Semi vs Pump shotguns

The SuperNova fixed the LOP issue, but it "is" their budget gun..

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I bought a Benelli Supernova Tactical (SNT) on a whim a couple years ago. I was taking a shotgun course that highly recommended rifle sights for slugs and all I had at the time was a Remington 870 Super Magnum  with an XS Big Dot bead sight that I converted to an HD gun. Anyway, I acquired my Benelli SNT through private channels for much cheaper than buying a new Remington 870P or Mossberg 590. It already came with a Tac-Star (I know, I know) extended mag tube and a light ring (forget what manufacturer) for a WML. All I added was a Mesa Tactical 6-rd. Shell holder. 

I was able to put the gun through its paces at the Spartan Tactical 2-day Advanced Tactical Shotgun course. This was my first ever Shotgun training course. 500 rds of Birdshot (Federal bulk target loads from Wal-Mart), 200 rds of Buckshot (Fiocchi), 30 Slugs (Remington Slugger) , and about 100 rds of 9mm (Fiocchi 115gr). Man, running a pump gun gave me sore muscles I never knew I had, but I LOVED it and re-kindled my love for the scattergun. 

https://teamspartan.com/teamsp...l_Shotgun_Course.htm

Anyway...the performance of the Benelli SNT was nothing short of impressive. I kept up with, and in some cases, out paced many high-end autoloaders. Two of three Benelli M4s in class kept choking. Two Benelli M2s in class were jam-o-matics (one was straight out of the box and not "broken in" and the other was modded with aftermarket parts and springs, once the owner replaced the factory springs, it worked again). Me and another guy ran Benelli SNTs and our guns never skipped a beat. The only other pumps in class were Remington 870s and they didn't have problems, either. I recall a really finnicky Mossberg 930 SPX and two Beretta 1301s and an FN SLP that ran just fine. After all I've seen, I can understand the desirability of reliability in a pump gun. In a final round-robin, to the last man shooting drill, I took 2nd place with my Benelli SNT; losing to a highly modified Benelli M4 H2O with an Aimpoint T1. I'm not even mad considering my gun was a pump that cost about 1/4 of the price! 

The Benelli pump guns have very little aftermarket, but they are an excellent, quality no-frills shotgun. The SNT has since replaced my 870 as my bedside gun. 

_______________________

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is for good men to do nothing." ~Edmund Burke

 

"You are here to put in work...If you know AR 670-1 better than FM 7-8, get the fuck out of my face." ~MickFury

I've been keeping my eyes on the Beretta 1301 and I like what I'm seeing out of Aridus.

However, am I the only one that sees a problem with the weight of their shell carrier? The whole contraption is stated to weigh 7.8oz (they say the weight is the same as 6 rounds of 00). The carriers weigh 4.9oz.

My 870 is set up with velcro and some ESSTAC 7rd cards. No idea what the weight is, but it isn't much.

Any pros/cons for the Aridus shell carriers compared to the velcro ESSTAC cards?

(Any justification for spending $165 for a mount and a carrier plus $43 per extra carrier when I can spend $2 for a mount, and $15 per carrier?)

I just don't see it, but I have also never run a shotgun anything like hard and have zero clue as to the durability of either product under such use.

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"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

Been running the same 3 gun gear side saddle (Velcro card type) for many years on a Benelli and totally satisfied with it. 

The elastic loops can stretch out a bit, so I store the shotshells/slugs on it with the business end pointed downward, as insurance to keep them from falling out under recoil. 

JeffLester has an Archer Kanon tricked out 870 with an Aridus. Sturdy and cool but yes, the weight would become an issue for me.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Antonius posted:

I have been running the same H&K marked Benelli M1 Super 90 since the mid-1990s.  Scary reliable through two shotgun classes and numerous trips to the range.

Lately I have been thinking about purchasing a Benelli M4.  This way I can leave the M1 stock and run the M4 with an RDS, Surefire Light, etc.

Does anyone have any experiences with the M4 they could share?

Thanks,

Tony

Yes, I have owned roughly half a dozen M4 type shotguns, ranging from a 2001ish commemorative, to the common 11707, to a new commemorative of 2017 production, to now an SBS 14" Entry model that is currently pending.

Here are some general take-aways:

 

-Typically the lightest loading they would function with new out of the box was Remington 1-1/8oz STS 1145fps loads. They would do this even held firmly fired "from the hip".

-If you use a 7 shot tube or extension, you need the Carrier Comp or FFT magazine spring or failures will result.

-They like to run wet like an M4 carbine.

-They are just absurdly reliable and durable. I'd trust it to work out of the box more than I would a Glock 19.

-Pick up a few spare gas-plug O-rings if you are hamfisted about things in general.

-They can be treated like an AR/M4 carbine, shot for thousands of rounds without cleaning, just add some lube if/when it slows down.

-They pattern Flite Control a bit looser than other guns due to their tighter bores (about 12-16" at 25 yards depending on the FC load).

-They like Remington slugs, and Brenneke Classic Magnums, and Federal Truball.

-If you get a model with a choke tube, CYL is the best bet to get Flite Control to perform like Flite Control. The Mobil bore system is only 0.72X" ID, and FC likes large bore ID's. Slugs I've shot don't usually much care, but they will lead the choke decently if you don't use CYL constriction.

 

Any other questions, I'll try to answer.

danger_close posted:

I bought a Benelli Supernova Tactical (SNT) on a whim a couple years ago. I was taking a shotgun course that highly recommended rifle sights for slugs and all I had at the time was a Remington 870 Super Magnum  with an XS Big Dot bead sight that I converted to an HD gun. Anyway, I acquired my Benelli SNT through private channels for much cheaper than buying a new Remington 870P or Mossberg 590. It already came with a Tac-Star (I know, I know) extended mag tube and a light ring (forget what manufacturer) for a WML. All I added was a Mesa Tactical 6-rd. Shell holder. 

I was able to put the gun through its paces at the Spartan Tactical 2-day Advanced Tactical Shotgun course. This was my first ever Shotgun training course. 500 rds of Birdshot (Federal bulk target loads from Wal-Mart), 200 rds of Buckshot (Fiocchi), 30 Slugs (Remington Slugger) , and about 100 rds of 9mm (Fiocchi 115gr). Man, running a pump gun gave me sore muscles I never knew I had, but I LOVED it and re-kindled my love for the scattergun. 

https://teamspartan.com/teamsp...l_Shotgun_Course.htm

Anyway...the performance of the Benelli SNT was nothing short of impressive. I kept up with, and in some cases, out paced many high-end autoloaders. Two of three Benelli M4s in class kept choking. Two Benelli M2s in class were jam-o-matics (one was straight out of the box and not "broken in" and the other was modded with aftermarket parts and springs, once the owner replaced the factory springs, it worked again). Me and another guy ran Benelli SNTs and our guns never skipped a beat. The only other pumps in class were Remington 870s and they didn't have problems, either. I recall a really finnicky Mossberg 930 SPX and two Beretta 1301s and an FN SLP that ran just fine. After all I've seen, I can understand the desirability of reliability in a pump gun. In a final round-robin, to the last man shooting drill, I took 2nd place with my Benelli SNT; losing to a highly modified Benelli M4 H2O with an Aimpoint T1. I'm not even mad considering my gun was a pump that cost about 1/4 of the price! 

The Benelli pump guns have very little aftermarket, but they are an excellent, quality no-frills shotgun. The SNT has since replaced my 870 as my bedside gun. 

Do you know more about the "constantly choking M4's"? Such as, what ammo was being run, and what, if any, aftermarket parts were used, and what the failures looked like specifically?

 

I, too, have a SNT with ghost rings, and it's a great gun. I put a Steiner mag-cap light on it (it's a "farm gun" meant for coyotes, etc. in my case) and it's my do-all.

exSquid posted:

So this thread has got me thinking about going the SBS route, specifically a 14" gun.   A few options I am considering.

 

3.  Most expensive but also most appealing  option is a new Benelli M4 Entry model.  Issues are cost, about $2K and no available forend light systems which I prefer.   Although it is supposed to run just fine on cheap range ammunition and/or reduced recoil tactical loads I have not been able to fully ascertain the veracity of this claim.

Any thoughts or considerations I missed?

x/S

 

Yes, the IWC mount is excellent and places the light at 11 or 1 o clock (your choice) right where a forend mounted system would go. It's just like running a M4 carbine with about a 10" rail or so.

All of mine have run fine with very low power rounds, the last one running fine with 8-pellet Flite Control 00.

This thread is costing me money! Yesterday, I sent my 870 Police Magnum off to Vang Comp!  (Convinced myself it will save me money in the long run on ammo). Plus, I have wanted a Vang Comp gun since the 90's. And, I have Beretta 1301T on back order.

I've never had a shotgun with anything other than a front bead. What is the recommended zero range for irons or RDS?

Sorry if this is too much thread drift.

Depends what you are gonna do with it. If only/mostly buckshot for fighting, I would do 25 yds, and see how the patternp shifts at extended ranges. 

If you want to use it for slugs, then zeroing to 100 yds puts your peak (appx) 2.5" high at 50. That's well within point blank range (aim dead on and generally ignore the offset) to me. 

May require some finagling, and even playing with ammo to find one that works for both. Center of the pellet pattern may not be especially the center of where slugs go. Likewise, cheap practice bird/cost loads may hit fairly off. But: probably only a couple inches again so try it and try not to get too hung up on what are unimportant changes in POI, which can be ready to go when you get a scope or RDS up there.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

CAE5 posted:

This thread is costing me money! Yesterday, I sent my 870 Police Magnum off to Vang Comp!  (Convinced myself it will save me money in the long run on ammo). Plus, I have wanted a Vang Comp gun since the 90's. And, I have Beretta 1301T on back order.

I've never had a shotgun with anything other than a front bead. What is the recommended zero range for irons or RDS?

Sorry if this is too much thread drift.

I zero elevation at 25 yards, and verify windage at 50.

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