Since the other revolver topic was related to back up types, and we started to veer off, I wanted to start a thread on full size "combat revolvers". There some guys here who carried them on duty, and I think we could learn a thing or two.

 I've acquired a revolver or tow over the years and currently have 4, all S&W pre-lock.

 1x M36-1 j frame Sq butt 3"

 1x M586 L frame Sq butt 6" adj front sight

 2x M13-3 K frame Sq butt 3"

 

 While I have no delusions of these being picked as the Army's new handgun, or rescuing hostages with one, I do have an interest in making a limited investment in time and money to shoot them a bit better. I believe it will make me a better pistol shooter in general and a more rounded shooter overall. Here are some thought's/questions I've come up with doing some research.

 

 Make:

 I owned a Colt Detective Special, Diamondback and Trooper MKIII. Nice guns, probably as good as anything, but the reality is Colt smiths are few and far between and backed up. Parts are dwindling, and people will pay astronomical prices for a rusty nail with that horsey on it.

 That leaves S&W and Ruger. No real experience with the Rugers, but no reason to believe they are not gtg. I just happen to have all Smiths.

 

 Models/Size:

 I think the 3" K frame is the G19 of the revolver world. The 4" L frame closer to the G17/1911

 

 Calibre:

 I used to own a M25 in 45LC. Neat gun, but at the end of the day, it was a lot of gun that didn't offer a lot over a 1911 for it's size. Or a K/L frame gun for that matter.

 Right now, I am leaning toward .38+P at being just about the best balance of power vs recoil. Call me a puss, but full house magnums are not what I wanna spend the whole day shooting. Enough people I trust feel the 38 was no detriment when they carried it, that I think it's gtg.

 

 Sights:

 While even amongst auto shooters, people will say no "real combat gun" has adjustable sights. I guess no one told that to the real deal guys I know who take adj sighted pistols into combat regularly. I would much prefer adj sights, it just makes life easier. Mu M36 shoots about 4" low and right at 25yds, and that's just not acceptable to me.

 

 Grips:

 I've been racking my brain and lurking in many forums the last few weeks over this. It's a tough pill to swallow to spend $150+ on a set of custom grips and not be sure you'll even like them. Mass produced grips never seem to fit right, with palm swells & finger grooves in the wrong place. Bowling pin wood finishes, etc.

 I'm really starting to think the old school Pachmayr's might be the best compromise, at least on a duty/open carry type set up, where they will with stand some abuse. They are cheap, apparently can be doctored a bit, aren't as sticky as Hogues, but offer some grip over the bowling pin type finish.

 Two guys I worked with used to shoot a lot of PPC, one still does. neither of them seemed to think spending big money on grips was worth it. The current shooter, used foam to mod a set of hogues. I just found two different types of Pach's that have been discontinued, Small presentations, with no finger grooves or palm swells, I'm hoping these work well for my 586. The two M13's have Pachmayr compac's with the covered back strap. They seem to work well also...more shooting will tell. 

Having said that, a set of old mass produced Herretts is in my future and possibly a set of custom made one........possibly.

 

 Of course grips leads to this question...finger placement. I've got smaller hands. I can get my trigger finger into the trigger so the crease of my first joint is at the right side of the trigger face..is that about right? More, less? this feels like I can manipulate the DA trigger fairly well. The PPC guy says that should be gtg.

 

 Custom work:

 Not sure I'm ready to dump a bunch of money into these side track guns, but, as some other projects get finished, I wouldn't mind getting some moderate work done. Maybe the combat revolver package from S&W for the K frames and Master action job for the L.

 

 Anything else? thoughts? experience?

 

 ETA: I didn't join S&W forums to talk revolvers because they talk about fit and finish, soul, blah blah blah...not really interested in a bunch of glock or M&P bashing, etc.

 

Bob

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Original Post

I don't really have anything to offer here, except to say that I've got a Taurus Model 80 with a 4" barrel that I've been wanting to spend some more quality time with.

 

Frankly, I'd love to use it as a daily carry piece, since it weighs less than my CZ, but finding a concealment holster for a Model 80 ain't the easiest thing in the world apparently.

______________________

"WHERE ANGELS AND MARINES FEAR TO TREAD, THERE YOU'LL FIND A CORPSMAN DEAD." - Written on the back of a dead Corpsman's shirt, the Solomon Islands, August, 1942 I'm humbled to call myself one of them.

quote:
Originally posted by Timmy: I don’t carry a gun because I think I’m going to get into a gun fight. I carry because I don’t want to miss the OPPORTUNITY to get into a gun fight.

I have small hands also and use the same trigger placement as you describe.  Works for me.  For your K-Frame square butts, try to find a pair of the old Uncle Mike's Boot Grips. They're copied from Craig Spegel's design, are a non-sticky rubber compound, and fill the space behind the trigger guard with out increasing size very much at all. They do have a "finger bump" at the front much like a smooth contoured AR15A2 grip though.

 

I never liked the square butt in j's and they don't have much available in the grip market.

 

J. R. 

Originally Posted by X-ray Dave:

I believe that the Taurus Model 80 is a copy of the S&W Mod 10. K frame holsters for a 4 inch bbl should work.

 

Dave.

Sweet. Much appreciated.

______________________

"WHERE ANGELS AND MARINES FEAR TO TREAD, THERE YOU'LL FIND A CORPSMAN DEAD." - Written on the back of a dead Corpsman's shirt, the Solomon Islands, August, 1942 I'm humbled to call myself one of them.

quote:
Originally posted by Timmy: I don’t carry a gun because I think I’m going to get into a gun fight. I carry because I don’t want to miss the OPPORTUNITY to get into a gun fight.

I'm a revolver fan as well, and have a bunch.  My favorite by far is a 4" Model 66 no-dash that was the second handgun I ever bought (after a 1911).  It came with the old-school Pachmayr grips and I ran it that way for a long time.  Finally got sick of the finger bumps being in the wrong spot and bought some monstrous Herrett wood target grips from CDNN for like $15.  Bolted them on and took a Dremel, files, and sandpaper to them until they looked like a version of the smooth Miculek grips made for human hands.  J.M. has some enormous dickskinners, and his proprietary grips just won't work for me.  Made a world of difference in how the 66 shoots and carries.

 

Gave it to my Dad since he didn't have a good HD pistol and a GP100 took that slot in the safe, but it's not the same. 

 

Also a fan of the Ruger Security Six 2.75" with a Tyler T-grip.  Great sturdy "fighting" revolver, sized sort of between the K and L frames.

 

My grail is one of the old 3" heavy barrel Smiths that the FBI carried.  Anyone have pictures or info on those?

 

"Speed's fine, but accuracy is final" - Bill Jordan

Duty revolvers I've owned or been issued:

 

Model 66 4"

Model 19 2 1/2"

Model 28 6"

Model 66 2 1/2"

Model 36 2"

Model 15 4"

Model 10 - built into a PPC gun.

Model 25 - 6 1/2" - 45ACP

 

I shot my briefcase box of Magnums once a month - Federal .357 165gr JSP - as well as all the training ammo the other officers didn't shoot.

 

If I had to face shoot a guy with one of my kids hostage, I'm still not sure I wouldn't opt for that old worn out Model 15 .38  over anything else I've carried.

 

Grips - Pachmayr's, Presentations on the full-size; Compacs or factory wood with Tyler grip adapters on the 2 1/2"

 

I do not like the actions on Colt revolvers, I can feel them stack, just my preference. 

 

The Model 28 rode in a Hoyt breakfront and I sent it off to a guy named Cap Cresap (IIRC) to have Ltronic Night Sights installed.  He did an excellent job of installing what I assume were LEDs - one in the front sight and two in the back. He drilled down that skinny rib on the 28, and then from the area of the rear sight through the frame and side plate, ending with a pressure switch built into the Pachmayrs.  I think I paid $105.00 in 1977 dollars to have that done and the weapon hard chromed.  Bad ass!  Only problem was I forgot to tell him I was a leftie and he placed the pressure switch for a rightie.

 

The thing I noticed about police revolver shooters when we started doing more practical training on knock down steel was that if a revolver shooter missed a shot on a plate you would usually see them 'grab' the front sight and hit the next shot.  With the auto the average police shooter would miss, and then just keep pressing until finally one hit.  If you get my point.

 

We used to arch the main spring and some guys would cut a coil or two off the trigger rebound spring - I never did.  Today you just buy what you want after market.

 

I like smooth triggers and have always used the finger placement you described.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by duckhunter6:

 

My grail is one of the old 3" heavy barrel Smiths that the FBI carried.  Anyone have pictures or info on those?

 

 

 

 How's this?

 

IMG_20131215_201316_276

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Attachments

Photos (1)

Some comments...

The Speed/Security six guns are pretty much K frame. They take K frame speed loaders...

Re carry.
Until the Speed Six came out I carried a M10 4" in plainclothes and off duty, with a speed reload.
I am not big, but there were a lot of holster makers that put out some very good carry rigs that didn't cost a weeks paycheck to by.

The issue Service Grips on the Smiths and Ruger were good with a Tyler T adopter.
I have used the Pachmyer and Magna on my Service Revolver .

Re 'smiths. At one time there were as many revolver 'smiths as there are *instructors* now.
Except that most of them were pretty functional.

Finding good ones for the Colt and S&W guns now is tough, and revolvers are pretty fragile items.

Aside for sentimental reasons, I wouldn't consider Colt or S&W for serious shooting.
The Ruger is a pretty strong gun, and the action is accessible.


Like Bob, piss on 357. Their are a lot of good .38Spec loads that do very well without pain, poor shot to shot time and pain.

I have a few .45 Colt revolvers, and enjoy shooting them, but unlike Nyeti, we were limited to fixed sight, blue steel S&W M1o and when they were still available, Colt Official Police, and only in. .38 Spec.

I would prefer not to carry a revolver for a primary gun anymore, but if I did, I would, and wouldn't blink.

Originally Posted by R.Moran:
Originally Posted by duckhunter6:

 

My grail is one of the old 3" heavy barrel Smiths that the FBI carried.  Anyone have pictures or info on those?

 

 

 

 How's this?

 

IMG_20131215_201316_276

Bob- the 3" round butt would have been in my armory, but they didn't authorize them until the year before I retired and and didn't see the sense.
I wish I had one now...

Originally Posted by Pat _Rogers:



I would prefer not to carry a revolver for a primary gun anymore, but if I did, I would, and wouldn't blink.

 

 Agreed.

 Thanks for the insight, the only thing I know about Rugers is they are akin to hamburgers, apparently.

 I was actually surprised Colt fixed my DS when they did. I thought for sure they're were gonna tell me I was shit outta luck.

 

 k frame smith are everywhere, and S&W still makes revolvers, as does Ruger...no brainer there.

 

 I just won another M13 3" on GB, should be here next week. It looks a bit rougher then the one in the pic. Another GB, lets see what he wants for it bid gone awry

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Originally Posted by R.Moran:
Originally Posted by duckhunter6:

 

My grail is one of the old 3" heavy barrel Smiths that the FBI carried.  Anyone have pictures or info on those?

 

 

 

 How's this?

 

IMG_20131215_201316_276

 

That thing is SWEET!  Parkerized, bobbed hammer, wood grips with Tyler T, and a big honkin' gold bead front sight is what I'm thinking.

 

"Speed's fine, but accuracy is final" - Bill Jordan

This post makes me miss a 3" Mod.19, round butt and full ejection rod shroud I was issued many moons ago and far, far away. Loaded with 38 +P THVs it was a pleasure to shoot and I never doubted its capacity to perform when needed (as far as handguns go...). The only mods we were allowed were Pachmayrs like the ones in the pic above.

I wonder whatever happened to those after more modern sidearms were adopted.

 

...........................................................................................................................

Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm.

Horsehide, the grips are out there. Found a pair today in the $5.00 box at a LGS today.

Grabbed them and a  pair of Mershons for a N frame. The Mershons are marked Los  Angeles 15 CA. Put Hogue 6200 grips on my bobbed 2 inch 64, shrinks it down to a fat J frame. I did thru all the "junk boxes" and find nice grips often.

 

Dave

"Keep that cheap, wail'n slut quiet!" A.J. Maggott

I'm in good company.  I have:

 

4" S&W M19 with Hogue grips

4" S&W M19 roundbutt (did it myself) with Hogue grips

2 1/2" S&W M66 with Pachmayer roundbutt grips

4" S&W M586 factory roundbutt with Hogue grips

 

Just a side note.  We were issued 6" skinny barrel M10's when I was in San Diego.  I quickly replaced that with a 4" 581, and a couple of years later, the 586 roundbutt.  I had a Colt Detective for a backup.

 

2" S&W M442 with Hogue bantam grips

6 1/2" S&W M629 with Hogue grips

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

These M19 we had also had fixed sights.

They looked like a M13 with a full ejection rod shroud.

The frames were marked as 19, but I do not remember what the "dash number" was.

...........................................................................................................................

Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm.

 

 

 The grips in the pic are pachmayr compac's. they are still made and available.

 

 At two different times I owned a 586 w/ a round butt and a matte bead blasted type finish. Supposedly some sort of special run or over run. They both got stolen at different times. A friend recently had one and sold it. I also had a 586 no dash, that I quickly traded for the M13 pictured above.

 

 They did make 3" Model 19's w/ adjustable sights. They are rare and expensive when you find them.

 If S&W made their new 66 in a 3", it would be just about as good as it gets.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Revolvers?  Let me sing you the song of my people.

 

i am doing this from memory so I think I currently own.

 

 Oh just FYI all I own for DA revolvers are Smiths. 

 

34 kit gun in .22 lr 4"

63 kit gun in .22 LR 4" 

651 Kit gun in 22 mag 4"

442 in 38 spec +p

642 in 38 spec +p

66 2.5" DA only

66 3",Da only

66 4" DA only 

10 6" 1" dia bull barrel by Bill Davis with a Tasco dot for,Nra Action (bianchi cup)

10 6" 1" dia bull barrel and Power Grandmaster rib smithed by Ron Power himself for PPC

686 4"

325 PD 2.5" N Scandium N frame in 45 ACP

329'PD 4" N Scandium N frame in 44 Mag 

21 TR Special in 44 special

Another tr special I forget the model in 45 Colt IIRC

629 6" with a custom Shillouette front sight DA only from when I shot bowling pins competitively 

625 Moutain Gun in 45 ACP DA only

625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt

629 Mountain Gun in 44 Mag DA only 

 

I think hunk there are a couple more hiding around here cause my count is off.

 

but like Pat I would have no,issues if I had to get into a fight with one. I have shot them so much and imstill practice with them regularly that I can still,speed loaf awful fast.

 

hpwver my daily carry is a G19 and a snubbie as a back up

 

the wheel,guns get relegated to wods and hunting guns 

 

I own only Smith DA guns because you can't get as nice an action as you can on a Ruger.

 

conversely I onlynown Ruger,single,actions because the Smiths won't take the higher pressure loads tha the Rugers just eat up.

 

 

 

 

___________________________ "Heres your E ticket, the train to Poserville leaves in an hour, be on it... And take your BB gun with ya, puke..." ~The crappier the town, the more likely you can become a hero.~ ~Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. One eye is taken for an eye.~

I have seen that fixed sight variant of the M19 on the S&W forum. The ones with adjustable sights are rare; the ones with fixed sights are nearly unicorns. I think they are 19-3s and 19P, but don't quote me on that. The 3" RB M66s out there (66-3s, IIRC) are heavily sought for carry by the revolver fans, and prices reflect that, but they are at least affordable enough (sort) of, that one could carry/shoot one and not feel bad. I think the RBs are better for carry, and may some day have the butt of my M66 4" (w/S&W action work and gold bead front) chopped by a good gunsmith. People handy with the rights tools do it themselves. People like me are smart enough to know that the right tool for this job is a checkbook. I use the short barrel gold dots in it.

 

I still have my first duty revolver, an M58. It's been customized now, with electroless nickel and a fiber optic front sight. Used it for my first LEOSA qual. Did ok, but the indoor range didn't allow lead ammo, so I had to use the Gold Dot hunting load. Not fun to shoot at all, and I got cussed at and about due to the noise and concussion. I have two other 4" N frames. One is a .44 Magnum Mountain gun (629-4). I have a few hundred of the .44 special gold dot and some snake shot loads. The other was a .44 magnum, but I had Bowen convert it to .45ACP, put some more visible sights on it, etc. Shoots like a laser. Damned fool use of money from an objective viewpoint. The same Kramer MSP paddle for all 3 - I really like that holster. Had one for my USP45 and it worked like a dream.

 

I also have an M14 - the K38. It makes me look like a good shot if I concentrate. It's just fun to shoot. My M940 is not fun to shoot, even with the LG405 cushioned laser grip. I am going to have some work done on it (Horvath has been suggested). It is useful though, especially for air travel, since the ammo logistics with a Glock 19L are easier. It would replace my 296 as a fanny pack gun when travelling. The 296 is butt ugly, kinda big and clunky, but with .44 gold dots, great for walking the dog etc. I find it less obnoxious to shoot than a J frame with .38 +P, but opinions seem to vary a lot on that.

 

My big problem with fixed sights on revolvers is that they are hard to pick up in a hurry. My crummy vision has been made worse with age and the damage done during the period of undiagnosed high blood sugar. I also simply need to work more with the revolvers and a good class/instructor. I find them harder to shoot well at speed than an autopistol, and they take more work to be good. Or something. I don't feel as though my performance with one is what it should be. I pretty much don't carry most of them except as a BUG or as a bigger BUG in the car on trips.

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

www.routledge.com/9781138302969 (NOTE: Live Link)

Currently revolverless... started out on a 4" Model 10 HB, and a Security-Six 4".

 

Later on, had a 581 4".

 

For shooting magnums and shooting a lot in general, always preferred the Hogue rubber monogrip. Grippy, recoil reducing and they fit me.

 

They're too grippy for concealment though, so if I had to go that route i'd probably go checkered wood or maybe some Pachmayrs.

 

The little 649 snubbie I had came with factory wood and stayed that way. But for a full size gun and openly carried (ie duty gun) I'd still choose the Monogrip.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I don't know if it is wisdom, experience, or just being an old fart, but most of the "young" guys I encounter don't understand what a good shooter a revolver can be.  They fixate on 6 rounds in the cylinder vs. 15+ in the magazine.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I EDC'd a 686+ Mountain Gun for a while. Relatively easily concealable IWB. The MG configuration is light enough to carry, but stout enough that it doesn't beat the shit out of you. I could put a box through it at the range without thinking it sucked.

 

Like Pat mentioned about 'smithing revolvers, I was/am on of those, but only on S&W's. They are ridiculously easy to smooth out. I never tried to make one a race gun. I 'll never try to do the same on a Ruger double action.

 

With our mag laws, 7 rounds of .357 isn't bad.

---------------------------------

 

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Younger guy here. My only revolver right now is a 642. The first handguns I shot were D/A S&W's, K & L frames that belonged to my uncles and cousins.

I don't know if its just me, but I've always felt the long smooth DA pull on a revolver helped with accuracy. It seems like it gives you time to refine (or adjust) your sight picture as you're pulling the trigger, vs a Striker fired pistol where I had/ have to work harder to avoid pulling a shot due to bad trigger press or jerk.

And finally a question for guys who shot revolver in competition and for work.
When engaging multiple targets did/ do you start the trigger pull as you move the gun to the next target, or did you have a good sight picture on the next target before you began pressing the trigger? - Thanks.
Joined 1/11/12  location: Alabama

for competition I am already starting to stage the trigger for the next shot while I am moving from one target to the next or while I am coming back on target in PPC and then just roll,it,on through when I have the sight picture I desire.

___________________________ "Heres your E ticket, the train to Poserville leaves in an hour, be on it... And take your BB gun with ya, puke..." ~The crappier the town, the more likely you can become a hero.~ ~Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. One eye is taken for an eye.~

Originally Posted by Pat _Rogers:


The issue Service Grips on the Smiths and Ruger were good with a Tyler T adopter.

My Taurus has one of these, and I was really surprised at how comfortable the grip is with it.

 

When a buddy of mine told me the pawn shop had one of these, my mind instantly planned on swapping grips. Hogue, Pachmyers, something else. With this Tyler T adapter? Nah. I'll save my money.

______________________

"WHERE ANGELS AND MARINES FEAR TO TREAD, THERE YOU'LL FIND A CORPSMAN DEAD." - Written on the back of a dead Corpsman's shirt, the Solomon Islands, August, 1942 I'm humbled to call myself one of them.

quote:
Originally posted by Timmy: I don’t carry a gun because I think I’m going to get into a gun fight. I carry because I don’t want to miss the OPPORTUNITY to get into a gun fight.
Originally Posted by hasher:

for competition I am already starting to stage the trigger for the next shot while I am moving from one target to the next or while I am coming back on target in PPC and then just roll,it,on through when I have the sight picture I desire.

 

Yup!  It's amazing how effective a good long DA pull can be when you can consistently stage it for the next shot.  As a kid I started out with a single action .22 and didn't know anything about DA revolvers.  Fast forward a couple of years an the Model 66 was an impulse buy, but really made me appreciate a good DA trigger.  It's hard to beat the action of a leaf spring Smith, although Colt wheelguns have a pretty devoted following.  I just can't throw down that kind of money for a Python that would end up being a safe queen.

 

 

"Speed's fine, but accuracy is final" - Bill Jordan

Being younger . . . ish, I am a dyed in the wool auto guy.  Oddly, I have more S&W J frames than I do weapons by other mfgrs.

 

Revolvers sold over the years:

625-7

Performance Center Model 19

629

Uberti Schofield in .45 Colt

 

Current - all J frames

640

642

340PD in .38 Special (yes, you read that right)

342 TI

317 Airlite

 

 

_________________________

In yon strait path a thousand
May well be stopped by three.
Now who will stand on either hand,

And keep the bridge with me?

 

I like revolvers don't carry them much as primarys but I have a few: 

Ruger 4in stainless service six .357

S&W 4in and 3in model 66

S&W 2 1/2in M-19 Canadian Police Trade in

S&W 4 in M-10 heavy barrel

S&W 2in M-12,

S&W stainless Mountain Gun  4in 45 colt

S&W 6 in M-25 45 colt

S&W 3inHB model 547 in 9mm

S&W model 638 airweight

a 3rd gen colt detective special with colt hammer shroud

 

 All the S&Ws except the 638 are pre lock. My preferred .357 load is the Golden Saber 125 grain load, it's a mid range load and recoil is very manageable out of the K frame guns .The .45 colts get the silver tip or the Federal LHP load.The .38s get LHP +P or the new critical defense lite 90 load. When I started LE my department had mandated semi autos for 3 years and only grandfathered revolvers were allowed. I left a few years later and it was well into the new century before the last hold out retired or switched to a square gun. Revolvers are fun guns and backups but as several here have said I wouldn't be afraid of carrying several to defend myself.

Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. - Capt. Mal

Bob, 

 

Glad you created this thread. You know I have a soft spot in my heart for revolvers. 

 

I don't think I will be carrying a revolver any time soon other than my 3" M65 on a random occasion. So, Ive been looking at larger revolvers to play with on the range. The S&W Performance Center revolvers are really appealing to me. The 986 Pro Series is at the top of the list. If you don't know, its a 5", 7 shot, 9mm revolver. There is no practical reason for me to buy a $1K revolver like the 986, but I sure as hell want it. 

 

There is one revolver that I sold that I wish I hadn't. A 4" 586 with a matte blue finish. It was a dream to shoot and looked (to me) like the ultimate combat revolver. If I ever find another one like it, I'll have to buy it. 

-------------------------
"Ignorance is a virus. Once it starts spreading, it can only be cured by reason. For the sake of humanity, we must be that cure."

 

 

Dan,

 That's the 586 I was talking about. I'm still looking to replace mine.

 As far as the 986, see my thread on "just because" guns.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

I've had several revolvers over the years and most of them I wished I still had. Sold or traded them for the latest new toys. Besides my small collection of J frames I have 2 N frames. 

 

A S&W 28-2. Took the wood grips off and installed some VZ grips. I shoot more .38 through it than .357. I like the fact that both are good.

 

i recently traded into a S&W 544 Texas Sesquicentennial with a felt lined box in 44-40. I think it falls into the "just because" section of my armory. If I decide to keep it I'm going to need to reload for it. 

 

 

LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

Bob:

 

I shoot a Security Six in IDPA. .38s are cheap and easy to reload, so you can afford to shoot a bunch. IDPA with a revolver teaches you to be a problem solver and make your shots count. While the stages in IDPA are supposed to be revolver neutral, they usually aren't. So, just like real life, it's not "fair" and requires some thought on your part.

 

Enjoy the wheelgun.


 

Duty, Honor, Country.

1LT Williams & SPC Hosford, 33rd IBCT ILARNG, SGT Chavers & SPC Johnson, 48th IBCT GAARNG - KIA 06JUL09 FOB Kunduz, Afghanistan. RIP Warriors, you are not forgotten.

Bob, Dan,

Is this the one you're talking about?  Other than working on the action and the springs, it is still the way I bought it 20+ years ago.

IMG_0622

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

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 Dorsai,

 If it's matte finished that would be it.

 

 Here's my M36-1 3". It's rough, but I only paid $100 for it.

 

IMG_20150201_204646_926

 

 IIRC S&W doesn't offer any action jobs for the J frame, but I will check again. Otherwise, I'm thinking of Karl Sokul, to correct the POA/I & a basic action job and refinish. Saw a set of Herretts on GB, NIB, turns out they are at a shop local to another LFer, he checked them out and said they are GTG, so that might happen. The Pach's are not bad though.

 I bought a Galco Hornet(?) for it, and shoot standard velocity. Its shoots 4-5" low right, so I don't shoot it much. Neat little gun.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

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Photos (1)

Yeah, it's matte.  I've been collecting guns so my kids start off with a good arsenal.  They've all got an AR, AK, SA handgun and a revolver.  Plus the ones that they don't get until I'm dead.  Anyway, I let my son choose which one of the revolvers he wanted and he picked the 586. 

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I picked up a 4" 686 (7 shot) to carry for court, inspections, and other functions last year. It took a couple of months to get comfortable with it but has been a blast to train with. Like what was said earlier about having to think more, I agree with it. Will it replace my auto for patrol use, no but improving my proficiency with a wheel gun has helped my overall pistol skills.   

For those looking for S&W revolver work I have a buddy who has used the Sand Burr Gun Ranch Gun located in Rochester Indiana , Dennis Riechard  gunsmith. A buddy has a couple J frames he has had worked over there that are slick that are slick.

Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave. - Capt. Mal

I will second Denny Reicherdt for gun work. Denny is a retired Rochester PD DetectI've and his duty gun was usually a heavily engraved 6" 629.

 

and don't bet against him running a wheel,gun. I did the Advanced course at Chapman Academy with him. His ammomwas a 5 gallon bucket of hot reloads. Took to hwlp him get it out of,the trunk.  The man shot them all,week and we shat a lot,at lunch and after class and it was full,power loads all,the time.

 

He has done 3 guns for me and the actions were top notch. 

___________________________ "Heres your E ticket, the train to Poserville leaves in an hour, be on it... And take your BB gun with ya, puke..." ~The crappier the town, the more likely you can become a hero.~ ~Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. One eye is taken for an eye.~

Wish I hadn't sold the S&W13 I went through the academy with.  Grips; I've always been fond of the Pachmayr's on my K&L frame square butts.  I used to go the T-grip way with my J & K round butt backups.  These days I'm a big fan of the VZ grips on both.

 

 

 

______________________

Hey y'all, watch this . . .

 

 Truckcop,

 What's the story on the two in the first pic. They look very nice.

 

 I thought about VZ's, I think they make them for a K square, but again, playing the grip game get's expensive, and really don't know if you like them or not, until it's to late. Kinda like holsters and boots.

 I played the grip game with 1911's, in the end USGI wood, or factory Colt rubber or Pach's were as good as anything, I guess.

 

 Anybody have any suggestions on holsters?

 I ordered a custom rig for my 586 from Jim Ryan, who said he could accommodate the adjustable front sight.

 Looking at perhaps a Lobo leather combat classic for the 3" M13, or maybe something from Jeffrey custom.

 

Bob

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 Truckcop,

 What's the story on the two in the first pic. They look very nice.

 

Bob

Top one started life as a 6" 686 I used for PPC.  My issued Smith 65 duty gun wasn't bulky or heavy enough for me so I sent the 686 to Andy Cannon for his "Street L" treatment.  Barrel shortened to 4" with integral comp, trigger job to double-action only, bead-blasted finish.  He did other mods (bobbed hammer, rounded butt) but I didn't take it that far.

 

The second gun is a 65, 3" round butt.  Except for the VZ's, all factory. 

______________________

Hey y'all, watch this . . .

Truckcop,

That model 65 with the shrouded ejector rod is pretty unique. You don't see many K Frames like that and especially not in a 3" gun. It makes for an even tougher carry gun. I wish my M65 came like that.

The 686 is also a sweet looking revolver. When I first saw it I tho

-------------------------
"Ignorance is a virus. Once it starts spreading, it can only be cured by reason. For the sake of humanity, we must be that cure."

 

 

 Thanks, I thought the 65 might have been a lady smith.

 Very nice, I'm gonna google andy cannon

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 

 Thanks, I thought the 65 might have been a lady smith.

 Very nice, I'm gonna google andy cannon

If I weren't so old and not secure in what's left of my manhood I'd say, No!  Not a LADYSMITH.  Not me!  But, you are correct sir.

Andy passed away a number of years ago.  Unfortunate.  He was a master.

______________________

Hey y'all, watch this . . .

Owned and sold:

2.5" M66

6" M28

6" M28, LNIB

4" M19

Current:

4" M19 w/ Hogues and Fed +P+ (wife gun)

6" blue GP100, w/ discontinued short ejector shroud (outdoorsy / hunting back up gun)

5.5" Single Six

 

Future:

2.5" M66 for sentimental reasons

3" or 4" GP100

 

If I could only have one wheel gun, I would go w/ the GP100. Lots of well thought out features, like a small hole in the front of the frame to depress the pilot bearing I presume if the gun is locked shut, off set notches. I carry it w/ 180 gr Buffalo bore. If you want to go the .357 route, it is built to handle it. Firing .38s in the GP is a joke in terms of contollability.

 

I wanted a Bisley Vaquero, but after playing with one, changed my mind.

Where to start....I won' t waste ban width on a list, but I have a few   revolvers.  I cut my teeth with them, and used them extensively during some very busy times in my young cop life.  I also shot a lot of speed steel with them.  Revolvers are awesome.  They are magnificent when run by someone who knows what they are doing.  They separate the hero's and zero's pretty quickly.   They have a bunch of benefits that are timeless.

 

First the good:

A retard can figure out the manual of arms, even from TV.  Their status is easy to determine even visually without touching the gun.  I think we had less administrative ND's with them because of being so easy to figure out if they were loaded or not, rather than the trigger.  

 

Their ammunition source is attached to the gun.  In some cases, this is good.  everything it needs to function properly is attached and can't come apart without some serious mechanical issues (I have a story about this...).  The ammunition also does not have to function the gun.  This gives a ton of latitude in what they will run on and loadings.  If revolvers were still popular LE guns, today's buckets for them would likely be amazing.

 

Trigger conducive to working under stress.  Not necessarily due to weight, but distance of travel and how the load up.  I like them for people management As well as carrying in ways I would never carry something like a Glock.  Much of the time driving these days, I have a revolver between the seat and the console or under my leg.....never with a Glock or similar.

 

Very "sock drawer" reliable.  If you put a loaded revolver in a sock drawer that was functional when you put it there...you can almost guarantee you can grab it (or one one of the many hidden all over the house) anytime for the rest of your life and it will go bang If needed.

 

Grips and sizes can be easily fit to almost anyone, and a model can be found to fit any task from large to small that is reliable for any mission or task. 

 

I'll continue this post later.....more to follow

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by Doug Mitchell:

Truckcop, what's the sight system on that J frame? I need all the help I can get.

That is a 640 Pro.  It uses dovetailed Trijicon night sights.  The 640 Pro is popular for those dedicated revolver shooters who carry a 5 shot as a primary weapon.  Very shoot able for what it is, but they are heavy for the size.  

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Originally Posted by nyeti:
Originally Posted by Doug Mitchell:

Truckcop, what's the sight system on that J frame? I need all the help I can get.

That is a 640 Pro.  It uses dovetailed Trijicon night sights.  The 640 Pro is popular for those dedicated revolver who carry a 5 shot as a primary weapon.  Very shoot able for what it is, but they are heavy for the size.  

Yep, what he said.

______________________

Hey y'all, watch this . . .

Some additional from my initial post on this.

 

The revolver is very simple to teach.  I believe that simplicity helps during crisis deployment as well.  

 

Pat may want to weigh in on this, but I noted in general that I think that "competent" revolver shooters tended to not go into panic empty the gun mode when caught behind the curve on reaction shootings (surprise defensive shootings), versus those incidents where officers were deploying gun in hand ready for a fight (offensive).  Just an observation that may be limited to my little section of the world.  

 

I found revolvers to work well as improvised impact weapons.  While this should always be a "plan c" option, the Hebrew Hammer worked far better than any of my polymer framed guns when I needed to create some space in a physical altercation while I had a gun in hand.......and I do mean FAR better.  Equally, I also found them good for entangled deployment.  

 

Reliability was was far better from non-traditional carry modes....particularly from pockets and ankle carry.  

 

Blasty.  I like something that comes with its own flash bang that leaves the muzzle along with the bullet.  Some of my revolvers are down right frightening to be around.  Big bore magnum snubs in particular.  My shorty Ruger Sheriff's Vaquero with a black powder load in .45 Colt at 1000 fps. will literally light an opponent on fire within a couple of yards.  It was my old "door answering gun" for this reason alone.  

 

snake shot.....reason enough to have one while in certain parts of the country.  My S&W 296 is my back pocket snake shot gun in certain places.

 

More to follow as I think stuff up.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

A revolver in a serious caliber, .44 Mag, .480 Ruger, etc. can be much more compact than a comparable semi-auto.

This, along with it's ability to carry a broader variety of ammo makes it a good choice for a "woods gun".

Carried a M-29 many a mile, knowing I could face shoot big fauna with it and penetrate to the brain was comforting (my .338 Mag was much better but way to big to carry with all of the gear we had to bring along sometimes).

Backing up any firearm carried as a primary was a J-frame (usually 638 or 640).

Bad people respected the .44 Mag. and the mere presence may have helped calm some of them down.

It, the .44 Mag., with the right ammo could penetrate a motorcycle engine, ATV engine or snow mobile engine as our guys proved when some cretin's tried to run them down with snow machine's and ATV's.

Art

 

Adding some more stuff:

 

Something I came up with a couple years ago that I confirmed with Pat and some other folks with revolver time involving humans.  I picked this up with the LEM in my P30 and remembered it with my DA autos, but it really stood out with the revolvers.  You can see your trigger press.  During a crisis tactile feeling tends to go a little numb.  You can feel but things like the weight of a trigger or its feel don't register well.  What does go through the roof is visual perception.  You see with some amazing clarity and pick up a lot of minute details.  If you get your gun in front of your eye, you can actually see the hammer moving.  If it is moving smoothly it confirms you are pressing smoothly.  I find seeing that hammer moving smoothly in my peripheral vision is an indicator if I am going to fast.  

 

More to follow...

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

Iv'e been carrying my trusty Model 10's in the streets of New York for over 35 years. I have never felt at a disadvantage and the round has done its job if I did mine. The only exception was the 158gr SWC's that failed to drop a polar bear but that's another story.

I am a revolver fan... I currently have a DAO GP100 4" and a security six 4" as well. I also have a 638 wearing Eagle secret service grips which is one of my favorite pocket/BUG set ups.  I did have a Gemini Custom SP101 at one time but that was a while ago... 

"Those who beat their swords to plowshares will plow for those who do not" "Old swordsmen get to be that way... by being very good"

As is my usual move, I find myself lusting over the awesome guns in here and wondering about acquiring one of my own.


My arsenal has most every time of common firearm in use except a revolver. 

 

I want to get something full size, not carry. I want to get something with some panaché, or history behind it (thinking something cool issued to legendary cops or something, or something with lineage in our military.) Not thinking antique or real old, but at least something I can look at and feel like it's got some sort of historical weight. Sorry if that's vague.

 

I also can't dump $1200 on another "fun" gun. Thinking in the $800 range. Help me Obi-Wan Lightfighters, you're my wallet's only hope. 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

 

 

 Model 10's were issued to NYPD for how long?

 Model 64's also, later the NY-1 package.

 Victory model .38's

 3" Model 13's were issued to FBI for a long time

 M1917's Colt & S&W are pretty cool.

 4" 586/686 are cool and versatile.

 Old school PPC type revolvers are just way cool

 

 Bob

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Model 10. The classic cop .38 still being made. Or a Model 19.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 

 Model 10's were issued to NYPD for how long?

 Model 64's also, later the NY-1 package.

 Victory model .38's

 3" Model 13's were issued to FBI for a long time

 M1917's Colt & S&W are pretty cool.

 4" 586/686 are cool and versatile.

 Old school PPC type revolvers are just way cool

 

 Bob

Bob, they were never *issued*.
You had to buy the gun from the Equipment Section, so none were marked in any special way.

Unsure when they started, but one Uncle when on the Job in 1946, and I shot his M&P.
It was authorized until maybe 1990.


They did authorize the M64 when they phased out the M10

 

 

 

 Pat, for as many times as you've said that, and others on the job I know have told me, I brain farted, I should've said authorized I guess.

 

 From my research, it looks like S&W marked some Model 64's NY-1 to indicate specs set forth by NYPD, I think they had some Ruger counterparts also. But no markings done by the Dept.

 

either way, I think those are some classic police revolvers, from the PD that is probably most identified with a revolver.....at least these days.

 

 My buddy, is asking his co-workers if any of them have an NY-1 they want to sell me..

 

Bob

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 

 Pat, for as many times as you've said that, and others on the job I know have told me, I brain farted, I should've said authorized I guess.

 

 From my research, it looks like S&W marked some Model 64's NY-1 to indicate specs set forth by NYPD, I think they had some Ruger counterparts also. But no markings done by the Dept.

 

either way, I think those are some classic police revolvers, from the PD that is probably most identified with a revolver.....at least these days.

 

 My buddy, is asking his co-workers if any of them have an NY-1 they want to sell me..

 

Bob

 The 64 NY-1 were DAO. They are around. I'm going to grab one when I can or just bob the hammer on my Model 10. Female patrol officers in the 70's carried 3 inch model 60's. I don't know when they also went to the model 10 or if it was ever required.There was also some Rugers and Colt Police Positives but I have no idea when they went away.

I have never in my life had any desire to own a revolver.  Until these damn threads started.  Then my local shop gets in a shitload of retired Puerto Rican State Police revolvers.  Now I have a 2" and 4" S&W 10-7.  Loving them so far.  Definitely more challenging then any of my semi autos. 

"A pirate is not the sort of a man who generally cares to pay his bills...and after a time the work of endeavoring to collect debts from pirates was given up."

          -Frank R. Stockton

The 3" square Butt was the policewomans (there is joke there someplace) until they became Police Officers in 1973,
Originally they wore skirts and very expensive hats and carried that 3" M36 in a JP service holster.
Eventually they went to pants and the 8 point had and M10.
The job had a bunch of those 3" M36 that they sold at under $50...

Re bobbed hammer.

If you managed to break your hammer (generally by dropping it) the Gunsmith would not replace it.
They just smoothed it out and returned it to you.

The M60 NY-1 guns were problematic and they sent the whole first batch back (as I remember it...)

Originally Posted by LobsterClaw207:

As is my usual move, I find myself lusting over the awesome guns in here and wondering about acquiring one of my own.


My arsenal has most every time of common firearm in use except a revolver. 

 

I want to get something full size, not carry. I want to get something with some panaché, or history behind it (thinking something cool issued to legendary cops or something, or something with lineage in our military.) Not thinking antique or real old, but at least something I can look at and feel like it's got some sort of historical weight. Sorry if that's vague.

 

I also can't dump $1200 on another "fun" gun. Thinking in the $800 range. Help me Obi-Wan Lightfighters, you're my wallet's only hope. 

 

You really can't go wrong with a K-frame Smith.  I'm partial to the Model 19 (blue) or Model 66 (stainless) in .357.  They are out there for enough under your budget that you can find wood grips, leather, speedloaders, and a couple of boxes of ammo if you shop well.

 

Model 10s, 64s, etc are also exceptionally cool. 

 

"Speed's fine, but accuracy is final" - Bill Jordan

Originally Posted by LobsterClaw207:

As is my usual move, I find myself lusting over the awesome guns in here and wondering about acquiring one of my own.


My arsenal has most every time of common firearm in use except a revolver. 

 

I want to get something full size, not carry. I want to get something with some panaché, or history behind it (thinking something cool issued to legendary cops or something, or something with lineage in our military.) Not thinking antique or real old, but at least something I can look at and feel like it's got some sort of historical weight. Sorry if that's vague.

 

I also can't dump $1200 on another "fun" gun. Thinking in the $800 range. Help me Obi-Wan Lightfighters, you're my wallet's only hope. 

There are the "run of the mill" guns, some fictional ones, and some expensive, but still duty guns.

 

My personal opinion.

First, I prefer S&W, followed closely by Ruger.  Colt is not on my list.  The K and L frames are probably the most versatile and universal sizes.  Grips are available to fit most any hand, especially if it has a round butt.  The L-Frames are beefier than a K, but with the same grip.  They were made to handle .357 mag all day long.  A 4" Model 19 K-Frame is probably one of the nicest handling revolvers you'll ever get.  They are light enough to carry comfortably all day long, not too big, look good, etc.  They are not as strong as a Ruger and if you feed them a heavy diet of .357mag, you will eventually destroy it.  If you stick to .38 most of the time, they wll do fine.  The fixed sight K frames in .38spl were long time police staples.  They were also issued to flight crews post WWII and a number of them were parkerized and issued during WWII.

 

Probably the premier old S&W would be a WW1 vintage M1917 in .45acp.  That would be cool.

 

The large frame Smiths are the N Frames, made in .357mag, .41mag, .44mag, .45acp, and in rare variants, .44spl, .45 Colt, and 10mm.  For "fictional" guns, check out the Indiana Jones movies and look for a 1930's Triple Lock.  Or Dirty Harry and a blued Model 29 6".  Sledgehammer had a 6" stainless Model 629.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Originally Posted by Gunner:

I have never in my life had any desire to own a revolver.  Until these damn threads started.  Then my local shop gets in a shitload of retired Puerto Rican State Police revolvers.  Now I have a 2" and 4" S&W 10-7.  Loving them so far.  Definitely more challenging then any of my semi autos. 

 

No shit. That's where I'm at, never knew I needed one until checking out these threads.

 

Thanks for the responses, I've got a good idea what to look for now. 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

Originally Posted by Pat _Rogers:

The 3" square Butt was the policewomans (there is joke there someplace) until they became Police Officers in 1973,
Originally they wore skirts and very expensive hats and carried that 3" M36 in a JP service holster.
Eventually they went to pants and the 8 point had and M10.
The job had a bunch of those 3" M36 that they sold at under $50...

 

 They may have been the chic gun, but my 3" M36 is neat little gun.

 I paid a $100 for mine a few years ago, in less then stellar condition.

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Had to throw in my two cents on this one.  I'm not a revolver guy, but I think everyone should have a few.  I currently own 3: a 4" smith 66 no dash, a 4" model 15-3 I just picked up last week for $375, and a ruger LCR.  I shoot revolvers well, and really like the things.  I am teaching some guys at my PD how to shoot the PPC course for an upcoming firarms instructor school.  The first 2 phases are the "marksmanship phase" and you have to shoot the PPC course before going on to the combat pistol phases (3 more weeks).  You can shoot a revolver or semi in the marksmanship phase, and most choose the wheel gun.  When I went through the school the wheel un was a requirement.  While somewhat outdated, I look at having to spend 2 weeks shooting a revolver as some of the best training I ever got.  I believe it made me a much better auto pistol shooter.  

 

I like shooting and carrying the revolver in certain situations.  With with light wadcutter .38s, it's like shooting a heavy .22 pistol.  Relatively quiet and very little recoil.  Plus, if I'm going out hunting or some such activity, I like to be able to load up the 66 with heavy .357 loads and feel confident I can poke holes in whatever I might run into locally.  My wife's "house gun" is one of the Smiths loaded with modern hollow points. She finds it much easier to load and shoot than any of my other handguns.  

 

When I was teaching the younsters to shoot, they started with .22s, worked their way up to the revolver, and now my son shoots a G19 very competently.  He still has a soft spot for the 66.  

 

I use a simple Fobus holster for shooting the PPC course on the range along with safariland comp 2 speed loaders.  Both are basic, but work.  I've always fought with grips, and have yet to find the grail on that.  I think that's a never ending battle.  

 

Basically, revolers are cool, still useful, and I wish I had money to buy more and shoot more.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Originally Posted by LobsterClaw207:
Originally Posted by Gunner:

I have never in my life had any desire to own a revolver.  Until these damn threads started.  Then my local shop gets in a shitload of retired Puerto Rican State Police revolvers.  Now I have a 2" and 4" S&W 10-7.  Loving them so far.  Definitely more challenging then any of my semi autos. 

 

No shit. That's where I'm at, never knew I needed one until checking out these threads.

 

Thanks for the responses, I've got a good idea what to look for now. 

A good used, not collector grade K38 (M14 in its variants) should run well inside your budget. It's the 6" target version of the classic K frame. Hard to go wrong. Load it with .38 wadcutters from Black Hills and you will have too much fun and some good practice. Hand load some .38-44 equivalent 160-170 grain SWCs and you can do a lot with it. A late model K frame will handle that load ok - probably better than your hands will. It's considerably more stout than any +P load, especially modern ones. If you really want to be able to load .357s in it for some reason, the 6" M19/M66 should shoot just as well, but they are harder to find at a decent price. 

 

Another great choice is a later model 25 (more precisely, a 25-2). It's a 6" N frame target revolver in 45ACP. Works best with moon clips. You can also load up some stout stuff in 45AR cases with heavy SWCs and it will do for anything short of Moose. You do have to watch for the chamber mouth dimensions, but there are a ton of strings on the S&W forum about the issues. Earlier ones, up to the end of the pinned barrel era (82-ish) tend to have oversize chamber mouths and many shoot like shit. Likewise the ones in 45 Colt. Should be .452; some are big as .457 or .458.

 

M28s (Highway Patrolman) are getting up there, damned near to M27 prices sometimes, since it is basically the same gun with a plain finish and less handwork. I doubt you want a Triple Lock (.44 Hand Ejector First Model) as they are collector's items in good shape, and not near as hardy as later model N frames due to the lack of heat treating.

 

If you come to a decision, I belong to the S&W forum and try to keep current, so I can look for shit and send you info. There is a guy selling his customized L frame (almost like an M65 on steroids) that is pretty neat looking.

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

www.routledge.com/9781138302969 (NOTE: Live Link)

I always have had a couple revolvers around. I like shooting them and since I reload .38spcl it's not that bad on my wallet to shoot a bunch. These are my two most recent purchases. I have a model 64 incoming. 

 

S&W model 28-2 4" Highway Patrolman in .357. Shooting.38's in it is very pleasurable and .357 magnums is not bad at all. I shoot way more.38's through it though. It was purchased through gunbroker recently under $500. I changed out the S&W grips for a set of VZ grips in blacK. These are the ones with the grippy diamonds.

 

The next one is a S&W 544 in 44-40. It is the Texas Sesquicentennial model. I've got the matching box, but the other stuff that it came with is missing. It has not been fired, but I did dry fire it a time or two and it has a very nice trigger. It may be on the chopping block as I need a new scope for a bolt gun. 

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LPD "People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives." - Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 

 

 M1917's Colt & S&W are pretty cool.

 

 

 Bob

 

These are what I would pursue.

 

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“The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute – get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.”

- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Joined: 4/22/09          Location: WI

Originally Posted by Pat _Rogers:

I have a 1917 Smith.

And a 1909 Colt New Service, .45 Colt.



 

Got any pics? 

 

We need a "drooling" emoticon to go with pics of cool guns!

 

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“The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute – get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.”

- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Joined: 4/22/09          Location: WI

Not Pat, but here is my 1909 Canadian Northwest Mounted Police Colt that is in .45 Colt (Canadians rechambered them from .455 Eley).  Shown with its holster.  If this one could talk.......

 

 

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"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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Just throwing this here. I don't know anything about prices or value and I am not interested.

 

SMITH AND WESSON MODEL 21-4 THUNDER RANCH EDITION 44 SPECIAL. I HAVE NEVER FIRED THIS GUN AND I DONT THINK IT HAS BEEN FIRED SINCE IT LEFT THE FACTORY. INCLUDES CASE AND PAPER WORK. 800.00 IN TEXARKANA, TX. PHONE OR TEXT 903-277-3703

Originally Posted by Pat _Rogers:

Sweet DB!!

That gun has the hardest trigger I have ever pressed...

Yea, everything about it is oversized.....including rolling that huge cylinder.  But......I bet you could give an oversized pistol whipping with it.  I'm sure many a tough drunk in the Northwest Territories got a head split by a Mountie with one of these shootable clubs.  Notice mine is missing the bottom corner of the grip.

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

I've got one of the 2 inch model 64 NYPD model.  It's stamped NY-1 or NY-4, It's conus I'm not.  I like my old detective special better for carry but the 64 for shooting.   

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I'm either dead right, or horribly wrong. Either way the results should be entertaining.

 

"Shoot the MOTHERF$%^ER until he changes shape or catches fire"  the PAT ROGERS

I've been wanting a revolver for quite some time.  These threads are not helping.  I think the fact that I'm out of the country is the only thing keeping me from owning one at this point.  I almost bought a Ruger Redhawk back in 2005 and regret not buying it.  I think it would have been a fun addition to the collection.  My dad suggested getting a S&W M66 or M19.  He carried those for many years as a policemen. 

A Soldier without bullets is just a tourist!

Originally Posted by ghostofwar:

Finally found a picture of the 586 I wish I had never sold. 

 

I still have mine.

 

 

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Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

 

 Keep rubbing it in Dorsai...at least mine were stolen.

 

 Heres a M36-1 3" w/ Square butt. I just got these Herretts Shooting Star grips. I'll have to see how they feel/shoot on the range

 

 

IMG_20150214_113906_427

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

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 Just to get on track with my original intent of getting some info sharing going and not just posting pic's.

 

 The above M36-1 is a J frame with a square butt. As Pat says, its what they gave the female officers way back when, and it might be one of the best uses for the gun. As a 5 shot 38, with a longer then 2" barrel and larger then concealment grips, is a contradictions of sorts.

 You almost might as well go to the K frame. But, it is small enough for small handed people to shoot well.

 I had Pach's on it earlier, and like them pretty well, & may go back to them.

 These Herrett's are New old stock, from the day when they made generic/mass produced sized grips in addition to the custom sized one they do today.

 I like them because they have no finger groove or palm swells, which seem to be in the wrong place for me usually. They wont grab clothing if I ever do decide to casually conceal it...I doubt that. The checkering is sharp, to keep it in place. Shooting will see.

 

 Unfortunately this gun shoots about 3-4" low right at 25yds with everything I've tried in it. Right now it is loaded with some Buffalo Bore low recoil low flash std pressure 125JHP's They are probably no better then the 148WC or what not, but I have them, so they are in there. With a speed strip next to it.

 

Once a few things get squared away, and I feel like it. I'll probably send it off to one of the smiths that's been recommended, and see if the POA/I can be corrected. Have the action/trigger tuned up a bit, bevel the cylinder and charge holes, remove the hammer spur(maybe), and bead blast/matte blue it.

 Eventually do the 3" K frames the same way.

 

 Thought? Ideas" Comments?

 

Bob

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

That sounds like a good plan to me Bob. I don't have any 3 inch Js but I have 2 of the 3 inch Ks. Fortunately both are right on with the 148gr WC and the 158gr LSWHP. with regard to the sights were you thinking of having some of the front post shaved down or were you considering the installation of a pinned blade? A set of the Novak front and rear like Ruger is putting on the 3 inch GP100 would be the cats ass. I think that having the cylinder holes beveled a bit is a worthwhile mod. I had it done on an old 649 and it makes a big difference in reloading WC with a speed loader. My 65 is ugly as sin and I've been considering having it bead blasted. NP3 might look cool on that 36. That exhausts my revolver thoughts for the day. 

Location: Southeastern PA

 

"Serenity now, insanity later..." Lloyd Braun

I LOVE Smith and Wesson revolvers. A 4in model 66 was the first gun I ever bought.  Although we were long into the Glock by the time I got "on the job", I shot 10 years worth of PPC  Since that first Smith Ive purchased quite a few. I tend to only buy guns Im interested in and not just for the heck of it. Hence Ive only resold 3 guns in my life. 2 I wish I still had. The model 657 4 inch .41 magnum is my hunting backup gun.

 

My grail gun is a 3in K frame. either a 66 or 19

 

My list by model #

686 - 4 and a 6 inch

586 - 4 and a 6 inch

66 - was a 4 inch, its been rebuilt into a PPC pistol. With A 6inch Douglas HEAVY barrel and Aristrocrat sight.

586 - 6 inch in 38 special only (built for Brazil)

14 - 4 and 6 inch heavy under lug barrels, built for PPC distinguished and service pistol competition

19 - 4 inch

66 - 2.5 inch

657 - 4inch

57 - 6inch

640

442

 

Yes, I have a problem

I don't see you as having a problem.

 

3" 66s are findable, and not cheap. Plan on over $1K under any circumstances of which I can think. 3" 19s are findable, in a not quite unicorn way, and I doubt you will find one for much under $3k, and more likely it will be over.

- - - -
Never be biased. Get to know people, and then hate them for objective reasons. They will almost always give you plenty.

www.routledge.com/9781138302969 (NOTE: Live Link)

Tank308, you aren't even close to having a problem.  You do have a nice starter set.

 

This is one of 4 very cool revolvers that came to my house today...

 

 

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"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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These threads on revolvers suck - I'm down to only my S&W 37-2. Had to sell my pristine S&W 14-3 while I was out of work for about 1/2 what it was worth to get a new lawnmower.

 

Revolvers on my dream list are a S&W 18 for plinking and one of those S&W 10s with the lanyard loop that were issued to the Hong Kong police. Grail revolver would be a S&W 1917 WW2 issue.

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I've been falling so long it's like gravity's gone & I'm just floating...

Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 DB,

 Lets see that Robar M10

This thing is spectacularly and wickedly awesome.  This started out as a Puerto Rican police trade in.  Looked like it was shot very little, but something ugly happened to it (I would bet that a soda was spilled on it).  It shoots great and is the kind of gun I recommend for a majority of America based on most folks gun handling skills.  I loved the balance on the thing.  I made the mistake of "trying" a set of Nill grips on it! and they have not come off as they make it like shaking hands with an old friend when you grasp them.  I fell in love with it at that point, so off it went to the Spa run by our own Freddie Blish.  It got the full Np3 treatment, hammer bobbed, and a groove was cut in the front sight.  It was intended to be gold, but that was not a good match with the NP3, so a narrow trough was cut down the center of the front sight that I can fill with any color paint, melted crayon, or finger nail polish I want for whatever color I want.  It is a fluorescent red right now.  the NP3 made the good action a near perfect action. I forsee this gun being the one strapped to my walker at the old folks home some day....it is that good.

 

 

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"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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 DB,

 Very nice,

 That brings the number to 4, of possible smiths to send my Smiths to. I just happen to have 4 S&W revolvers at this time.....hmmm..

 

Did Robar do any action work? Is that in their forte? The latest M13 3" action sticks a bit on at least one cylinder, the cylinder itself seems a bit loose front to back, and it's a bit rough in the finish dept.

 I was thinking one of their black finishes on the frame, cylinder and barrel, with the internals getting the NP3.

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Nyeti.....

You're a bastard. .

I mean that in the nicest way.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by MrMurphy:
Nyeti.....

You're a bastard. .

I mean that in the nicest way.

No, this is a bastard.....Smith and Wesson 25-5 with what everyone (including some heavyweight experts) who has seen it looks like a factory installed 6.5" 1950 Target barrel. This combined with a 1950 .44 spl. Target 5 screw with an expertly installed later model 24 barrel and then refinished with blue over bead blast.  We cannot forget floral leather....the sign of a classy gentleman gunfighter of yesteryear.  

 

image

"If I had a Grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton"

Let those who love the LORD hate evil. The one who guards the lives of his godly ones will rescue them from the power of wicked people. Psalms 97:10 Trooper Troy Duncan-EOW 5-19-84 Deputy Erik Jon Telen-EOW 8-21-2001

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