FGM762M2

Any feed back on this round?

Looking for a replacement for the ADI 168gn SMK I use now that I'm pushing the range out- while trying to avoid reloading.

Federal's website suggest there is no ballistic difference to their FGM308M2.

Someone else suggested it's surplus contract M118LR.

Original Post
KUTF posted:

For pure accuracy, hard to go wrong with FGMM/SMK loading.... as long as terminal ballistics aren't a concern.  

Just putting holes in plastic on a class range.

Besides, the stuff is cheap as far as things go here: 6 cents around more than the ADI168SMK.

KUTF posted:

Buy a box and see how your gun likes it.  I doubt you'll be disappointed with its accuracy. 

 

Same here.

There is but a pallet of it...after that no more.

So me & Mr Visa might purchase a k of it & try for another bite later if it does OK.

The Hornady 155gn steel cased match is also about cheap...might buy a box to see how that prints.

OK, I bought a lot of it & it turned up last weekend:

 

At 300m it out shot the ADI 168gn SMK rounds I've been using.

Sealed annulus, '14' headstamp & unpolished case.

What was interesting was that many of the rounds have patches of tarnish on them.  cartons & boxes look free of damage, humidity etc.

This normal for 7.62 FGM?

In any case, it shoots better than existing round & I now have a few years worth.

I have shot a whole bunch of the 168 and some of the 175 FGMM. Through every gun I used over the years, (my own and several county issued rifles) it became apparent to me why it is considered the best commonly available precision rifle round.  I don't think I have ever heard a bad word about it, other than when an LE sniper used it in an LE sniper application, and was disappointed  in the results. 

I have never seen anything less than relatively shiny rounds when new, or even packed away for a few years. I have also never really had any problems reloading it, as others claim the primer holes are "soft".

Bill, Idaho posted:

I have never seen anything less than relatively shiny rounds when new, or even packed away for a few years. I have also never really had any problems reloading it, as others claim the primer holes are "soft".

Mil contract 7.62x51mm  rounds are unpolished?

We might be mixing apples and oranges here. I have never seen mil-contract 7.62x51 sold as FGMM.  There is a different finish on commercial brass as opposed to mil stuff, I am uncertain if in this case the two have crossed paths.

My LT OBR and Surgeon Scalpel love this ammo.  It is extremely consistent  case to case.  I suppose I could, through trial and error, reload something even more accurate but those days are probably done.  I remember when 168s were the standard.  These are better.

Federal Gold Medal Match 2 (175-grain Match King) is the commercial equivalent of USSOCOM 7.62mm Long Range Mark 316 Mod 0, used in the Mark 11 (SR-25) family as well as legacy 7.62mm bolt guns.

What are the differences?

Federal stamps the military headcase with "FC" and year of manufacture.  Cases are not polished.  Military packaging (plastic ten-round holders in plain brown box).

Image result for box MK 316 Mod 0 ammunition

They are made with the same components on the same machines and lines.  The charge is 41.7 grains of IMR 4064.

If I didn't load my own I'd buy it (or Black Hills, ADI, or IMI).

Why does SOCOM buy this specifically when they can also get M118 Long Range?

Lake City's M118 Long Range production began to suffer the same problems they had making M852 Match.  As M852 tooling started wearing out and the ammo no longer held match standard the Army re-labeled certain lots as "M118 Special Ball."  Special Ball meant it no longer held Army-specified Match precision.  Since "Long Range" isn't the "Match" standard they could get away with producing "Lake Shitty." Special Ball for Special Olympics?

Image result for box MK 316 Mod 0 ammunition

US Army Special Operations Command, using Mark 11 self-loaders, already take a slight precision hit with 20- and 16-inch barrels but could not get the Army to tighten up production, so they spec their own ammo.  Voila, Mark 318 is born to the old Army Match standard.

M118 Long Range is produced by the Army at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. Mark 316 is made in Minnesota by Federal.  Mark 316 quality-assurance is verified by government inspectors.  SOCOM dollars buy SOCOM ammo for SOCOM, not the rest of the big, plodding Army.

The 175 was introduced in 1999 so that 22-inch Navy Rifle Team M14 barrels could keep the bullet supersonic at 1,000 yards for the Palma and Leech Cup Matches at Camp Perry.  New Sierra 180-grain Match Kings have a re-designed ogive and boat-tail and could no longer get there consistently and precisely. 

The Marines used a "G4" load of "A double ass-load" of 4064 or 4895 behind a 168 Match King.  The round would fire, but the gas system was so over-loaded that you had to pull back on the op rod like a bolt gun, and the brass was wrecked with one firing.

The 175 needs 2550 fps at the muzzle to stay stable to 1,000.  The USAMU has gone to the Berger 180 Juggernaut in a 20-inch AR-10.

Once I fire the round I'll anneal, re-size, dry-tumble, then wet-tumble 'til they come out like gold.  The cases may have been rejected as service ammo for water spots or tarnishing.  

Last edited by Community Member
Sinister posted:
Linz posted:

Cool.

Should do the 1000m out of a 26' barrel quite nicely then.

Thanks to every one!

Oh, yeah, a 26-incher should shine!

 

Wetware notwithstanding.

I was mainly using the GM762M2 years ago and never had an accuracy issue.  Most of the dope and experiences you will see in credible places speaks highly of its accuracy.

However I did switch to the  GM308M (168 BTHP) based on a Lightfighter's recommendation. it has the same muzzle velocity and the accuracy is pretty extraordinary at the distances I shoot (=457 meters). 

I believe there are some older threads with B. Moran and others that went though this. It was also on Doc's .308 duty rounds list, which I can't find. 

YamMV. 

Dux posted:

I was mainly using the GM762M2 years ago and never had an accuracy issue.  Most of the dope and experiences you will see in credible places speaks highly of its accuracy.

However I did switch to the  GM308M (168 BTHP) based on a Lightfighter's recommendation. it has the same muzzle velocity and the accuracy is pretty extraordinary at the distances I shoot (=457 meters). 

I believe there are some older threads with B. Moran and others that went though this. It was also on Doc's .308 duty rounds list, which I can't find. 

YamMV. 

Thanks.

I was using ADI 168gn SMK but found issues at 900m+

The rounds perform ...the case tarnishing on 5 year old rounds had me wondering if this was normal for the round or a sign of storage issues.

168s (even out of a 26-inch barrel) are going to have issues around 875 yards where they go trans-sonic.

At our National Matches at Camp Perry my brother was doing great with a 1-10 twist Remington 700 until he got to the 900-yard line -- then the wheels fell of until we got him some 175s.

I’ve shot the 168 GMM for years in a LEO role until the world changed and Hornady TAP became all the rage.  As far as precision, nothing factory touches FGMM.  We’ve had factory rounds straight from Federal that had tarnished brass, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

BH 180 Gr. Nosler AccuBond shot horrendous in our guns, which at the time were a mix of AIAE's and Rem700's.  We (LEO agency) currently shoot custom Rem700 actions with Bertlein barrels and have found that the 155 Gr. Hornady TAP rounds meet our expectations in accuracy and barrier performance.  We tested it against some true bonded rounds, but with happy with its performance enough and it's nice to not have two different rounds.

Sinister posted:

168s (even out of a 26-inch barrel) are going to have issues around 875 yards where they go trans-sonic.

At our National Matches at Camp Perry my brother was doing great with a 1-10 twist Remington 700 until he got to the 900-yard line -- then the wheels fell of until we got him some 175s.

 

For whatever reason I was having trouble with the shorter distances. I'm sure it was me, but when I switched to the 168's things straightened themselves out and I clutched  those rounds like a horny Asian hooker riding rodeo.

If I went out +457 meters, I doubt the 168's would be my choice. 

Long ago I shot a lot of GM308M (168s), and was perfectly good to as much as 600 yds. I did have a precision-manufacturing-oriented friend for a while there who "helped me" reload that brass, and it was mostly cheaper, but really only a little better in accuracy. 

Went to 175s largely because I came into a large lot of 2009 (so: good QA!) LC M118LR. It shot exactly as well, but let me reach out even further. So I stuck to that when I used up the last* and did an ammo test. Did... I forget, but 4-5 brands and the GM308M2 was the best of them all. 

Black Hills would shoot tighter... 95% of the time. There was always a flier that blew the group. Etc for others. The Fed stuff is great. 1/2 moa if I remotely do my part, out to any range I can manage to hit at (I have done reliable 900 with it, working on further now). I'd feel sadder about being lazy etc for reloading, if it wasn't such very very good ammo. 

 

* actually, I think I have one box if someone wants it for the archives, to test, etc.

Linz posted:

FGM762M2

Any feed back on this round?

Looking for a replacement for the ADI 168gn SMK I use now that I'm pushing the range out- while trying to avoid reloading.

Federal's website suggest there is no ballistic difference to their FGM308M2.

Someone else suggested it's surplus contract M118LR.

...it's absolute shiite...you all should give it to me for proper disposal..

Kiko posted:
Linz posted:

FGM762M2

Any feed back on this round?

Looking for a replacement for the ADI 168gn SMK I use now that I'm pushing the range out- while trying to avoid reloading.

Federal's website suggest there is no ballistic difference to their FGM308M2.

Someone else suggested it's surplus contract M118LR.

...it's absolute shiite...you all should give it to me for proper disposal..

I do appreciate the good advice I get here...

Linz posted:
Kiko posted:
Linz posted:

FGM762M2

Any feed back on this round?

Looking for a replacement for the ADI 168gn SMK I use now that I'm pushing the range out- while trying to avoid reloading.

Federal's website suggest there is no ballistic difference to their FGM308M2.

Someone else suggested it's surplus contract M118LR.

...it's absolute shiite...you all should give it to me for proper disposal..

I do appreciate the good advice I get here...

 ..pretty much the same or similar experience..168gr was of choice till around second half of the first decade of 2000...168gr still awesome till around 600-800 ish then 175 gr rules..for a variety of reasons my M1A platforms doesn't really like the heavier grains but I rarely shoot those...honestly don't really shoot .308 for my bolt guns anymore..just my semis....with the good choices like 6.5mm, .300 and various flavors of .338.  I think .308 is still great for DMR apps but it has been eclipsed by 6.5 Creedmoor which cost the same more or less to shoot...minus the barrel wear of course.

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