Topic has come up while discussing our likely to be enacted new laws here in Virginia. Are there any rimfire rounds worthy of consideration for self defense? Pistols clearly have better ballistic options that will still be legal, but considering if there are any centerfire rounds that would be usable in a carbine type platform to get the accuracy benefit of a stocked weapon.

Original Post

Why down grade all the way to rimfire just to use a stock?

Why not run a Ruger Gunsite  Scout Rifle or something? Or an 870? Semi auto and standard capacity mags ain't the end all, be all. Full power hits on target still is...

If the 2A hits keep coming, someone is going to come out with a straight pull rifle that uses 5 and 10 round AR 15 or 10 mags. It will be fast, accurate, light, powerful and for awhile.... 50 state legal.

Regardless of why/why not, I like this topic. Cuz why not?

 

I've got an M&P15 in .22. It's really fun to shoot, very accurate, and cheap to feed. Self defense?  It's not my first choice for rim fire.  I really want to find an AR platform in .17 HMR. 

 

I've got a bolt gun in .17 and it's extremely accurate a bit past 200 yards, turns ground squirrels into a very satisfying pink mist, and is more than adequate for coyotes.  People ain't much tougher. It's sends a 17 grn bullet out around 2500 fps.  Inside of 100 yards, I'd trust it to do some serious damage, especially several rounds. 

 

I haven't dove head first into rim fire really. I've got a handful, but they're trainers/plinkers.  Been thinking of getting into it more just for fun. 

 

I know there are obviously better options for self defense, but variety is the spice of life right?

If there would be a ban on centerfire-semiauto rifles, why not go back to the American classic lever action rifles? In .357 it holds 10 rounds of a lot more powerful ammo than a .22 which in a lever action holds 14 (I think)

 

Last edited by Community Member

I’ve seen enough misfires and read enough to believe that rimfires aren’t the best choice from a reliability standpoint.  Apparently the priming mix is squirted into the rim and gaps aren’t unusual.  Once upon a time I believe someone made a rimfire with two firing pins to double the chances of  success.   Having said that KelTec’s CMR-30 looks like a good way to send some .22WMR grief downrange. 

My fall back if my AR shaped rifles all dissolve is a .44 Mag Marlin levergun.  I can reload ammo for that cartridge for years with what I have on my shelf. 

I've shot a ton of .44/.357 in lever guns (never more than 100 yds), but almost nothing in a .22 long gun. Which is less affected at distance, .22 with wind or pistol calibers with drop?

Wind applies force proportional to the surface area of the bullet (more complex than that since it is a curved surface, etc.)  Bullet weight resists the force (inertia).  The heavier .44 or .357 bullet has a lot more inertia, and while usually slower than a hot .22, not by much.  Velocity determines how long the wind exerts force at a given range.   The .22 suffers more wind effect at 100 yds than the pistol bullets because of the huge difference in inertia and momentum.

Not a ballistician, but your bullet drop should be fairly consistent especially in the ranges we are dealing with. I had 1-2 mil swings on wind last weekend inside 100 yards with my .22.

I would rather have the pistol caliber carbine.

I wouldn't want to go up against  someone who knew what they were doing with a Ruger 10/22 and some mags loaded with CCI Mini-Mags.

I can't remember ever having a bad round of Mini-Mags, others yes but not them.

I've often thought if I could only have one gun for survival in the apocalypse it would be a Winchester 94/22 in 22mag and an assortment of different loads.  The loading a tubular mag thing would be a pain.

I still kick myself for passing on a used 94/22 in 22mag with a 16" barrel at a good price shortly after they were discontinued.   Did I mention  recurring bouts of stupid?

stray round posted:

I wouldn't want to go up against  someone who knew what they were doing with a Ruger 10/22 and some mags loaded with CCI Mini-Mags.

I can't remember ever having a bad round of Mini-Mags, others yes but not them.

I've often thought if I could only have one gun for survival in the apocalypse it would be a Winchester 94/22 in 22mag and an assortment of different loads.  The loading a tubular mag thing would be a pain.

I still kick myself for passing on a used 94/22 in 22mag with a 16" barrel at a good price shortly after they were discontinued.   Did I mention  recurring bouts of stupid?

Yea I have a Ruger 96/22Mag and it's a keeper. Sold it to a friend in a moment of weakness, then got it back. Stupid accurate with ammo it likes - 5 shots in an inch at 100 yards, off a bag. Only issue I have with it is the stock. It's a bit short in the LOP, and the drop is a bit low for scope use. Thinking of just adding a aftermarket buttpad that might add a bit to the length. Secondary prices on these rifles are crazy right now. Always wondered how the .44 Mag version shot.

 

I pretty much went with what STRAY ROUND posted when a friend asked. She has a 10-22 she takes camping. So the .22 LR can only do so much, number of rounds on target is important. Made sure to get some quality 25 round mags to go with the CCI Mini Mags.

Dave

Last edited by Community Member

I would recommend a 30-30  lever gun.  Reasonably flat to 200 yards. Or, If you're willing to get into hand-loading,  45-70. Both cartridges have been used quite successfully for self defense. The only advantage I see with .357/.44 mag is of you are carrying a handgun same caliber. It is not hard to reload a lever gun as you go with practice.

CAE5 posted:

I would recommend a 30-30  lever gun.  Reasonably flat to 200 yards. Or, If you're willing to get into hand-loading,  45-70. Both cartridges have been used quite successfully for self defense. The only advantage I see with .357/.44 mag is of you are carrying a handgun same caliber. It is not hard to reload a lever gun as you go with practice.

The difference is follow up shots. I've owned a lot of hyphenated lever guns, .30-30, .38-55, .45-70. They absolutely have distance and trajectory over the pistol calibers, but I could always put three to five shots on target with my .357 and .44 faster than two with the others. Now I've run thousands of rounds through them, so that makes a difference as well, it's a lot harder to practice with those larger calibers.

Malpaso posted:
CAE5 posted:

I would recommend a 30-30  lever gun.  Reasonably flat to 200 yards. Or, If you're willing to get into hand-loading,  45-70. Both cartridges have been used quite successfully for self defense. The only advantage I see with .357/.44 mag is of you are carrying a handgun same caliber. It is not hard to reload a lever gun as you go with practice.

The difference is follow up shots. I've owned a lot of hyphenated lever guns, .30-30, .38-55, .45-70. They absolutely have distance and trajectory over the pistol calibers, but I could always put three to five shots on target with my .357 and .44 faster than two with the others. Now I've run thousands of rounds through them, so that makes a difference as well, it's a lot harder to practice with those larger calibers.

I have leverguns in .30/30, .45/70 and .44, the pistol caliber rifle is a bit quicker on follow up shots.  The .45/70 rarely needs followup shots.  

Rick R2 posted:
Malpaso posted:
CAE5 posted:

I would recommend a 30-30  lever gun.  Reasonably flat to 200 yards. Or, If you're willing to get into hand-loading,  45-70. Both cartridges have been used quite successfully for self defense. The only advantage I see with .357/.44 mag is of you are carrying a handgun same caliber. It is not hard to reload a lever gun as you go with practice.

The difference is follow up shots. I've owned a lot of hyphenated lever guns, .30-30, .38-55, .45-70. They absolutely have distance and trajectory over the pistol calibers, but I could always put three to five shots on target with my .357 and .44 faster than two with the others. Now I've run thousands of rounds through them, so that makes a difference as well, it's a lot harder to practice with those larger calibers.

I have leverguns in .30/30, .45/70 and .44, the pistol caliber rifle is a bit quicker on follow up shots.  The .45/70 rarely needs followup shots.  

For hunting, definitely. The topic is self defense, which I have no experience in, so that was speculation based on my use of the square range.

I agree,  my two .45/70 rifles only hold 4(+1), that round was designed to take a horse out from under an enemy soldier over 100 years ago and recovery can be a bit slow.  

My .44 holds 10(+1) and would be my “bump in the night” rifle if semiautos were forbidden.  Unless I lived somewhere that 600 lb predators bumped around in the dark. 

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