Semi vs Pump shotguns

How many LEOs trust a Benelli M1 as opposed to a 870 Police Magnum?

I've had too many bad experiences with reliability of semi shotguns that I've wondered what LEOs think.

As a "civilian" we're not likely to cycle through a lot of sgn ammunition and shotgun shells seem to me to be the most easily contaminated as they sit on a storage shelf awaiting whatever scenario you think might occur. 

Just wondering what you guy's thoughts on this subject might be.

When life plays a joke on you..............joke back.

Original Post

I keep an 870PM for work and travel, we use 870s for LL at work. A Benelli with a trained shooter and good ammo is reliable and fast as hell.  Modern semis have come a long way. A Beretta 1301, any Benelli, Remington Versamax i would have no real issue carrying. That said i carry an AR by preference for 90% of what i need a long gun for defensively.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

My first introduction to the Remington 870 and 1100 was as a kid learning to shoot clay pigeons.  With the help of my Dad, I bought my first one 870 (20ga Wingmaster) when I was 14yoa, retail cost of $124.  The Remington 870 is my all around, and to me no other pump shotgun feels like it.

I first got introduced to the Benelli 121 as a SWAT gun in 1989.  It was soon replaced with the Benelli M1-90.  As a SWAT gun, it was mostly loaded with buckshot, but also sometimes slugs.  For gas ferret rounds, bean bags, wood dowel rounds, rubber buck & slug, tail fin rounds, and door breachers, we used the Remington 870, as the rounds were too light in power factor to reliably cycle in semi-automatic actions.   

In 1997 we had an armorer car heist in our area (similar to Heat) where the badguys were armed with rifles , that woke up our administration that bad things and bad people are in our back yard.  The very next day I was tasked by our Chief to update all Officers on tactics, and to reequip all cars with rifle plates & carriers, kevlar helmets, ballistic shields, along with upgrading our shotguns to coincide with our current carry M16A1's (converted to semi-auto for patrol) and Remington 870's.

Our administration decided to upgrade from 870's to the Benelli M1-90's for patrol, configured in a 14" barrel with tritium ghost ring sights, oversized  charging handles & safeties, side saddle shell carrier, Surefire lights, and Wilderness Giles 3pt slings.  We went with the tritium ghost ring sights and 3pt slings, as this was the same type set up that we were already running on the patrol rifles.    

I was present all range days when we did the 8-hr transition on the Benelli agency wide.  We had each shooter go through 150  bird shot, 25 buck, 10 slugs, and everyone did well with no issues.  We did a follow up range session 6-weeks later with all staff that was a 4-hour block where they all shot another 100 bird, 20 buck, and 10 slugs, and again everyone did well with no issues.  

About 2-months later, we were doing firearms qualifications county wide (about 475 Officers to run through), which is staffed by Firearms Instructors from every agency county wide.  We had our second in command and his minion (both day shifters) go to the range and attempt to qualify on the county shotgun course, which consisted of 5-slugs at 25yds, and 5-buck from 10yds (Not my choice of a course of fire), and these two couldn't get the Benelli's from their vehicles to run, they were stove piping (fail to eject), and to note None of my agencies firearms instructors were present on the range at the time.  

That very afternoon I got woken up (I was a night shifter where real police work happens) with a phone call to come in to see the Chief, as there was a problem with the Benelli's.   When I got to the Chief's office, the second in command and his minion were there, and they were both glaring at me.  The Chief explained to me that these two just returned from the county range qualifications, and their issued Benelli's wouldn't run.  The second in command spoke up stating that it was my armorers staff fault, as the guns were lacking lubrication and that is why they wouldn't run.  I asked to explain to me what he meant.  He stated that the guns wouldn't eject the empty shell, causing it to jamb.  That he and his minion both had the same issue.  He went on to explain that the Firearms Instructor from another agency who was running this section of the range tried to help but knew nothing about the Benelli.  This Firearms Instructor had a spray can of silicone lube, of which the second in command sprayed into the ejection port onto the action, and after several repeat sprayings of the magic silicone the shotguns ran reliable enough that he and his minion could qualify.

After listening to this, I stated to all 3 of the people present in the room other than myself that I disagree, that the shotguns had plenty of lube, and that they must have been doing something that was shooter induced.  My comments didn't go over well, and this is where I will stand my ground as the guns do run with no issues.  Basically it started getting into an argument, as this second in command wasn't going to let some underling such as myself know more about things than his ego does.  My Chief was watching this exchange, and he looked up at me stating to schedule some range time, and let's all go to the range and do a test shoot.

The very next afternoon we went to the range, Chief, second in command & his minion, along with one of my other firearms instructor & armorer staff.  I had the second in command & his minion get their shotguns from their vehicles.  I had them load with buckshot and attempt to shoot, and each of them stove piped every round.  My other instructor and I shot their guns and they ran fine.  So I handed the guns back to them and neither of them could get them to run, so my instructor and myself shot them again and they ran fine. 

I had the second in command grab his magic can of silicone spray and lube the way he did, and try shooting again and neither of them could get the guns to run.  I grabbed the can and hosed the guns down so the magic silicone lube was dripping out, and had them try and shoot, and neither of them could get the guns to run.  

I then field stripped the guns down, and pulled out a can of carburetor cleaner and sprayed everything down to remove all traces of oil, silicone, grease, etc, to the point that the guns were dryer than a popcorn fart.  I then reassembled the guns and both my instructor and I shot 25rds each through them reliably. I handed them to the second in command and his minion who couldn't get them to cycle at all.  My instructor and I then ran another 25rds each through them, both guns cycling reliably even though they were dry.

So then I loaded grabbed the magic can of silicone spray and repeated the soaking of the actions so they were dripping again, we repeated having the second in command and his minion try and shoot, but they couldn't get the guns to cycle.  I then loaded their guns with dummy rounds, without them knowing, and had them attempt to shoot.  When they both tried to shoot on a dummy round, you could see them flinch and anticipate the recoil, which is was the issue  of operator induced malfunctions.

My Chief was sitting back watching this entire thing, and finally stepped in stating to me that I see that you proved your point that it was operator induced, and not a problem with lubrication.  My Chief also looked at me and said that I probably didn't make any friend points with either of these command staff, and you could see the second in command was very pissed that I showed him that it was his doing.  

My Chief asked me to see what I could do to make the Benelli's more reliable if possible.  So for the next month I researched.  Benelli stated that by putting on the side saddle, over sized charging handles, and Surefire lights, that I have thrown off the intertia of the guns, so to get them to run reliable I would need to remove those aftermarket parts.  

So in my research I purchased about every type of bird shot, buck shot, and slugs that I could find at several local guns shops, Cabelas, Gander Mtn, etc.  I and a couple of my instructor & armorer staff spent hours on the range trying every ammo that we had acquired.  What we concluded is that the Benelli is extremely reliable if run with the right power factor.  

What he had been using for duty buck shot and slugs was Federal Reduced Recoil loads.  The reduced recoil loads ran reliably for everyone by the second in command & his minion, as they both would anticipate recoil and flinch (like limp wristing a handgun), causing the guns to fail to eject. 

What we found is that the Benelli's will run reliably 100% with the reduced recoil loads if the shooter doesn't anticipate the recoil and do any type of body movements that would take away the inertia energy from the cycling of the action.

We also found is that the Benelli's will cycle reliably if you use a heavier loading.  We found that if you run a shot weight of 1-1/8-oz or heavier, and a powder weight of 3-3/4 drams, that the guns will run no matter how much the second in command & his minion want to flinch.  So I switched all of our buckshot and slugs over to heavier loadings, and for training birdshot we use a heavy field load.  With the heavier loads the guns are relaible, no matter what after market accessories we use, and no matter how wet or dry the guns are in all weather conditions.  

So if you apply this same knowledge to other semi-auto shotguns like the Remington 1100/1187, which is a gas gun, it also requires a certain power factor to make it run reliably.  You will find that trap & skeet type guns are set up for light loads, where Police & Military models are set up for heavier loads, and waterfowl hunting guns are set up for very heavy loads (which won't like lightweight target loads).

Pump guns will run everything, and when looking at semi-auto's you will need to match the gun & ammunition.

CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123           

Excellent write-up Sully, thanks. 

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Joined: 29 May 2008          Location: AZ

sully posted:
[Serious education]                

 

   

 

                   

---------------------------------

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It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Sully"s write up is the kind of info I'm looking for.

I recently picked up (impulse buy) an M1 S90 with screw in chokes (has a LT MOD in it) and ghost ring sights that  was a police dept trade-in. It also appears to have a  sliding Giles type sling on it. The price was right. Exterior has a little "seasoning" on it but internals look little used, probably riding a lot and shot little. 

When life plays a joke on you..............joke back.

sully posted:


So if you apply this same knowledge to other semi-auto shotguns like the Remington 1100/1187, which is a gas gun, it also requires a certain power factor to make it run reliably.  You will find that trap & skeet type guns are set up for light loads, where Police & Military models are set up for heavier loads, and waterfowl hunting guns are set up for very heavy loads (which won't like lightweight target loads).

                   

What he said...in spades!  I once picked up an 1187 and it wouldn't run on anything but hi-brass, full power ammo.  Forget cheap birdshot for practice or shotgun matches.  The only birdshot I used that worked was Turkey loads.  Otherwise, it was full power slugs or buckshot.  Nothing labeled "reduced recoil" would run the gun.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I don't have a Benelli,  but I have a mix of Remington semi-auto shotguns. The closest one to being "tactical" is the Versmax tactical. The rest are long-barreled bird and clay guns.  

If you feed them what they are designed to run with, they work fine. They require less input from the operator than the pump guns. 

The Versamax shoots just about everything I've fed it.  But it is big and long. Kinda pricey in that configuration too (I bought it after a Rem armorer school with a decent discount). 

My understanding is inertia operated shotguns are more finicky than gas guns. All I have are gas guns, and I can't remember them choking on the normal range of ammo while murdering poor birds and clay pigeons. 

At work, we have nothing but 870s. But breaching shotguns are separate from less lethal are separate from lethal.  If you plan on just running it as a lethal shotgun, I can't imagine it wouldn't do well for you.  If you start trying to push it into service doing other stuff shooting other ammo, I can't imagine it will work well for you.  

 

PS - I with Remington would make a tactical version of the V3. It is smaller and lighter than the versamax, and would be better in that role IMO. A 14" gun with a stubby stock and good recoil pad would be just fine with me. 

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

I "learned " on a Rem. 1100 shooting clay pigeons in my early 20's.  It ran everything my old boss and I handloaded for it.  Couldn't tell you what the loads were, though, that was 30 + years ago.   I use a Mossy 500A for home defense now. 12 pellet 00 buck stays in it at all times.  I've patterned it and its good for the length of my hallways 15 to 18 yards in an 18.5" barrel. I need a 20" and an extended mag tube.

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
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Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

The pro for pump guns is that they will shoot anything, but the con is that they are susceptible to short stroking by the user.  I don't use a pump gun much nowadays, but periodically I will train with an 870 to maintain skill. 

I prefer a self-loading shotgun, having owned several types,  I prefer the Benelli M2.  The Benelli M1/M2 is very reliable if, as Sully notes, you use appropriate power ammunition (similar to any other self-loading firearm, you cannot go too light with the loads, just like if you put 87 octane in a car that requires 91 octane . . . ) and do not make the gun excessively heavy.  I use side saddle constructed from nylon, Velcro, elastic, don't load it with more than 6 shots, and use a 6P type SF light, to keep the added weight minimal.  

You can also induce short stroking in them by pulling the gun excessively hard into your shoulder, thus robbing it of the inertia it needs to operate.  In my experience, this is more of a parlor trick than a real problem, and can be exacerbated by using light loads.  

The need to keep the M1/M2 from being too heavy (I prefer a light gun anyways) and to not use powder puff loads means that these guns can have increased perceived recoil over some other guns.  When the adrenaline is flowing, this is not something that will be noticed.

When using a weaponlight, I also prefer a self-loader instead of a pump because it's easier to keep the light on when the forend doesn't have to move.  It's sort of a training/setup issue, but easier is easier, thus my preference.  

Single purpose / Single load gun? Auto- but do you rangework and match the loads to the gun.

Multipurpose gun? Pump gun. 

I've got Mossys, Remingtons, Stevens, JC Higgins, Winchesters, and Benelli pump guns.

Hands down, the smoothest, slickest, and quickest action from the factory  Winchester 1300 Defender.

Parts availability- Remington 870

Waste of safe space- Benelli Nova.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

I have been running the same H&K marked Benelli M1 Super 90 since the mid-1990s.  Scary reliable through two shotgun classes and numerous trips to the range.

Lately I have been thinking about purchasing a Benelli M4.  This way I can leave the M1 stock and run the M4 with an RDS, Surefire Light, etc.

Does anyone have any experiences with the M4 they could share?

Thanks,

Tony

I have around 2k of everything through a Versamax Sportsman.  Crap Walmart birdshot, buck, slugs, weird hunting loads, 3 1/2" magnums, it eats it all. The only problems I have had were light strikes around 1k- this is a known issue I ignored.  The cause is crappy materials in the hammer and spring.  I replaced with Benelli parts and haven't had an issue since.  

Antonius posted:

I have been running the same H&K marked Benelli M1 Super 90 since the mid-1990s.  Scary reliable through two shotgun classes and numerous trips to the range.

Lately I have been thinking about purchasing a Benelli M4.  This way I can leave the M1 stock and run the M4 with an RDS, Surefire Light, etc.

Does anyone have any experiences with the M4 they could share?

Thanks,

Tony

Personally, I think it's a little over-rated given how much it costs plus what you have to put in on top of that to get the mag capacity and stock squared away (if it doesn't come with what you want).  I always equated it to the HK SOCOM/Mk23...in that its bulk/weight and monetary cost wasn't worth it for the added function/reliability.   I don't think it offers that much more to most users than an M1 or M2 unless you want to hang tons of shit off of it (which the other inertia only systems were sensitive to).  

Of all the Benelli M series, I think the M4's I owned had the shortest tenure in my rotation.  It would be my bottom pick for the M's were it not for the M3 and its contradictory manual of arms (compared to the M1, M2, and M4). 

Were I to get into gauges again (which I've been considering), I would not look past either an M2 or Beretta 1301.  

 ETA: Mind you this is all in the context of personally-owned shotguns in IL...where shorty's aren't allowed.  An M4 entry has more appeal and negates the mag tube issues.  With more modern co-witness mounts, the heft might not be such a bad thing in that case.  For full-length (18"+ barrel), I stand by the above.

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

If I was starting over and buying my own , I'd seek out a  nice Japanese made Browning Auto 5 and stock up on low recoil buck/slugs.

A couple of years ago I bought a 1951 made A5 and inside  the action was full of a greasy mixture of oil,dirt, debris. leaf duff and the thing still functioned like a champ.    

So if one is looking for an 18” barrel pump gun for defensive/Tactical use... late we pointing to Mossberg or is a current production 870 still the place to go?  Mossberg always seemed to have a poor rep but with Remington going down the tube which is better?  Or is there another maker I’m not aware of. 

“They were two douchebags who met in the normal course of being two douchebags.” - Sully, Third Watch

I was just minutes ago chatting with some people re: a slug gun to defend against polar bear on a sail trip, and I was going Mossy Mariner. While people have their preferences, I have never heard of "a poor rep" about Mossberg. Did I miss something? 

OTOH, forget the bankruptcy reorg, have heard QA issues (not all bad, literally QA, hit and miss) from Remington for about this whole decade. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

ggammell posted:

So if one is looking for an 18” barrel pump gun for defensive/Tactical use... late we pointing to Mossberg or is a current production 870 still the place to go?  Mossberg always seemed to have a poor rep but with Remington going down the tube which is better?  Or is there another maker I’m not aware of. 

Go to gunbroker, search "870 Police Wingmaster" and see what you find.  While they lack some of the features of current production guns (like flex tabe), they also lack many of the fleas of the current production.  They get overlooked because they don't shoot 3" magnums...which isn't a wise thing to do anyways.

 

"Pain, we endure...faulty weaponry, we do not."

shoobe01 posted:

I was just minutes ago chatting with some people re: a slug gun to defend against polar bear on a sail trip, and I was going Mossy Mariner. While people have their preferences, I have never heard of "a poor rep" about Mossberg. Did I miss something?

I’ve never heard of a poor rep for Mossberg, either. And I’ve been shooting/buying 500’s going back to the early 80’s. It may be that they have just been perceived as playing 2nd fiddle to the 870.  

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

I have not owned a Moss 500 for decades, but the only thing I can say bad about them is initially they are a little more rough than the Rem.  I didn't use it enough to form any kind of negative opinion about it.  I don't think they're bad guns based on my limited experience at all. Just not my cop of tea because the vast majority of my shooting has been with Rems.  They're definitely more ambi-freindly than the Rems.  

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It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.

 

Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

Awerbuck once stated in an article while he preferred the 870 P, the 590s held up fine in high round count classes. I tend to put the 500 and 870 express in the same category qualitywise. 

I'v owned 500s, 870 Express and PM as well as a pair of Novas. For the bear gun, I'd take a Nova or SuperNova, 590 or 870PM and have no issues once running some rounds through them. 

 

The Express and 500 do fine for general shotgun work, ie killing birds, vermin, and if necessary defense. I just wouldn't specifically pick one over the PM or 590 if i had a choice for serious work.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

So this thread has got me thinking about going the SBS route, specifically a 14" gun.   A few options I am considering.

1.  Form 1 the Model 870P Max currently in my inventory.  This is the cheapest route since I already own the gun (older gun without the recent QA issues noted with Remington) and it already has accessories that I prefer.  It also means I don't have to explain to HH6 why I am buying another gun.  Issues I see are finding someone to engrave the barrel for BATF-E compliance and swapping a bead sight out for a Wilson Combat XS front sight since the factory barrels with XS sights also have a rear sight on the barrel which I do not need.

2.  Next, more expansive route is a used Benelli M1 Super 90 Entry model.  I saw on Gunbroker a dealer in Green Bay selling used LE trade-ins for around $800 and never used trade-ins for $1,300.   Issues I see is finding a Surefire 317LMG Forend Light in decent shape to go on it and the issues discussed by Sully above with the added weight of extra accessories.

3.  Most expensive but also most appealing  option is a new Benelli M4 Entry model.  Issues are cost, about $2K and no available forend light systems which I prefer.   Although it is supposed to run just fine on cheap range ammunition and/or reduced recoil tactical loads I have not been able to fully ascertain the veracity of this claim.

Any thoughts or considerations I missed?

x/S

 

¿Si no nosotros, que quien?

exSquid posted:

 

2.  Next, more expansive route is a used Benelli M1 Super 90 Entry model.  I saw on Gunbroker a dealer in Green Bay selling used LE trade-ins for around $800 and never used trade-ins for $1,300.   Issues I see is finding a Surefire 317LMG Forend Light in decent shape to go on it and the issues discussed by Sully above with the added weight of extra accessories. 

Several places I go on trips have police trades for very cheap, and often in the rack for years so you could probably negotiate. The prices you quoted seem crazy high unless my brain is failing me or they are much, much nicer guns. 

I know maybe not in your state, etc. but example cheaper one even on GB https://www.gunbroker.com/item/748448890

 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

SHOOBE01:

Yes the two examples I sighted are in way better condition than any others I have seen.  The more expensive is NOS that has been sitting in storage for years and has never been used.  (I would predict a serious collector would be interested in these guns.)

x/S

¿Si no nosotros, que quien?

exSquid posted:

So this thread has got me thinking about going the SBS route, specifically a 14" gun.   A few options I am considering.

1.   swapping a bead sight out for a Wilson Combat XS front sight since the factory barrels with XS sights also have a rear sight on the barrel which I do not need.

 

 

I'm not familiar with the WC XS front sight, but I've installed several of their Trak-Lock tritium sights on 14" barrels: grind the bead sight down with a dremel.  From there it's follow the directions that come with the sight.

I'm a sucker for social shotguns with my own being a customized Winchester '97 worked over by Ned Christiansen at Michiguns.  It will probably be buried with me.

Lately however, I have developed an itch for a Beretta 1301.  This video, showing some modifications (some of which are now incorporated in the latest models), has made the itch worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2hbmGIyZ2c      

David Reeves posted:

Single purpose / Single load gun? Auto- but do you rangework and match the loads to the gun.

Multipurpose gun? Pump gun. 

I've got Mossys, Remingtons, Stevens, JC Higgins, Winchesters, and Benelli pump guns.

Hands down, the smoothest, slickest, and quickest action from the factory  Winchester 1300 Defender.

Parts availability- Remington 870

Waste of safe space- Benelli Nova.

Dave, what do you not like about the Nova? They were the only ones I owned in the past, and I liked them enough. I need to get shotguns back into my safe. 870 or 590A1 are what you'd recommend as far as pumps? As far as autos, I want a Benelli M4, but it's exactly that: an "I want."

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

Having owned 2 Novas, a 18.5 ghost ring and current 28" birdslayer, also curious. I don't think they're spectacularly better or worse than the 870, but it gives Benelli a non $1200 gun to get people interested. Mine have both run very well even in a below freezing duck blind. 

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I purchased a NIB Beretta 1301 and so far the only problem I have had is cheap Estate brand buckshot gets stuck  in the action on the eject cycle. I have no idea why. MY guess is that the hulls are too long. This was a while back so I am little foggy on the details.

The Extractor posted:

I purchased a NIB Beretta 1301 and so far the only problem I have had is cheap Estate brand buckshot gets stuck  in the action on the eject cycle. I have no idea why. MY guess is that the hulls are too long. This was a while back so I am little foggy on the details.

Extractor I’ve run a case or two of Estate bird thru my first 1301T w/ zero issues but other brands of buck (<case) thru it also w/ zero issues.

eta - the Aridus shroud Mark mentions below was the first of 4 Aridus mods/parts I’ve used on my 1301T, all w/ zero issues & about to do sim. mods on a 2nd 1301.

Joined: 3.28.09            

Location: NETX

MWL posted:

Is the Beretta 1301 still spitting two shells onto the lift gate every time you bump that big button on the side?

Regards.

Mark

Aridus Industries http://www.aridusindustries.co...01-latch-and-shroud/ has a number of parts for the 1301, including a shrouded bolt release so it only releases the bolt, not a shell if you press the other end.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

hile posted:
David Reeves posted:

Single purpose / Single load gun? Auto- but do you rangework and match the loads to the gun.

Multipurpose gun? Pump gun. 

I've got Mossys, Remingtons, Stevens, JC Higgins, Winchesters, and Benelli pump guns.

Hands down, the smoothest, slickest, and quickest action from the factory  Winchester 1300 Defender.

Parts availability- Remington 870

Waste of safe space- Benelli Nova.

Dave, what do you not like about the Nova? They were the only ones I owned in the past, and I liked them enough. I need to get shotguns back into my safe. 870 or 590A1 are what you'd recommend as far as pumps? As far as autos, I want a Benelli M4, but it's exactly that: an "I want."

I guess you could say its a personal preference thing. 

The Nova - to me- feels "cheap" when compared to other Benellis and even feels cheap compared to my other pump guns.

I like the looks of it enough, and admittedly it functions well, however when I pick it up and manipulate it... it just -to me- oozes cheap and cheezy. 

When I first purchased it I had a little of the same feeling, but I figured it would grow on me, it has, just in the wrong direction.

Not every weapon "fits" every shooter, and what feels good to one may not feel good to another.



Dave

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

The one detracting factor I can see for  Nova is that I couldn't replace the stock if I wanted a shorter LOP. I just let it whallop me; I'd never heard of push-pull at that point. That said, as much as I liked the Novas that I owned previously (and the fact that they're inexpensive is a nice selling point),  I have expensive taste and kinda want a Border Patrol in the safe.  I've heard the Scattergun technologies guns are amazing. Thoughts there (as we go back toward the 870 vs 590A1 question.)

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

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bodhisattvyaaegis305
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