Hi - which is the better holster, SERPA or Safariland 6004 in your opinion?

My question is for military medics specifically outside the wire in Afghan.

-------------------------------- Freedom - Isn't Free My only worry about death is that my wife will sell my gear for what I SAID I paid for it..... My greatest worry about life - is that she'll find out what I did pay for it.....

Original Post
It depends. I really dislike the Serpa, but if you're looking to mount it on your chest(not sure if that would be a better option for a medic) the Serpa does have its place. I am still leery of the Serpa after reading about the holster failures that others have had. If you do go with the Serpa LOCTITE YOUR TENSION SCREWS!
That being said, the 6004 is a far superior holster in my opinion, especially if you do the high-ride modification to it.
-Run and Find Out-
From: Upstate NY
why don't you get a G code holster from eagle? Call them up and see if a Hi power will fit. It can be mounted on a PC/Rack and it has a retention screw that can be tightened.
I have a serpa for a 1911 I don't use, and has never really seen any hard use, so I can't comment on it. There are a lot of guys (on LF) that think the serpa is clown shoes.
We're gonna kill these guys. Then we're gonna eat some Goddamn sandwiches.
I have run both- a SERPA on my PC and on a drop rig, and a 6004.

The SERPA is OK. DEFINITELY Loc-tite the screws on it. There were a number of problems with the earlier models, but those have been said to be worked out. I did not experience any of the problems that have been discussed, and I did not have to perform any special maintenance on the rig. The release mechanism is easy to learn, but I was initially worried that pressing on the release might set me up for a ND, but after practicing with it, those concerns turned out to be invalid.

My 6004 APPEARS to be built tougher. It has certainly stood up well in training, and on a short deployment. The release mechanism is natural, and easy to learn.

All things being equal, I prefer the 6004 over the SERPA.

Learning has occurred. Life is good. 

Thanks - I was thinking of a change, but I'll stay with my 6004 then.

-------------------------------- Freedom - Isn't Free My only worry about death is that my wife will sell my gear for what I SAID I paid for it..... My greatest worry about life - is that she'll find out what I did pay for it.....

There are several ways to get from point A to point B with both platforms. In terms of absolute quality and durability, the Safariland holsters (both the SLS and ALS units) are better products. There are lots of ways to set them up, too. If you have a need for a drop leg platform, I find the 6004-DFA platform allows the holster to ride higher on the hip; the key to keeping the holster from swinging around your knee. The SERPA platform can do that, too, but takes up more room with the dual straps to the belt.

Both holsters have QD systems and MOLLE platforms. The SERPA platform is sort of a variation of the Slickstick system BHI uses (and most customers seem to hate). The Safariland can use either the MOLLE Locking System (MLS) or the MLS or QLS attached to a MOLLE Adapter Plate. Where the SERPA has an advantage is that it's a little bit slimmer package; it sits closer to the carrier.

Unless you have a reason to use only a drop leg platform, you may be better served by a drop and offset style platform like the Safariland UBL. That'll be low enough to get the butt of the gun below your armor. The SERPA system has a similar style hanger, but it was designed to be hung on just one belt at a time; the belt loops lock the hanger to the belt by being screwed down and you can't easily just slide the hanger on and off a belt.

There are a lot of options now that didn't exist just a year ago.

Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

I have a beat to hell 6004 that I still use, and will continue to use. The ability to get them with weapon lights, greater variety of models, and I was able to make a custom order through Diamondback Tactical in under two weeks - Safariland absolutely gets my vote. I just got a second, and will be buying my third 6004 next year.
---------------------------- "There is no greater calling that to defend the lives of fellow Marines" -LtCol McClane S/F
With all the failures of life saving equipment I don't know why people even consider a SERPA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...7RsA&feature=related
The guy in this video is no average shooter, if I remember right he doesn't allow SERPAs in his classes anymore.

Regional Field Operations Manager, Team Rubicon R5(MI, OH, IN, IL, WI, MN).

cortney.beard@teamrubiconusa.org

Ottawa County Search and Rescue SARTECH III

 

Given all the documented failures with these holster (one of which I have seen in person) I put them in the same category as ARMS mounts, EOturds, Bushamster/DPMS/Oly Arms, and Tapco.

A pox on blackhawk for continuing to sell this holster.

Lastly, IMO, the 6360 and variants thereof are superior to the 6004/6280.
We carry the SERPA because overwhelming numbers of people want it. Safariland is a better quality product in every respect. It is more expensive, but not much.

Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Barchack:
It depends. I really dislike the Serpa, but if you're looking to mount it on your chest(not sure if that would be a better option for a medic) the Serpa does have its place. QUOTE]

Yes, the Serpa STRIKE does mount nicely on the front of a plate carrier. I have worn it there, but was a little paranoid about what could go wrong if I had to hit the dirt one too many times.
quote:
Originally posted by sff70_98270:
Given all the documented failures with these holster (one of which I have seen in person) I put them in the same category as ARMS mounts, EOturds, Bushamster/DPMS/Oly Arms, and Tapco.

A pox on blackhawk for continuing to sell this holster.

Lastly, IMO, the 6360 and variants thereof are superior to the 6004/6280.


And it is reported that today, a very experienced shooter put on 9x19mm into his thigh while using a serpa- the thought being that while being pushed for speed, that finger that pushes in that release button continued on to negligently make contact with the trigger, causing him pain, loss of blood and probably some embarassment.

No. the holster did not cause the ND, but we have seen this same thing before. It probably contributed to it, and this especially true for those new or unfamiliar with it.

Sff 70- yup- it is right up there with all of those lesser products
Yet, Pat, there will continue to be people on the Intarwebs who doubt that such a thing happened, or that the holsters locked up due to dirt/debris.

"Well, it's never happened to me, so it must be OK."

I can't tell you how many times I've heard that trying to explain the issues...one design, another (mostly) training.

I continue to believe that Mark 13:54-58 is as applicable to the gun industry as anywhere else:

quote:
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

TimW Phoenix "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic'. We should stand up and say, we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration" Hillary Clinton

In my opinion, I'm very, very much a novice shooter. However, for civilians deciding which heavier-duty "range holster" to use, should they see a need, I don't see what the SERPA offers in any way over a Safariland ALS.

If anyone has used an open-topped ALS (I get turned around on the numbers other than my 62[?]85 ) on a plate-carrier, I'd personally be interested to hear about it -just out of sheer curiosity.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
Duke, I tried it on my SOHPC. On the cummerbund, it was too high for me to draw it; on the chest, the MLS system took up too much space right above my mag pouches.

This is why I run a duty/war belt.

This is just my limited experience with the holster on a PC, and I didn't get that experience from combat.

"Rule #1: Use your good judgment in all situations. There will be no additional rules." - Nordstrom's Employee Handbook

quote:
Originally posted by Duke:
In my opinion, I'm very, very much a novice shooter. However, for civilians deciding which heavier-duty "range holster" to use, should they see a need, I don't see what the SERPA offers in any way over a Safariland ALS.

If anyone has used an open-topped ALS (I get turned around on the numbers other than my 62[?]85 ) on a plate-carrier, I'd personally be interested to hear about it -just out of sheer curiosity.


And, for that matter, I'd like to see and hear about ANY successful/efficient chest mounted secondary weapon holster systems. Didn't find much in my search (though I haven't had my coffee yet)...
thank you lightfighter i had a black serpa for my Glock 19 but after reading and looking through the forms i sold it and bought my self a nice 6378 safariland
All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.
George Orwell
I had a SERPA for an M9 that locked up and would not let the pistol out. All the SERPAs I had went the way of the dinosaur.

If you're looking for good deals on 6004's, I've had great luck on Ebay. I've got them for several of my pistols, and haven't paid more than $45 for a used one.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

The Safariland is hands down the better holster. I have used a Serpa in the past and find them to be poorly constructed and have a high potential to fail. If you are on the ground and you get anything in the locking mechanism, it will jam and you will be in a bad way. I have used and abused the Safariland system for years and have had 0 issues. They are worth the few extra dollars, period.

"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense." Sir Winston Churchill

Know directly of a ND. A co worker was holstering his weapon. The lock caught the trigger. On a Glock. Put a 40 through the holster, through the seat on his buddys car and into the ass of his buddys wife. Care to guess? BH SERPA.

 Im not "High Speed", Im "Non-Stick"

Safarliand makes far better holsters than Blackhawk could ever rip off.

I really am a fan of the ALS holsters. The retention is secure, but fast to remove. I have been in several situations where I had to reholster my pistol in a split second and go hands on. If I had the SLS(6004) I wouldn't have been able to do it as fast. With the ALS, when you put the gun in the holster, retention is activated.

I'd be interested in an adapter for the ALS to put it on my plate carrier for testing.

With it or on it. - ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

quote:
Originally posted by bourneshooter:
Safarliand makes far better holsters than Blackhawk could ever rip off.

I'd be interested in an adapter for the ALS to put it on my plate carrier for testing.


The MLS fork and receiver will work. I'd like to try to make the thumb-button release a little more grippy. Eventually I'll try a sliver of grip tape, or stippling the top of the button.

I commit myself to stomping out every instance of the SERPA I see among the ignorant masses. That Youtube video is going to come in handy. Thanks. Now if somebody would kindly shoot themselves using a SERPA in front of a camera, I'd be all set. Big Grin
---------
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food." -- Ron Fucking Swanson
I use a safariland SLS(6004) in the military (when i was active and now in reserves) and can not stand it. granted it is on a drop leg platform and i hate drop legs. I really like the serpa holster and even though it has not been around as long it seems to have more options for mounting. I have a chest platform, paddle platform, and even the dreaded drop leg. I can put serpa holsters for the beretta and glock on any of them. The retention of the serpa is not as good as the safariland but i like it better regardless. all together it boils down to personal preference.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson-

quote:
Sorry for the semi-necropost, but can anyone please post a picture of a Safariland mounted on the chest of a plate carrier or vest? Safariland's website wasn't too helpful.

Thanks much.



6004 bolted to a diamndback tactical molle adaptor.

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

We have several people using the SERPA on our PD and not having issues, BUT that doesn't make it a great holster. I place it one step above the cheap, nylon "gun funnels" that let your gun go at the worst time.

There are many better options out there than the SERPA. Personally, I prefer just about any good quality Kydex or leather holster for off duty use and the Safariland SLS or ALS holsters for duty use. I find the SLS and ALS holsters a little to bulky for CCW.
When the BP switched over from Safariland to SERPAs, I switched personally over to a Blade-Tech WRS. I saw numerous failures of the SERPA (stuck buttons when encountering heavy dirt/dust, and mounting failures, when the holster would be left swinging by a screw or two). I would choose a Safariland all day long.

I never had any encounters with NDs etc. But the overall build was rather poor.
quote:
Originally posted by showalter_m1:
after reviewing the above video i found this one, granted on you tube as well but it is what it is. just the other side of the pic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS4TfxiFp1E&NR=1


You're kidding, right?

Benny Hill music, name, calling, and promo shots do not equal a rebuttal.

SERPAs fail. I've seen it, and guys with a whole lot more juice than me have seen it. Fortunately, the only time I've seen it happen has been in a training environment, but it doesn't change the fact that, under as close to real world conditions as the US Army can produce, it failed.

I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

That rebuttal video is serious clown shoe time.

I've passed on ever trying the SERPA from the bad press, but have buddies who experienced failures with them in theater (after being issued them *after* the bad press was out there). I'm always distressed to see people sporting new SERPAs (AK ARNG just deployed an aviation company where some winner spent unit funds on buying brand new SERPA holsters for every M9 they had).

James

 

****************************************

SOTD 20th SFG(A) 2004-08

 

*Deiwóes ḱḗr méme gwhérsent de méntins méme seh4iént • *Dus-h2eruh2 méme h2ih2ĝéh2é h2eti • *Skóro méme góhauobhi bhéroh2ey • 

As I have noted elsewhere in similar threads, I used to carry the Serpa both on and off duty. I know people involved in the design of the holster. Initially I like the set-up and gave it quite a try, buying both duty and off-duty holsters in this system.

After almost three years of use I gave up on the Serpa.

I could get around the training issues, but the fact that the spring that drives the Serpa lock breaks without warning, giving the holster zero retention (as in less than a regular kydex rig due to the lack of a good friction fit) is a deal breaker for me.

The spring in quesion breaks frequently, it can not be replaced, and it can not be inspected during any PMCS the owner might do on their gear.

There are other issues such as the holster body pulling loose from the belt shank, the paddle attachment breaking regulalry, Serpa lock jamming up due to debris, etc., but the retention spring issue is the most glaring.

______________________________________________________________________

"...because without beer, things do not seem to go as well."

Diary of Brother Epp, Capuchin monastery Munjor, Kansas 1902 ___________________________

если не я тогда, кто?

___________________________

"Suppressive fire is best achieved by ploughing bullets into the dirtbag's skull. That is really suppressive." 'Headhunter' quote from TPI forum.

 

I am the owner of Agile Training and Consulting

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2019
×
×
×
×
×