a B27 to about 10 yards.  Meanwhile, my 19 Vang barrel will hold a B27 head to 25 yards with regular 00 Buck.  This is all important and is often missed in the whole world of shotguns that is filled with myth and conjecture espoused by people who should spend more time on a range than a TV for information.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Any blued/parkeried shotty should have wood furniture and leather sling IMO especially pump  shotties

That being said my Benelli is factory tactical. Got a 24” M2 BBL for my M1 S90 for 3 gun with all synthetic furniture..just sayin 

"Without training they lack knowlege, without knowlege they lack discipline , without discipline they lack victory"

 

“Go as hard as you can, for as long as you can, and then quit.”

 

Joined: October 2, 2007

HazardZetForward posted:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't choke have more of an impact on spread pattern than barrel length?  That's what I was taught, at some point.

And since we're not talking about bird barrels, all the 870 LE/tactical barrels are "fixed cylinder choke."  No?

The TAC14's are cylinder bore, most LE barrels are either Improved Cylinder (most in my experience) or Cylinder.

Of course there would be a pattern difference between a 24" barrel and a 14" barrel, but for most of the LE/HD shotguns, I don't think we're going to see much difference between an 18" and a 14" barrel.

At least that's my observation, since I've converted about 2 dozen or so of my agency shotguns to 14" barrels.  Federal flite control 9 pellet 00 puts them all inside of a TranstarrII target at 25 yards.  Could probably get away with 30 yards, but not much more.

 

I'd suggest you get a set of Brush Research Shotgun Flex Hones - chamber, bore, and forcing cone:

http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c2=6

You should be able to tell the difference between before and after patterns.

DLehr posted:
HazardZetForward posted:

 

...

I'd suggest you get a set of Brush Research Shotgun Flex Hones - chamber, bore, and forcing cone:

http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c2=6

You should be able to tell the difference between before and after patterns.

Have heard (back when Shotguns Were King) many folks have good results with this sort of stuff. And a few who should not be allowed around tools who screwed up their guns. 

I did clean up a barrel on a Mossberg long ago (getting slightly cleanup of groups, etc) with some non-shotgun-specific methods. 

Looking at the link, may I be terrified by the grits provided? 800 is the finest one? For polishing, I am thinking only numbers with commas in them. Someone tell me why I am wrong. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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