I’m reaching out to the brain trust of current and retired LEO members, to get a sense of the successful justifications they have seen across their careers for citizens seeking a CCW license in the subject states.

I have no idea where or when my current profession will end, or if I’ll find myself residing in DC/Maryland before calling it quits.

Original Post

When I was stationed in DC, I lived in Oldtown Alexandria right across the river in VA, loved it there and would willingly go back, even with the current Virginia gun rights shenanigans.... I'm from Annapolis MD.... The few people I knew from there that had carry permits were all small business owners and primarily dealt with either easily stealable  items/ products or regularly had large amounts of cash to deposit. I'm sure in other parts of the state there are more varied reasons approved but those were the only ones I knew of then in Anne Arundel County.... Mom still lives in MD, but moved out to the Hagerstown area, really is a different state out there.... But once I retire from the USMC in 18 ish months, well, I ain't going back to Maryland.... might just stay here in Jacksonville NC unless something else pops up.... Still don't really know what I want to do once I'm not playing rifleman anymore....

I’ve always seen the small business owner angle, even in NJ.  I don’t see that in my future.

I do expect a high probability though, of running across one or more folks I have had a brief three-minute interaction with, which resulted in a very adverse situation for them and their family.

As a case in point, a visa applicant I interviewed and issued  to In Dubai, subsequently approached me in the baggage claim area in Cairo several months later, just to say thank you. His situation ended favorably but there are thousands more who did not fare as well, but may have still entered the U.S. via a subsequent application.

In N.J., we have justifiable need for a CCW. It is nearly impossible to get.

That being said, if you’re a business owner (this applies only to the owner, you can not grant employees this ability - gun  stores are the exception) NJ considers your business location the same as your home and you can carry there.

However, when transporting the firearm between work and home, normal NJ transport regulations (off body, unloaded, and secured) apply.

In NJ, if you are transporting valuables and are high risk for being a victim of a robbery, the will courts generally tell you to hire armed security before granting you a CCW permit. 

A few friends in a non-permissive state looked into businesses that handle cash as a ork around.    They looked at laundries and car washes but the buy in was high.   They threw in and started a small ATM business.   Buy the machine, put it in a business and make money on fees.    You split the fees with the business owner.   

the machines have to be restocked with cash.    Even though they had a 3rd party fill the machines it was a good enough reason to get ccw permits.  

Not LEO but the "citizen" you refer too. Location, potentially down to the county or even city make this variable. So I will just relay my specific case.

Placer County CA. No specific city ordnances. Cites like LA, San Fran, Napa et al are no issue regardless of the "law" or Good Cause. There is an interview process in Placer where you have to interview with a deputy and discuss your situation and answer a few questions. Justification, business owner carrying cash deposits.  Mildly amusing derail based on that interview. "Prior Navy?",  "Yes." "US Navy?" ... "uhh... yes, is there another kind?", "Just checking, my last interview was Russian Navy."  "oh ...". As mentioned in another thread, I frequently get confused as being Russian... even by Russians. Haven't quite puzzled out why yet.

Conversational style interview.  "does you wife know and agree with you carrying?", a few questions about my temperament during arguments, confrontations. Background, current career etc. ~30'ish minutes.

CA per county, Good Causes are,

Known, documented threats or jobs which can result in known threats is pretty solid in the more reasonable CA counties.

Sac county got sued and made it "more likely" based on a reasonable Good Cause. RUMINT, some counties appear to allow the general "self defense" as a Good Cause.

IMHO (as a CCW holder) Depending on your documented specific career and specifically in Placer County, I could see "previous career creates a significant potential for a dangerous threat" being a valid Good Cause.

https://friedmanhandguntraining(dot)com/CCW_map_CA.html

 

In CA, the state requires "Good Cause" which varies greatly by City or County. Solely the call of the Police Chief or Sheriff. If you live in a city with it's own PD and are denied, you can still apply with the Sheriff Dept. In my county the current Sheriff is very liberal on "Good Cause". The prior one was more strict. The easiest method to establish "Good Cause" with the prior sheriff was to get a C&R FFL and State Certificate of Eligibility. In the statement of good cause, list that in the course of your federally licensed hobby, you frequently transport firearms and cash.

I'm not LE but this may still be helpful.

Last edited by Community Member

+1 on widely varying practices and policies throughout California.  I live in a county that borders Viking_Overlord's, and it is very similar/same here.  Simply stating 'self defense' has been reason enough for our Sheriff.  Our's is a very pro-2A county and SO, and this has not waned.  I can't speak to the east coast, though.  The general rule of thumb is that the county Sheriff is the issuing authority but some cities will flex their own authority in this regard.  Needless to say, that factor should figure into your retirement arithmetic.

I get a duty assignment to a non permissive state, just curious, but, as to the "when and where" issue with ending the career, I would think that if you retire, quit, or otherwise seperate, the where you land is pretty much up to you. I guess I would look at it as how important CCH is on the scale of other factors, such as family needs/career opportunities. 

I can provide no insight as to your question as I'm in a shall issue state, and do not foresee ever living in one other than.

Jon-

A quick review of the CCW process in Maryland shows that previous employment or status is not a compelling reason in Maryland. They have two cases cited on the MDSP.maryland.gov website (Schnerr vs. Handgun Permit Review Board, and Snowden vs).

In Schnerr vs. Handgun Permit Review Board, Schnerr stated he was a former prosecutor and was worried about anyone he had previous interaction with. They denied it due to immediacy - he was no longer a prosecutor and could not cite any current threats against him. Snowden was a social worker in Baltimore and they denied him.

Start a small business. Carry cash. 

@Community Member posted:

I get a duty assignment to a non permissive state, just curious, but, as to the "when and where" issue with ending the career, I would think that if you retire, quit, or otherwise seperate, the where you land is pretty much up to you. I guess I would look at it as how important CCH is on the scale of other factors, such as family needs/career opportunities. 

I can provide no insight as to your question as I'm in a shall issue state, and do not foresee ever living in one other than.

I chuckle, because I’m assuming you must not be married to a Filipina,

When retired, I can't think of anything good in MD or DC that you can't get in VA. As bad as VA is at present, nowhere near as bad a DC or MD. Crab cakes-check, scrapple-check, Natty Boh- check (made in NC).

@Community Member posted:

Not LEO but the "citizen" you refer too. Location, potentially down to the county or even city make this variable. So I will just relay my specific case.

Placer County CA. No specific city ordnances.

I grew up in and lived in this county on and off for years.

The previous sheriff, Bonner, was notorious for judging your "good moral character" by your traffic record. Two or more anything in the last seven years, don't even bother.

I started the application process when I got out of the Army and moved home. In addition to being a firefighter, I also had a side gig as a process server, which met the bar for good cause. When I called to schedule the interview, the gal there kind of pre-screened me over the phone about criminal record, have I taken the training, etc. I disclosed I had gotten a 62-in-a-60 speeding ticket in WA a year prior and a seatbelt ticket three or so years prior to that. She told me not to waste my money, as the sheriff would deny my CCW based on those. It seems his stance was that if you couldn't follow traffic laws, why should he trust you with carrying a gun? 

So even in the "good" counties, how much respect the Constitution is given in CA is still at the complete whim of one person.

I've heard the new sheriff, Bell, is a little more laid back and CCW friendly, but I bailed on CA and don't plan on ever going back.

HA! 

Not to a Filipina, but a hard headed Italian. Put the kibosh on more than a few post retirement dream jobs for me because they required a move. Hence my scale qualifier  

@Community Member posted:

In CA, the state requires "Good Cause" which varies greatly by City or County. Solely the call of the Police Chief or Sheriff. If you live in a city with it's own PD and are denied, you can still apply with the Sheriff Dept.

I've heard that in MD (where I grew up but haven't lived in over 20 years) that an additional risk in applying is that if you are denied for lacking "good cause," you will have to report the denial on future CCW applications (like if you move to another county). Is that a question that comes up on CA or other state applications?

My brother had a friend at U of MD whose family owned a grocery store in Baltimore City. He, his father, and brother had no problem getting permits because they took turns closing up the store in the evening and transporting the cash to the bank. He also said that if the family, who were Korean and well-trained in certain arts, ever noticed anyone shoplifting, they would quietly lock the front door and deal with the problem themselves.

@Community Member posted:

I've heard that in MD (where I grew up but haven't lived in over 20 years) that an additional risk in applying is that if you are denied for lacking "good cause," you will have to report the denial on future CCW applications (like if you move to another county). Is that a question that comes up on CA or other state applications?

 

Yes, in CA, it is on the CA BOF 4012 standard application. Also, if denied what reason.

Edit to add: I've never heard of of a CA friendly Sheriff denying a CCW based on being denied by an Anti 2A agency. I haven't checked recently. But in my county, if you live in a city that handles their own CCW, you must first be denied by the city before you could apply with the county.

 

Last edited by Community Member
@Community Member posted:

 So nice to live in a SHALL ISSUE state. No interviews, no telling why, no questions at all. Submit your prints and sign here.

 

You forgot about the writing a check part.  

I always thought the "compelling reason" was knowing a guy...and usually writing a check.

It may be a free country but you've got to pay to enjoy it.

 

This link contains a list of approved 'good cause' statements for California.

https://sandiegocountygunowners [dot] com/ccw/

Specifically, two of interest for forum members:

"I hold a Top Secret security clearance which allows access to information which, if lost, would cause extraordinarily grave harm to our nation’s security. While I am not at liberty to disclose my specific assignment, I can state that my employer is a provider of military aircraft and other systems. These systems and technologies are used for a wide range of missions important to our country’s defense. As an engineer, I am knowledgeable about the entire system for which I am responsible. Thus I am in possession of information about that system’s capabilities and vulnerabilities, which if lost, would be extremely damaging to our nation’s security. My own personal information and that of all of my family members was lost in data breaches at the Office of Personnel Management and Anthem health insurance in 2015 and several other breaches since then. According to media reports, foreign intelligence services are actively exploiting the information lost in those breaches, making me and my family vulnerable to those foreign intelligence services. At work I am protected by strong physical security such as secure spaces and guards. Some of my work locations are protected by armed guards. But I have no protection when away from work. I am requesting a CCW for personal protection when I am off duty and away from the security provided by my employer."

"I have 37 years of Aerospace experience. For 25 years I held a Secret DOD Clearance. Information which I still have knowledge of could cause harm to national security. I am not at liberty to disclose any specific information or assignments. My own personal background information pertaining to my Clearance’s and that of all my family members was compromised in data breaches at the Office of Personnel Management. This is also the case with recent well documented credit reporting agency breaches i.e.  Equifax, Experian & TransUnion. According to media reports, foreign intelligence services are actively exploiting the information lost in those breaches, making me and my family vulnerable to those intelligence services. Specific threats are Terrorists or any number of individuals that have protested General Atomics facilities in Poway and or La Jolla, California. While at work I am protected by physical security such as fences and armed guards, but I have no protection when away from work. I am requesting a CCW for personal protection when I am off work and away from the protection provided by my employer. Reasons for threat can be to steal my company badge which allows access to General Atomics properties and Facilities. I am a Peer Inspector and have access to Digital media pertaining to the building of several types of UAVs in various stages of manufacture as well as information regarding prior classified programs I had access to."

...yes, those were approved, in California.

 

Rob K, 

I am surprised that the second one carried much weight, but that is likely because most civilians don't know the difference between Secret and Top Secret.  Any monkey who pays his bills affiliated with DoD can get a Secret clearance.  TS is another level altogether.

A Secret clearance is like a .45LC round.  Certainly way more capable than a .45 blackpowder round (Unclassified) and even .45 Schofield (FOUO), but not all that wild.  Every commissioned officer in the armed forces is required to have a Secret clearance, as do lots of civilian government employees and contractors.  The most common reason folks get denied a Secret clearance is poor financial history.  Many intel bits classified as Secret show up in public media several days/weeks after their initial reporting in classified intel channels.  Or the data itself isn't so special, but the fact that we know it is Secret.

A TS is .454 Casull, fairly uncommon and a very powerful handgun round.  Disclosure can cause grave damage to national security.  Think of what Snowden did.  Special Access Programs are the .460 S&W of clearance access.

I've recently noted many new LFers without as much reference for .mil perspective, so this was written for their perspective.  OK, sorry for the diversion.

Tankersteve

Keep in mind, CA Good Cause varies greatly from county to county. Some counties will accept the two word "self defense". Others like mine (Riverside) want you put a little more effort into the statement. Something along the lines of your concern for rising crime, frequenting remote areas etc. Other counties almost nothing works.

@Community Member posted:

Even better...living in a Constitutional Carry state. 

Yes, yes it really is. 

I went from what was essentially was a no issue county in SoCal, to AZ. It’s wonderful. 

If possible I would recommend just living where it’s shall issue or constitutional carry(what everywhere should be). 

 

I got an AZ CWP when I moved back in 2005, simple course and course of fire.  Annual reminder to renewal, via mail. Simplifies buying a new firearm as no check is required. 

Constitional carry was passed later, but kept the CWP as  it made it easier to buy and "maybe" makes a post shooting situation better (maybe not). 

Got a LEOSA card when the law was amended to recognize military service. Kept the CWP active.  This year got no notice to renew and the CWP lapsed, don't know of DPS doesn't send renewals to CWP who have LEOSA, or I missed it. 

Bought a cool 1956 Browning A-5 shotgun about a month ago, had to sit through the check as the LEOSA is not recognized to waive it, at least not where I bought the gun. 

America, at least in AZ, you have options 

Last edited by Community Member

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