Tangodown's new Polymer magazine for M16 compatible rifles.

Tangodown brouhgt a pretty interesting item to Shotshoaw. this new polymer magazine designed a few years back but brought back to life with a solid gov't requirement for a polymer magazine for a upcomig weapon system.....


Magazine interface with receiver


Modular mag design


rubber o-ring seal for the mag, it will prevent any sand or dirt from getting into the action of the weapon from bottom up. it will help with those that submerge their weapon under water....


it has no floor plate, completely encased to fight the enviroment




Anti tilt follow with a redeisng spring, since this is still in deisgn phase, i did not photo the follower or the spring.


top down, feed lips and contoured magazine interior to interface with the follower. the spring is entirely encased inside the molded well, it will be like traveling on rail for the pring as it is cmpressed up and down the length of the magazine.


Magazine is modular, so the same magazine can be made to become a 30, 20, 10 or 5 rds mag.

The top and bottm section use a very high tech Dupont adhesive to form a solid bond. it is stronger then metal welding.

Chen Fly Low, And Avoid The Radar
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by borebrush:
If I shine a flashlight on it, will it glow in the dark?


that is funny.....

This is a rapid prototype in ipts original state. future production model would be in same color code as those priducts already in Tangodwon's catalog.

Dark Earth, ranger green and black.
Chen Fly Low, And Avoid The Radar
quote:
Magazine is modular, so the same magazine can be made to become a 30, 20, 10 or 5 rds mag.

The top and bottm section use a very high tech Dupont adhesive to form a solid bond. it is stronger then metal welding.


Chen,
Does this mean that those mags will be dirtcheap, because going by what you say, there's no way I can repair them without breaking them if they're malfunctioning, e.g. worn spring etc.
Looking at these based solely on wording in the post, and the seeming intent of design; it would appear these fulfill a desired roll/niche for a certain type of 'job', specialized, I mean. Not necessarily to fill up an entire loadout, day to day.

Am I in the ballpark on that?
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"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
Negative Duke, this is for a standard magazine,
The military is extremely dissatisfied with a certain high cost mag that while highly touted by many when it first appeared 8 years ago, is showing a failure rate that is off the charts.

There is a good possibility that there will be no sole sourcing of magazines, and all new military magazines will be polymer.
quote:
it would appear these fulfill a desired roll/niche for a certain type of 'job', specialized

That was my first thought at seeing these as well. Glad we have an Irishman round here to set us straight. Wink

Joined: 11/08/03          Location:  Central Indiana

so when they fill with water, where does it go? when i wear out the springs, i guess i just toss it in the trash? like it's been said before, i hope these things are cheap.

until proven otherwise, magpul gets my mag money.

---------------------------------- "Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated mine on three continents."- some Marine Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. You were sayin' something about "best intentions"

And waiting until proven is always a good thing.
TangDown's testing is to be done by outside sources.

Remember that this magazine is in response to a request, and the priority will clearly be for the requestor.

The uber mag doesn't have springs available either, but they managed to acquire a cult following, even after issues.

It will be a while in any event.
Jeff indicated that there will be a maritime version with a drain plug thingie on it. However, part of the whole point of the sealed design is that it will not get water in it in the first place short of a full submersion of the weapon.
Yeah, when the spring fails you shitcan it. I don't wanna say what Jeff quoted on price, but it is cheap.
I cannot imagine replacing a worn mag spring these days. A decent spring is 30-40% the cost of a new mag. By that time there are other issues that would warrant a whole mag replacement. Even in standard aluminum mag body itself usually shit the bed before the standard spring.
It has been said before by much smarter folks than me, but mags are disposable. The issue here is not one of repair, but rather the service life before it gets the hammer treatment. As of yet, we don't know what that service life (round count) is. Jeff's and TD's track record is pretty solid and I would think would at least warrant a serious look at these when they are released.

Best regards, Brady www.monkeyedge.com But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco. Nothing! - Tuco

From my limited experience of getting my ass kicked in the surf zone, water was not the problem, it was sand.

Most of it entered the weapon through the upper/lower reciever junction.

Seems like (even with this mag) you will still have to riggers tape your weapon up to keep it functional once the arse has hit the BLS.

Pat, you were a Recon bubba,what are your thoughts?

Oh yeah,
i guarantee i could break one in 3 seconds,high speed "Stronger than steel" dupont adhesive or not.

"Stay angry my friends"-the most dangerous man in the world.

 

"All hat, not much cowboy" Big Sky Brewing Co.

 

" I am Godzilla, YOU are Japan" -Critical Bill

The spring is not standard GI type either.
The technical term escapes my rattled brain right now but it's the wire wound type.

with the poly body & self lubricating follower I can hope that the resistance to sand fouling would be pretty high.
He saw my puzzled look & grinned @ my comment about nothing a 1/4" drill bit couldn't fix before he mentioned the upcoming maritime version.
The proposed price point is f'n outstanding as long as the poly body can take the abuse anything like other poly mags can. AL mags hate being plate slammed by big fellas up against walls or hard surfaces & that's my only real problem with GI's & a Magpull follower.

I'm anticipating rolling to COHORT with his lever mounted Irish grip & a battle load of these to test out.
Be kind brother Pat. I still haven't cleaned the 416 Cool

Εἷς οἰωνὸς ἄριστος, ἀμύνεσθαι περὶ πάτρης When i am War Czar, we first eliminate the word Marksmanship.... Pat F'n Rogers

quote:
Originally posted by smellofvictory:
so when they fill with water, where does it go?


Out the same giant opening that the bullets come out of?

quote:
when i wear out the springs, i guess i just toss it in the trash?


Yes. Replacement cost for these mags are going to be equivalent or only slightly more than that of high end replacement springs.

quote:
like it's been said before, i hope these things are cheap.

until proven otherwise, magpul gets my mag money.


Please keep in mind that the PMAG has been on the market in it's current form for much less than a year. What exactly do you consider proven? USGI mags have had several issues for 40 years now, but the government still issues them. If something works, it works.

That being said, I absolutely agree with you. I look forward to beating the shit out of these mags and seeing how they perform.

Stephen
The magazine should be on a low cost side. so if you sopend money to upgrade your mags, you might as well invest in a new Tangodow mag.... of course if it is proven to be a reliable and solid product.

the spring is based a double wire setup kind of like the AK trigger spring.

the spring will sit inside the molded sping well...sort of speak, that is formed inside the mag. so the spring/follower will travel up and down the body of the magazine with any tiliting effect.

Although this is a rapid prototype model, this is also a shootable example.

and yes, being a sealed unit, if this puppy goes TU, you toss it.

Chen
Chen Fly Low, And Avoid The Radar
From the viewpoint of a consumer in the civilian market, I think these mags are kind of a stupid idea. While mags should be seen as an expendable item, in a world where the future of our hobby is uncertain at best due to legislation, the ability to repair mags that may become "grandfathered" at some point is pretty important. For instance, I'm currently located in new york. if all of our current USGI mags were permanently welded together at the factory with no way to replace springs or followers, all of the preban mags available would sooner or later have to be DX'd as the springs and followers wear out.

While there is certainly somethign to be said about unibody construction in mags for durability and not having to worry about additional parts that can fail, I certainly wont be buying mags that I cannot diagnose or repair down the road.

As for the maritime uses of these mags, while I am by no means HSLD swimmin ur beaches killin ur doods, I've lived worked and grown up a stones throw from the ocean, and have spent my fare share of time in and around it. Trying to keep the ocean out of a mechanical device that may become submerged is a losing battle. In my experience, devices that are open and allow water and sand to rapidly flow through and out of a device tend to stay cleaner. Once you do get sand into soething that doesn't self-drain, it often binds up permanently when the sand gets left behind without the water.
quote:
Originally posted by LaVista:
From the viewpoint of a consumer in the civilian market, I think these mags are kind of a stupid idea. While mags should be seen as an expendable item, in a world where the future of our hobby is uncertain at best due to legislation, the ability to repair mags that may become "grandfathered" at some point is pretty important. For instance, I'm currently located in new york. if all of our current USGI mags were permanently welded together at the factory with no way to replace springs or followers, all of the preban mags available would sooner or later have to be DX'd as the springs and followers wear out.

While there is certainly somethign to be said about unibody construction in mags for durability and not having to worry about additional parts that can fail, I certainly wont be buying mags that I cannot diagnose or repair down the road.

As for the maritime uses of these mags, while I am by no means HSLD swimmin ur beaches killin ur doods, I've lived worked and grown up a stones throw from the ocean, and have spent my fare share of time in and around it. Trying to keep the ocean out of a mechanical device that may become submerged is a losing battle. In my experience, devices that are open and allow water and sand to rapidly flow through and out of a device tend to stay cleaner. Once you do get sand into soething that doesn't self-drain, it often binds up permanently when the sand gets left behind without the water.


Designing firearms and firearm accessories around political idiosyncrasies is a terrible idea at best. Ruger does this and as a result I will never own another Ruger product and have sold off the ones I did have.

It's plastic. If you need it to drain drill a hole in the bottom. We're fighting in the desert right now...

Stephen
quote:
rubber o-ring seal for the mag, it will prevent any sand or dirt from getting into the action of the weapon from bottom up. it will help with those that submerge their weapon under water....


That's not going to last long...

-Brando --------------------- Science is like a good friend: sometimes it tells you things you don't want to hear. It tells you the truth. And we all know how much that can hurt, don't we, fatso? Faith, Science and Evolution in a Nutshell

quote:
Originally posted by Brando:
quote:
rubber o-ring seal for the mag, it will prevent any sand or dirt from getting into the action of the weapon from bottom up. it will help with those that submerge their weapon under water....


That's not going to last long...


I give up. I've never seen so many experts on a product that hasn't even hit the market yet.

Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by LaVista:
From the viewpoint of a consumer in the civilian market, I think these mags are kind of a stupid idea. While mags should be seen as an expendable item, in a world where the future of our hobby is uncertain at best due to legislation, the ability to repair mags that may become "grandfathered" at some point is pretty important. For instance, I'm currently located in new york. if all of our current USGI mags were permanently welded together at the factory with no way to replace springs or followers, all of the preban mags available would sooner or later have to be DX'd as the springs and followers wear out.

While there is certainly somethign to be said about unibody construction in mags for durability and not having to worry about additional parts that can fail, I certainly wont be buying mags that I cannot diagnose or repair down the road.

As for the maritime uses of these mags, while I am by no means HSLD swimmin ur beaches killin ur doods, I've lived worked and grown up a stones throw from the ocean, and have spent my fare share of time in and around it. Trying to keep the ocean out of a mechanical device that may become submerged is a losing battle. In my experience, devices that are open and allow water and sand to rapidly flow through and out of a device tend to stay cleaner. Once you do get sand into soething that doesn't self-drain, it often binds up permanently when the sand gets left behind without the water.


#1
what good would it do for you in locked states if TD was to design a modular mag that could be repaired/upgraded.
Oh yeah, nothing.
Explanate the business sense in your argument again please?

#2
Dig deep in your bag & tell me the plus of another mag in your beach theory.


Openings in mags that allow water to drain out also allow grit in.
There isn't a magic answer for a mag fed weapon in that environment until the plasma rifle hits the troops.

Read a little into Pat's post. I'll help translate. Poly mags are where things are headed. TD is pursuing that market. They don't really have a ton to gain by chasing a civ market where a consumer buys 5 mags that last him 10-20 years.

Εἷς οἰωνὸς ἄριστος, ἀμύνεσθαι περὶ πάτρης When i am War Czar, we first eliminate the word Marksmanship.... Pat F'n Rogers

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I give up. I've never seen so many experts on a product that hasn't even hit the market yet.

Stephen


Welcome to my world, Bro!

I've known about this (TangoDown ARC mag.) for several years now, and am excited to see it finally being brought to fruition.

"Vulgarity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker." -HT "Any bridge worth building now is probably worth burning later" - Me

I for one am curious to try them out. SInce mine will be used for more than looks and an occasional trip to the range, they sound like they could have some plusses and minuses.

While I think about it, I have had several crappy experiences with two of my four PMags, but the company stands behind their product and I have not given up on them yet. I have also had troubles with bushmasters. That being said, these sound different, an if they work and are cheap enough, then why study the hell out of them?

__________________________

"Have a vision not clouded by fear." A Cherokee proverb "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." Socrates

 

Joined: 2005                                Location: Georgia

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments on our upcoming product.
Here's some of our thoughts when viewing the pix of the SLA models above

Our design goal when we initially began this project about 3 years ago was to produce a polymer mag that had enhanced reliability, modularity for different ammunition capacities and competitive per-unit cost for the SCAR program.

We will be initially producing 2 calibers, 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm for both FN SCAR light and heavy weapons.

For enhanced reliability, we chose sealing the mag from the environment as much as possible, deleting the floorplate. A by-product of that
was tremendous strength exhibited by the 5 sided box construction in FEA studies. Cleaning the magazine is easy, requiring no disassembly. Compressed air or water jet through the slots in the follower while the magazine is upside down will remove any debris. We do have a Maritime version that has a one way drain valve for OTB operations.

The two-piece housing assembly allows us to use optimum ammunition 'stack' in the design. We can tightly control the molding process at the same time, as we are making 2 small shots instead of one long one. Material freeze off is no longer an issue. The industrial adhesive we use to join the 2 halves exceeds the strength of the base material. Additional benefit is that we can mold the entire lower half of the magazine in a transparent/translucent material for ammunition viewing, keeping the superior strength reinforced material up top for the feedlips, etc.

The 'gasket' between magwell and magazine is actually a soft durometer silicone seal that is bonded to the magazine. It can't shift or migrate on the magazine body. We used a foam seal at the Show for demonstration purposes. A specific type of magazine carrier design is underway, to answer that question. It will be trick.

In all the studies we researched, the primary mechanical cause of magazine failure to feed was due to feedlip issues. Springs and followers were down the list. By using a high quality coated spring, our sealed design would need to be replaced only when the lips were worn out and/ or damaged.

The follower is pretty novel, and is driven differently than existing baseline G.I.-type followers

The comprehensive testing and documentation will be done by DoD, and we will not release this product commercially or otherwise until it is ready to go. We are seeking the next level of small arm magazine performance.

Hope this information helps. I'll post additional progress in the near future.

Best-

Jeff
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:

I give up. I've never seen so many experts on a product that hasn't even hit the market yet.

Stephen


If they're going to be that inexpensive, there is no reason we can't simply try them out and see... I for one am curious as to whether I could break one; I'm pretty good at breaking things.
Lets see. Magpul, a company that I think most all will concede does their homework and makes a good product, has come out with a polymer magazine that by all accounts, works pretty damn good and much better than the aluminum GI mag.

Tangodown, another company with a reputation for quality engineering and a quality product, is also coming out with a polymer mag. To their credit, they are thinking outside the box (pun intended) and putting the things together a bit differently. I hope it works out. Based on their past history, I expect it will. Competition always helps the consumer, and it drives the competitors to become innovative and raise the bar. I don't see a downside here. I didn't get a chance to look at the TD mag at SHOT (bad on me), but it sounds good.

I have to agree with DZ and Stephen regarding the market. The military, ours and our allies, are the market. And in that market, magazines ARE expendable items. Make them super reliable and cheap enough to buy lots of them.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

This is starting to sound cliche`, but thanks for the education and info, gentlemen. For some reason, I saw that mother's-milk colored polymer, and it just looked expensive. If these are lo-cos (read; competitive), and keep out yuck, wow, then sign me up.

*You know, PMags come with those snap-on lids, maybe these could come with a replacement O-ring? Just a wild thought.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
Yeah, they suck .

Guy tries to bring a revolutionary product to market and everybody shits on him before we even get to test and shoot it.

I love the whole, "I live near the beach," thing. So do I, BFD.

I will try some. Keep up the good work.
I am really interested in seeing these in action.

Slotted to jungle clip together (if anyone does this still)
Gripping (either finger groves or make them checkered)
Etc

I'm probably out of my lane so.......swerving back now
______________________________
Luke Frown
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______________________________ <-----Luke's lane

---------------------------------- 'My lot in life is to serve, to the best of my ability. To know my life was not a waste, that in the end I can look back from the gates and know I did my best and that it was enough"

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