Shirt and tie knife

Reading the WV Trooper stabbing incident got me thinking (this place will do that). I edc a Skeletool, which has a fairly quick deploying blade, but maybe I need more. I carry it clipped weak side front pocket. Strong side front pocket is usually a G30. I work in the shirt and tie world. What are my options? Boot knife (usually wear Merrills)? IWB? I need discreet, but obviously the more accessible the better. I could relegate the Skeletool to my briefcase and sub something better, but I am constantly using it.

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It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Original Post

Not much personal experience, but check out this thread: http://www.totalprotectioninte...owthread.php?t=18315

The pocket shield can be found here: http://raven-concealment-syste...oader-pocket-shield/

If the thread asks for registration, do it; TPI is Southnarc's (AKA, Craig Douglas, the guy behind ShivWorks and the brains behind the Clinch Pick) own little forum. Lots of good info on there.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。


Joined: 2008-07-16

An artist by name of BAWIDAMANN makes some blades and some sheath adapters called PUPS that allow for mounting anything pretty much anywhere.  Here is a LINK (no direct linking) but remove the RED "XX"s:   http://XXwww.XXbawidamannXX.com/shop/Shenanigans%20%3E%20(PUP)%20Pals%20Universal%20Platforms

I carry an Benchmade OTF Infidel clipped into my belt as a "one handed access & cutting tool" - compliments of the US Army , cause when you need a knife, ya need it in a lickety-split-second.

~Will

 




 

 

   Anybody can blow something up, but to disarm anothers bomb, this is when talent, skill, bravery & LUCK will all determine "Success or Failure".  

 

Location: UTAH              Joined: 2003

I would keep rocking the Skeletool. I have been running one as my primary for several years,and while I may not be a steely eyed knifist, I would feel comfortable cutting my way out of trouble with it.  

"Son, you see this Skeletool that I am cutting your apple with? Last week I used it to tighten the dash panel on the Tahoe. Last year, I used it cut open a FOB-K gang member who was trying to harm me. Always carry a usable knife"

Do you usually wear a sport or suit coat? How big a knife do you want to carry? If the pockets allow it and I need a big knife carried deep, I really like the Al Mar SERE 2000. Since not all pockets are created to actually retrieve stuff from them, I'm also a big fan of the carries-like-a-small-knife-but-really-isn't Benchmade Osborne 940 series.  If you wanna beat up your budget and have a really snazzy carry knife, there's about a million custom knifemakers that do stuff that fits the bill, too, like Crawford, Elishewitz, Kaj Embretsen (absolutely killer damascus stuff, and he's been at it 20 somethin' years) and many others. 

I limit how much my wardrobe determines what I carry. Nobody sees it anyway. 


Those of us who know must save those that don't from those that think they do.

"If you count 'three', mister, you'll never hear the man count 'ten'".-John Wayne as Sean Thornton in The Quiet Man

My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.-Exodus 22:24

A Buck 110 folder, a Benchmade griptillian, and a Kershaw Blur all got me the same question from coworkers:

"Is that legal?"

The Leatherman Charge prompts the question: 

"Can you fix / tighten / cut / open this for me?"

I like that the Leatherman blends in, even when a coat and tie are called for.  The blades open almost as quickly, are the same length, and are camoflaged in a socially acceptable package.

I don't get it, but I try to roll with it.

 

 

For real suit and tie work for me, (weddings and funerals) the Benchmade 530 fits the bill. Very thin, weighs in at 2 oz, big enough to get the job done. What sold me was the review video of the guy batonning wood with it. If I am just dressing up to go to the city, I'm going to a Halloran STX. (The ivory micarta handled one on his site is mine, to not stand out as much if the clothes don't cover. Jackets and shirts just slide over the slim slick handle, but very easy to hold. Works very well in that regard.)

If opened slowly, like a regular pocket knife, the Benchmade doesn't draw that much attention because, I think, it is so thin.  I don't think that I could use the STX for edc purposes without a lot of stares and/or comments. It's pretty obvious that it's a fighting tool. But if you have something that works, why change?

@Default - I requested a login for TPI. Have not gotten an authorization back yet. Thanks for the resource.

@Longeye - I will never give up the Skeletool, I use it every day, and it is a viable defensive tool, just not the end all, if there is such a thing. It's inherent deficiency is that it is not ambidextrous. Opening the blade left handed under duress is problematic.

@Haji - Sport coat rides on the back of my office door most times.

@Haji/Caballoflaco - In a perfect world, a fixed blade about 2/3 scale of a Strider DB, that would ride IWB with just enough exposed so as not to be obvious but still allow enough purchase to deploy rapidly.

I think there was a thread here a while ago about the "talon" style angled fixed blade. IIRC there was one designed specifically for LE.  It seems to me that they would ride IWB while the grip would hide along the belt line.  I have no exposure or training with that style. Are those a viable option? Do they truly either hand? They look gimmicky to me.

ETA: @Default - pocket shield might be an option. I might have to  buy one and T&E it.

ETA again: It's this knife - http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76 not a gimmick I guess.

 

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Going to digress a little from Haji on Al Mar’s (although the SERE is a good choice if you want to carry one)  

A Hawk, Falcon, or Eagle is a great knife, in either the standard or Ultralight form. If you need a clip, you’re limited to the Falcon or Eagle Ultralights. All, but especially the standard versions, make a good “dress” knives  

On the other hand: the ZT0450 in either Ti or the new Carbon Fiber is a good choice. Either of these are light and thin enough that if you’d want to carry without a clip they wouldn’t weigh down the pocket. And look less tactical than ZT’s other offerings, while maintaining the build quality.

I regret selling my ZT0450. I’m planning to replace it, but I’m stuck trying to decide if I should with the Ti one like I sold or a CF one.

If you want to go bigger, its big brother is the ZT0452  

You could also consider a ZT0808. It’s a great knife, but to me it looks too unconventional for the average onlooker to be a gentleman’s folder  

 

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Joined: 5/28/04     Location: DFW TX

 

"We're men, okay? That means a few things; we like to shit with the door open, we talk about pussy, we like to go on riverboat gambling trips, and we make our own beef jerky. That's what we do." Dale, Step Brothers

I've had to wear a shirt and tie a lot more in the last few years and spent a lot of time and money trying to find a solution. the pocket shield and Halloran STX combo works well for me most of the time, but doesn't work in very thin slacks. For that I used an Umnumzaan in the waistband for a long time, recently replaced it with a Spartan Harsey Folder. I also keep a Mnandi in my shirt pocket for smaller stuff. It doesn't seem to scare folks as bad as a bigger folder or fixed blade.

----  I'm hanging out here because I don't know what I don't know and you folk have a way of showing me

I've been looking at the TDI LE, Spartan Enyo and the Strider ED. Any first hand info for this type of use?

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

When I got promoted I had to move to shirt and tie as much, well ashamedly, more than uniform...strong side is a Hinderer XM18. Built like a tank and sharp as a blade should be...pricey but more than worth it, to me, this is the knife you want if it is your only blade and your life depends on it doing everything and more than a blade should..cut, stab, pry, this will do it all...

Weak side is a CRKT Heiho...it is a small(er) blade but is solid, the whole knife is thin in profile, light, and slides deep into the pocket so it isn't noticeable but is easily retrieved and comes scary sharp. Easy to deploy one handed and is big 'enough'. Would not want to pry much with it but that isn't its purpose. This is an assisted opener that is very quickly deployed and has a secondary lock.  About $35 retail. Think of this as essentially an assisted opening razor blade.

Love the larger Hissatsu for uniform work but it is a little bigger and doesn't carry as well in 'dress' pants.

This is timely for me. I am in sort of the same situation. I carry on my person at work but in cargo pockets. I got tired of belt clips that are in my pockets getting stuck on seatbelts. Looking for something that will disappear while wearing a tucked in polo and 5.11's, can't really wear a neck knife for ease of access maybe an IWB thin fixed blade. I'll do some research after reading the reply here. Thanks for starting this thread Malpaso.

---------------------------------- 'My lot in life is to serve, to the best of my ability. To know my life was not a waste, that in the end I can look back from the gates and know I did my best and that it was enough"

The RCS pocket shield that was mentioned really opens up a lot of potential for carrying fixed blade knifes. I use one for carrying one of my Haloran blades if I'm stuck in a shirt/tie (which is rare).

I'm no expert, but as a DT instructor I've pressure tested getting a knife out when tied up with an attacker in training a lot. A fixed blade is the way to go for defensive purposes. A folder can really suck to get out especially if the attacker is bigger/stronger/quicker/more skilled.

 

 

 

Joined: 10/16/10  Location: WA

I carry a crkt obake iwb regularly. Girth hitch sheath to your belt and it draws like a champ I carry it at a severe cant to my belt and it really disappears.  It's thin and easy to deal with even after your 12 hour shift turns into 16.    

I used to roll with the Spartan Enyo and have since moved on to the CRKT Obake. For the price, this is probably the best bang for the buck I've ever seen. The knife itself is slim and easy to hide. When I play dress up I can run it deeply tucked with no issues. 

 

I also carry a very small swiss army knife if I'm going somewhere I might need to do utility stuff. It's better to keep the weapon hidden and work with a non-threatening option. The SAK is far superior to the other knives I've used for this task. No one is threatened by a small SAK. 

Delta1067 I clicked on this thread to propose that exact knife. On my very short list of knives I want but don't need. I have another Chris Reeves designed knife but it is too big, sentimental and irreplaceable to use. The sebenza however is the perfect gentleman's carry knife IMHO. 

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Death seemed my servant on the road, till we were near and saw you waiting; When you smiled, and in sorrowful envy he outran me and took you apart: Into his quietness.

Haji posted:

...I'm also a big fan of the carries-like-a-small-knife-but-really-isn't Benchmade Osborne 940 series. ...

I limit how much my wardrobe determines what I carry. Nobody sees it anyway. 

   For a number of years I carried a carbon fiber  handle 940 when I wore a suit.  The knife is slim and light which made it convenient to carry.  Given the laws in NYC, I removed the pocket clip, which had the benefit of making the setup even slimmer.    As I rarely go without a jacket, carry in the "out change"/"ticket" pocket of jacket pocket offered a fair amount of access even without the convenience of the pocket clip.  For jackets without the "out change"/"ticket" pocket, I often put the 940 in the flat little divided sub-pocket of a main pocket to keep from having to rummage around in whatever else was in the pocket. 
   One thing  I  have noticed -- extended suit-pants-pocket carry of knives with protrusions such as protruding buttons, aggressive  handle texturing, etc., will eventually result in holes being eaten through not only the pocket material, but also the pants material itself -- unfortunately the general rule seems to be the more expensive/finer the suit, the faster appearance of the perforation(s).   YMMV.

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ALL HAIL MCRIB!  

FORZA ZUPPARDI'S TRUCK!  UNA BELLA MACCHINA!

_________________________

Vote Herdsman/ha Hse R in '12 For God, For Country, And For Bacon! Deep Frying...it works, bitches! IYAATTRBWAEYAS!

Joined: 1/30/03 5:48 PM

Haji posted:

Do you usually wear a sport or suit coat? How big a knife do you want to carry? If the pockets allow it and I need a big knife carried deep, I really like the Al Mar SERE 2000. Since not all pockets are created to actually retrieve stuff from them, I'm also a big fan of the carries-like-a-small-knife-but-really-isn't Benchmade Osborne 940 series.  If you wanna beat up your budget and have a really snazzy carry knife, there's about a million custom knifemakers that do stuff that fits the bill, too, like Crawford, Elishewitz, Kaj Embretsen (absolutely killer damascus stuff, and he's been at it 20 somethin' years) and many others. 

I limit how much my wardrobe determines what I carry. Nobody sees it anyway. 

The Benchmade 940 is still my go-to knife after all these years. I have one of the Titanium sided special editions from >10 years ago that is still going strong. It vanishes in the pocket, and doesn't look threatening at all. However, you can tweak the Axis lock so the blade deploys quickly, and it's long enough to get some decent pokey-pokey stabby-stabby on.

My one critique of it is that the aluminum/titanium handles may get a bit slick if your hands are sweaty, bloody, etc. That is balanced by the fact that it won't tear up your suit pants or jacket pockets.

The good idea fairy visited me, and suggested perhaps attempting to mill some further serrations into the aluminum handles...

You mentioned the TDI LE,  I've been thinking about the Ka-bar Hinder/Hinderance but probably wouldn't carry it as I'm more of a slip joint kind of guy.

   I'd  really like to have a Benchmade 940  for edc if I had the funds.  A well designed blade and a lot of it in a small package.

 

I bought one of the Hinderer-Bar pieces  a while back; hated the sheath and gave it to my brother who works uniformed patrol at another agency. I carry a fixed blade at 9 o'clock for a reverse-grip draw; the new TDI sheath has a button made specifially for standard draw, plus it was kinda loose/rattly.

I had a ShivWorks Disciple I carried on the street and then downstairs here in CID, but I broke the damned sheath. I'll be sending it and a box of other blades to Ian at Special Circumstances for new sheaths and sharpening soon. In the meantime,  I replaced it temporarily with a few of the inexpensive CRKT fixed blades (SPIW, etc) and they've worked OK.

OP, your shirt and tie world is probably more restrictive than my Texan one; in less permissive environs I have carried a Cold Steel push knife IWB at 9 o'clock; with my dress shirt just a bit less than tightly tucked in the handle was covered and it was a quick no-brain draw. I also get a lot of mileage out of an Emerson LaGriffe neck knife when I have to dress well. I put a white paracord cover over the neck chain and Krylon'd one of them and it helped to make it less noticeable.

There is the hide-in-plain-sight option; when I lived in Memphis I saw a couple of the Crawford 'Memphis Shears' carried amidst a sea of hippies with no sideways glances. When I was younger I took the handle off a cheap flea-market dagger, used that plastic handle-dip stuff from the hardware store on the tang, and made a nice untactical red handle for it for much the same reason.

Condition Yellow: For a Longer, Happier Life

Just to add  a small post script to this thread, I recentely started carrying a new "shirt & tie" knife -- the Zero Tolerance ZT 0450.  As usual for People's Republic of NYC carry, I have removed the pocket clip, and the knife is smooth (both the frame lock side and the opposite scale are stonewashed finish titanium) the better not to not eat up suit pockets, and is both thin and light.  The knife is basically the same size class as the Benchmade 940, though the 0450's blade is a bit shorter.  What clinched the deal on it as a shirt & tie EDC is , however, its addictive flipper action based around a very smooth KVT bearing system. Can't stop opening the freaking thing.

The Ti scales give this nice a nice s&t look. ZT also offers a black coated blade, carbon fiber scale version for those wanting that look.   For purely aesthetic reasons, I'm not a fan of blade coated blades in an s&t knife, though I really covet the carbon fiber scale, so what would have been ideal for me would have been a plain blade, carbon fiber scale version such as the ZT 0450CFZDP (try repeating that fast a couple times), but alas, those were a limited run.

I also have the 0450's big brother the ZT 0452CF which is remarkably light for its size, again with an addictive flipper action based on a bearing system, but it's a bit large, perhaps, for PR of NYC EDC.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALL HAIL MCRIB!  

FORZA ZUPPARDI'S TRUCK!  UNA BELLA MACCHINA!

_________________________

Vote Herdsman/ha Hse R in '12 For God, For Country, And For Bacon! Deep Frying...it works, bitches! IYAATTRBWAEYAS!

Joined: 1/30/03 5:48 PM

I just love this thread... 
An update -- over the summer I purchased both a ZT 0452G10 (a Zero Tolerance "sprint run" item) and a ZT 0450G10.  The latter fits nicely into the this thread's "Shirt And Tie" knife category -- or would, but for the fact that for me a shirt and tie often means presence at a Federal District Courthouse, which of course means no knife, etc.  As I note supra,  the 0452's size means it is not really suited at least in my mind to carry in NYC.  The 0450 however is a very nice size for carry in a jacket and the G10 iteration feels noticeably lighter than the all Ti iteration I comment on above. Also, the G10 has a nice texture -- a real plus when opening that banker's box of docs, hands sweaty from anticipation of all that discovery-related goodness...   The flipper action is even smoother than the plain 0450 I already have and the non-coated blade an black G10 slab look pretty "shirt and tie" as well.   And the clincher -- it's $20 less (list price) than the all Ti.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALL HAIL MCRIB!  

FORZA ZUPPARDI'S TRUCK!  UNA BELLA MACCHINA!

_________________________

Vote Herdsman/ha Hse R in '12 For God, For Country, And For Bacon! Deep Frying...it works, bitches! IYAATTRBWAEYAS!

Joined: 1/30/03 5:48 PM

In a suit and tie, or other occasions where I needed a discreet knife, I carried a Benchmade Mel Pardue Auto with the pocket clip removed. I carried it in my strong side  trouser pocket. Never had any issues with it, other than having to clean it routinely to get out the lint/dust out of it.

if you want a man to keep his head when the crisis comes you must give him some training before it comes. - Seneca

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