Ok all, forgive my ignorance here.

I've been looking at rigger's belts.

Some of the ones I've seen appear to have some sort of triangle doo-hickey secured with velcro, like this:



What purpose does this serve? Others just have a large triangle shaped piece of metal that's part of the "buckle" like with the Wilderness belts.

So what's the difference and why?

Thanks
Original Post
That's the attachement point for a beener or descender. You can use a rigger belt to emergency rappel if necessary or as an anchor point for a layard for static work. Although, every manufacturer will recommend using it only as a backup for a full rappel harness.

"A man is good when his will takes joy in what is good, evil when his will takes joy in what is evil. He is virtuous when he finds happiness in a virtuous life, sinful when he takes pleasure in a sinful life. Hence the things that we love tell us what we are." - St. Thomas Aquinas

- John 15:13

www.entrygear.com

quote:
Originally posted by Dog Off Leash:
Rog-o guys

Why have the triangle-shaped attachment point secured by velcro and a separate part of the belt, instead of the buckle itself(like in the Wilderness model)?


It's just another design. The Wilderness buckle is patented and I don't believe Wilderness licenses the buckle to anyone else.

The velcro only secures the buckle to keep it from flopping around. On another note, the separate triangle buckle is a little more comfortable if you have to use it for attachment, it allows for the attachment point to be perpendicular from the belt vs. the Wilderness buckle which does not pivot and the attachment is static.

"It stops hurting as soon as the pain goes away" -er doc

quote:
Why have the triangle-shaped attachment point secured by velcro and a separate part of the belt, instead of the buckle itself(like in the Wilderness model)?


Why seperate? Well, if it was me I would want the D-ring seperate so not to put stress on the buckle itself. Also, if you were to hook in to the Wilderness belt, if the rope or safety tether pulls away from you I would think the buckle wouldstart jabbing you in the gut from the opposite side.

just my two cents.

mercUSA

Joined: 12/26/02        

location:Retired 11B in southern AZ

Can't tell you why the different designs. The Wilderness belt is called an "Instructors Belt" instead. Is not for climbing per. se. but for climbing and related instructors. Like, if you hang out a lot at the top of a tower or edge of a cliff; you are not likely to fall off so don't want the hassle, chafing, etc. of a full harness, but boy is it bad to fall down 8 stories. So, you biner a safety line to this reinforced belt.

Edit: while I stick to my story about Wilderness, see far below for BL's story on the riggger's belt
A rigger's belt is more properly called a safety belt. Presumably, a safety belt for a rigger. Used instead of a full harness, see above but for an industrial/construction setting. Here's what they really look like now:
Presumably (I only know the Wilderness development history) someone got to the same place as the Wilderness with a safety belt short of a harness for airborne or rappelling training, then figured out it was real stiff so stripped it down to minimum needed for that purpose, at which point the double side attachments became one nearer the front. Probably.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

quote:
Presumably, a safety belt for a rigger.


Its called a 'riggers belt' because several years ago, someone went to their units rigger shed and said " can you make me a belt using parachute webbing and hardware?" They were made by riggers hence the name.

mercUSA

Joined: 12/26/02        

location:Retired 11B in southern AZ

The belts are also good for safety on rappelling towers, as well as a safety device when Fastroping. Attach the tether to the V-ring, the other end to a ring in the chopper, and you're set. Once you get/give the 30 second warning, unhook and get ready yo rope.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes." Thomas Jefferson

Come in handy for strapping in when shooting a long gun out of a helo as well. Or at least that's what I've been told... Wink
---------------------------------- THEY ARE NOT WORTHY OF YOUR CONCERN AND TRUTH BE TOLD – IN THE PIT OF THEIR COWARDLY HEARTS – THEY WISH THEY COULD BE LIKE YOU. LTC Randolph C. White Jr Have a very SF day.© ἤ τᾶν ἤ ἐπί τᾶς
Hijack On:

So if you have a safety lanyard for working around a helo (shooting out of, fast-roping from, or just catching a ride) what do you do with it when you get your happy ass on the ground???

I'm asking because during some recent exercises I could have used one. During my research of the safety lanyards I was wondering where they were stowed when not in use. Sorry for the noob question but I didn't see any discussion or pictures to answer my question.

Thanks boys,

Josh

Josh

I understand the need for quality in a backup device like the rigger belt, but are they really worth the near $40? I found one in a box at a surplus store and since the cashier had no idea what it was, I got it for $2, looks every bit as stable as the $40 ones, but I guess I'm just curious why they're $40... Maybe I'm missing the picture...
quote:
I understand the need for quality in a backup device like the rigger belt, but are they really worth the near $40? I found one in a box at a surplus store and since the cashier had no idea what it was, I got it for $2, looks every bit as stable as the $40 ones, but I guess I'm just curious why they're $40... Maybe I'm missing the picture...


Ask yourself this, do I place my life in a high location on a well built piece of gear or someone's homemade project that was made with cheap materials.

mercUSA

Joined: 12/26/02        

location:Retired 11B in southern AZ

I retail me belts for $35.00 which is what they have been for the past 10 years. The metal alone costs over $10.00. With that $35.00 price tag you get a piece of gear that will never fail. Even when the velcro wears out years later just send it in and We'll replace the velcro on it for free.
My belts are one single piece of webbing that is double layered and sewn with an x every 4 inches. they also have 1.5" loop velcro on the entire inside so that and gear you put on the belt locks into place. They are also built to have a few inches of adjustment so they can be worn with heavier clothing.


Thank You
John Willis (founder of SOE)
jwillis10@san.rr.com
quote:
So if you have a safety lanyard for working around a helo (shooting out of, fast-roping from, or just catching a ride) what do you do with it when you get your happy ass on the ground???

I'm asking because during some recent exercises I could have used one. During my research of the safety lanyards I was wondering where they were stowed when not in use. Sorry for the noob question but I didn't see any discussion or pictures to answer my question.



The only safety tethers I've actually used were made from rope Swiss seats. I just recently found the manufactured lanyards on the market, and haven't had a chance to use one yet.

The CCT boys we jumped with a while back had the carabiner attached to the V-ring on the rigger's belt. The other end has some form of QD device. I'm not sure what it's called, but the lanyard was routed around the person's back and attached somewhere on the right side of the belt. It may have been to a belt loop, but it was hard to tell as they were chuted up.

Looks to me like you'd shed the tether as soon as tactically possible, unless you were being picked up right away. Looks like it would be an easy thing to get hung up.

Blackhawk, TAG, and DBT make the lanyards, and none I've seen would take up much space in a ruck once you were done with them.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes." Thomas Jefferson

As for belt quality, some cothing sales stores are selling belts that resemble rigger's belts, but are only glorified BDU belts. I'm sure the webbing would stand up to quite a bit of abuse, but would question the stitching and metal hardware.

If all you need is a cool looking belt, go for it. If there's any chance of using it as a back-up safety device, $40 for a "real" rigger's belt is worth the cost.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes." Thomas Jefferson

BL & Others - thanks guys.

GG - nice to see ya again, bro. Long time no speak.

I actually own a Wilderness belt, and have been wearing it for about 5 years. I was just curious as to the history of the riggers belt, how it came about, why it is designed the way it is, etc.

Thanks guys!
I was at the local outdoor store this past weekend and saw what looked like a riggers belt. It was a single layer of rather floppy nylon with an integrated triangle link and friction adapter (a la the Wilderness belts). Except the hardware was polished cast pot metal. the label said something along the lines of "This belt was inspired by the 'last chance' safety belts used by climbing instructors and other people who are a lot cooler than you slack ass."

The price was about what you'd pay for a lower-end real rigger's belt. Roll Eyes

And this at a store that sells actual climbing gear . . . . Frown
[I]"Intelligence merely allows you to be more elaborately and ornately disastrously wrong." [/I]
They hold your pants up real good with holster and mags attached!

The only thing I ever used the triangle attachment point for was to dummy cord a swim bag to while on my back. COTS climbing equipment is what you use for safety gear. Failing having that I'd use a kermantle swiss seat or harness tied together using tubular nylon before I'd be doing anything with a riggers belt that involved my life being in the balance.
For my LSHD self, I just appreciate the roll-resistance of a rigger's belt when wearing stuff on it. It also makes for a stable, secure platform when drawing/reholstering a pistol. You don't want the belt and holster following the pistol when you're trying to pull it out of there. The buckle/triangle just falls under the "it doesn't bother me and might actually come in handy someday" category. One of the best belts I ever used (purely for pistol packing) was a Galco Wilderness-inspired instructor belt. I think it must have been reinforced with plastic, it was so stiff. VERY secure flatform, but it lacked velcro on the inside.

 

Adversity is another way to measure the greatness of individuals.  -Lou Holtz

Or as I have always thought of them, "an A7A strap that you don't have to steal from the Air Corps".



Gary

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A difficult child at best, fit neither for the cloth nor the pen, too dangerous to be unleashed upon society and too horrible to let live, but yet too brilliant and unique to destroy; He was eventually given over to The Ft. Benning School For Boys to receive the proper education and be brought up right -as both a savior and destroyer of man.

OK a little mere info on the riggers belt just in case that headache isn't bad enough already. I looked in my files and found a testing sheet from Metals Engineering and Testing Labs, Phx, Az Sept 23, 1997, provided to me by Ralph Holshaus (The Wilderness).The nylon 1 3/4 inch webbing T-X111 4088 is tested to 6000 lbs. The buckel MS 70102-2 FC0890 is tested to 2500 lbs. The thread used is 92 wt polyester blend U. V. treated. All are milspec materials. Additionally in the shooters belt there are polystyrene or vinyl pvc inserts in between the nylon layers to stiffen the belts so that they dont crush under the weight of gunbelts and gear. So there is a little more there than you might think. Additionally you are paying for the testing and certification and the initial patent and trademarking. But you get a belt as I did, that has lasted me for 7 years and has only had to have the velcro replaced once. Now take two aspirin and go to bed.
Mine is worn as mandatory poser kit. All my poser pals have one...so naturally I won't be eligible to understand the acronyms or other man killin lingo or otherwise stand in those leaning forward circles. Unless I'm wearing my sunday go-to-battle belt....I have two.

PS: They do support belt kit nicely

Dusty black coat and a red right hand.

quote:
Originally posted by Davehal9000:
quote:
So if you have a safety lanyard for working around a helo (shooting out of, fast-roping from, or just catching a ride) what do you do with it when you get your happy ass on the ground???

I'm asking because during some recent exercises I could have used one. During my research of the safety lanyards I was wondering where they were stowed when not in use. Sorry for the noob question but I didn't see any discussion or pictures to answer my question.



The only safety tethers I've actually used were made from rope Swiss seats. I just recently found the manufactured lanyards on the market, and haven't had a chance to use one yet.

The CCT boys we jumped with a while back had the carabiner attached to the V-ring on the rigger's belt. The other end has some form of QD device. I'm not sure what it's called, but the lanyard was routed around the person's back and attached somewhere on the right side of the belt. It may have been to a belt loop, but it was hard to tell as they were chuted up.

Looks to me like you'd shed the tether as soon as tactically possible, unless you were being picked up right away. Looks like it would be an easy thing to get hung up.

Blackhawk, TAG, and DBT make the lanyards, and none I've seen would take up much space in a ruck once you were done with them.


I've got my TAG tether and two carabiners in a strobe pouch on my Hellcat. They don't take up any room and I always have it on me. Just have to pull it out and hook up to the belt and whatever I do not care falling off of.

Famous last words..."Hold my beer, watch this"!

quote:
I've found the triangle link does a decent job as a bottle opener if you're in a pinch. But that's a hush-hush Megaforce thing.

You haven't been issued a LaRue Field Survival Tool? Confused
[I]"Intelligence merely allows you to be more elaborately and ornately disastrously wrong." [/I]
Just remember that your belt is only secured to your waist via TINY vertical loops. As said before, it should only be a last ditch or emergency suspension device. BUT, if you want to make it more secure, do what I used to do and get the riggers to make you some leg loops. Of course, you'll look like a total dork walking around garrison, so save 'em for the field.

-Brando --------------------- Science is like a good friend: sometimes it tells you things you don't want to hear. It tells you the truth. And we all know how much that can hurt, don't we, fatso? Faith, Science and Evolution in a Nutshell

Different companies configure the belts differently but they all provide a mounting spot for a carabiner. Riggers belts are not for everyday rappeling but you can use them in an emergency if you have no other choice and rappel slowly. I go rappeling alot and would not want to try using my riggers belt. It doesn't matter how strong they say the belt is if the belt loops on your pants can't hold up to your weight. A riggers belt is better suited for attaching a safety lanyard while in a helicopter or other aircraft.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2019
×
×
×
×
×