I have been able to shoot a fair number of rounds through the following true pistol caliber SMG's:

M1928 & M1A1 Thompson






MP5 in various configurations


The M1928's were beautiful works of art, the MP5's were the most practical and the ones I've used the most, the MAC-10 was the worst of the bunch. 

Forgot that I ran a few mags through an FN P90. 

Trigger was... different, and I had all manner of fun pretending to be on Stargate SG1 shooting at system lords & Goua’uld. 

It ran flawlessly, barely recoiled, and was most likely more accurate than I was able to shoot it.

Of course, realizing I was shooting a glorified .22 magnum brought me back to a sobering reality.

Endeavor to be emulable, not suck, persevere, and, imbue ostrobogulousness. 

The MP5 10 was our our go to gun for a long time. It was amazingly easy to shoot accurately at short distances even though we just had iron sights. Super easy to carry and maneuver in and around vehicles.  Ours were single (obviously) and two-round burst. It was the only weapon at the range that I could hear two distinct noises when fired; one from the report and then the noise as a round punched through the cardboard target.

Why "zombies"? Because calling it "training to stop a rioting, starving, panicking, desperate mob after a complete governmental financial collapse apocalypse" is just too wordy."

Apparently, I fired a Thompson. This was a day of MGs and other stuff, so it was certainly full auto if anyone brought it out, but... I have no recollection. It apparently made no impression on me whatsoever. 


The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt


Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas


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I carry an MP-5N for work and am an agency armorer.  We have to meet the HK qual course and standards each quarter.  Qual course is laughably easy (I swear the gun fires guided 9mm rounds at 50 yards). The standards drill is what is hard e.g. 10 yard steel, full auto on selector, three rounds to the body and 1 to the head.  Once you get the trigger control down it is doable. Standards drills are a pass/fail thing.

Armorer - blargh. The Navy trigger group is insanely complicated.  I have never stayed around for day 3 of the armorer course, but apparently the burst trigger is insane squared. I find parts a lot more spendy than, say, the ubiquitous AR platform.   Most of the problems involve the roller holders (you can actually run the gun without them if you hold the roller in while sliding the bolt in) and extractor springs. I keep an extra bolt on hand and send it to outlying offices when I need to change their extractor springs.  Apparently we will be maintaining both the MP-5Ns and our AR piston guns for the near to mid term.

If it were up to me, the MP-5Ns would be retired even though our new ARs are semi only.


In yon strait path a thousand
May well be stopped by three.
Now who will stand on either hand,

And keep the bridge with me?


Agree with the OP's great idea of sort of an oral history approach.  My first SF deployment we hauled along the team box of foreign weapons to train the Danish Home Guard.  Silly us.  Sub guns were much in use there, still.  First guy who met our ADVON had a Swedish K slung over his shoulder.

One of my counterparts in the Jaegers had (among several weapons in his wall locker; big boy rules) a suppressed Soumi.  I have to take a minute,.  That was a firearm.  For their across the beach missions, the Soumi was preferred.  Sten guns were still around from SOE/OSS drops in the last big war in the hands of individual guardsmen.

I had to second a radio operator to another team.  When he came back before we redeployed, he said he'd traded a Home Guard guy for a souvenir, could he keep it?  Not.  I made his dump his ruck and the parts of a Sten gun (unsuppressed).  I did the paperwork for "Found on Post" and we put in the foreign weapons team box.

We had several Uzis, an MP5, a PPsh, a Swedish K. and a suppressed Sten (with a shot out barrel) to train folks on.


Chris Ives posted:

...a suppressed Soumi...


So, Suomi just means "Finland" so which SMG? I am betting this one: 

The KP / KP31 / KP-31 / M-31 / etc. of WW2 vintage . But I have seen other guns called just "The Suomi" as that's the main thing engraved on the top of the gun. 

Also... I have barely heard of and super not seen the suppressed version. Super interesting. 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt


Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas


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The guns we worked with in 1982 were just that, working guns.   Provenance (other than the one I FOP'd) was just not a concern.  My Danish counterpart wanted his to work as soon as the water drained out of the muzzle and couldn't have cared less it got on to his hand receipt.

I do recall the weight of "the Soumi" made it seem like a .22 shooting it.  Sten guns are Sten guns though suppressing seems to always make shooting them easier.  That said, I don't think I've shot one that didn't have a shot-out or almost so barrel.

Counterintuitively I shot an Uzi best of all; MP5 not nearly as well, though not nearly as much either.  Phase II (way back in the day; early 1980s) of the Q course featured all sorts of SMGs with the proviso we'd rarely see them in the US and overseas as PDWs; Madsens, Walthers, etc.  Hard to tell much from a magazine in a fam' fire.

We thirsted then for suppressed weapons of any sort due to then-mission profiles.  But we had no resources then (white side SOF) for such things.  My field craft instructor in the Q course swore by the M3 with a suppressor.   Between whatever cans they had in V/N and .45 ameliorated any thump the M3 normally provided. 


If it counts, my primary experience was with the semi-automatic Colt 9mm carbine.  We purchased two or three of these at around the same time we transitioned from revolvers to pistols.  Because only supervisors could be trusted with this devastating firepower, only sergeants and shift OIC's were trained with the Colts.  As we all know, first line supervisors are selected for their marksmanship and tactical acumen.  In fact there was such concern that officers would play with the weapons, we were told to keep a gun lock on the carbines when storing them in the shotgun locker.

As I recall, the Colts had a carry sling and two magazines apiece.  There were no lights or optics.  I don't recall any accuracy or reliability problems.  A couple of officers did purchase their own weapons.  In fairness, I should have given the Colts more respect, but the lead firearms instructors at the time were basically teaching us how to fight the Soviet Army if it burst through the Fulda Gap into Maryland.

I invariably carried a shotgun rather than a Colt as I was more experienced with the slide gun and could carry it racked above my head rather than thrown in the trunk.  On Day 2 of the Beltway sniper case, we had multiple shootings around the city.   I was at the range with an in-service class when we were directed to gear up and hit the streets.  A couple hours later I was ordered to meet another unit detailed to a school.  When I arrived, the officer handed me a Colt and told me I was supposed to give him my shotgun.   Since he wasn't a supervisor, he wasn't authorized to carry the AR-15 (though as an Army veteran, he had more experience with the platform than me).

Given the distances of the shootings, the trade-off may have been in my favor.  That said, I didn't think so as I pulled up first behind one of the many white box trucks we were checking.  After the ordered the little old man and woman drivers from the truck, I moved up to clear the passenger compartment.   Sixteen years later I vividly remember pieing the cabin thinking "If that douchebag is waiting in here, I really would rather have my shotgun than this thing."  Good times.

The 9mm AR-15's were soon gone.  Botach International  shipped us replacement Colt rifles on our verbal promise to send them the pistol-caliber weapons.  


I have some time on the MP5.  I had an Uzi for a brief time.  It didn't work right but that's a long story not suitable for a public forum for...reasons.  I did own an M11/9 and spent a bunch of time with it.  With the standard upper it was only useful for a gunfight in a car.  I bought a sidecocking upper for it from MPA because the original cocking "handle" (more like two quarters stacked on top of each other) was dumb.  I put a "Mac Jack" buffer in it just for shits and grins.  I think it was running about 1,400 rpm.  I also bought a Lage Max-11 upper with the mid-speed bolt.  It ran at about 750 rpm.  Now, the trigger was still horrible, and the controls were stupid, but I could do singles, doubles, triples, whatever.  That particular rate of fire was perfect for me.  The MP5 always felt like it was a little slow and had a sort of rocking motion to the gun.  But I could run the shit out of that Lage.  Ended up having to sell it when my car blew up.  It was an easy $4,500 check (lost about $500 on the whole package).  Now I see he's got 5.56 uppers for them.  FML, shoulda just had a higher car payment...

The MP5 was the best, the Lage second, and that particular Uzi last, since full auto wasn't reliable.  That's a story for the Hogpocaplypse I guess.

Joined: 10/1/09                       Location: Columbia, SC

Someone brought an MP-5 (safe, semi, 2-shot, auto trigger pack) to my range today. There is a two-mag range tax on cool guns I want to shoot for nostalgia’s sake. I should have charged him double, but was already happy with what I got. 

They’re just damn cool guns. Had the collapsible stock - which is the only John McClain approved stock. I wish I didn’t have to be responsible with taxpayer money, or.had an actual use for one. 


It's easy to make assumptions about puppies strapped to missiles, but good science requires research.


Joined: 12-2005          Location: Central OK

There's a couple guys that I work...around....who carry MP5SDs.  I carried a MP5 back in the day when I thought I was all high-speed and all and went to a subgun instructor course with it, and given what we do now I'll keep my 5.56 SBR.  But they are a whole lot cooler than me, so, what do I know.  

I'd love to have one again as a range toy, but I'm way too poor for that.  Lots of fun, though.  


Joined 08/26/03   Location:  Southern Oklahoma

So today at the IDPA Pistol Caliber Carbine day, one of the folks who brought stuff out we don't normally see was the Chief of [a local agency] that still has .40 UMPs in the arms room. He hates them, but it's all he's got so he brought it. And... let some of us shoot it. So, now I have a mag of shooting and moving with a UMP! 

ETA, photo: 


Chief Steve hates it. HAAATES it. Big, heavy, horrid recoil. On shooting it, and then immediately shooting my "Colt" carbine, tend to agree with at least the recoil. It kicks far more than it has any right to. Not sure why. He says: giant bolt. 

Otherwise, a fine successor to the MP5. Trigger group seems identical, charging handle is so similar that I thought it was the same, but the distance is a bit different so I missed going to slap it down the first time. Mag latch is different but similar enough as well you make do, etc. 

I had the same experience with the HK trigger group I always do, which is fine. I have, even with my deformed thumb, no issue using the fire selector. Everyone else complained like always, did stuff like put their thumb on the other side to run it, etc. Trigger itself was fine, smooth, adequate weight. 

I did of course slip once and purely accidentally knocked the selector from semi to full for one target. You aren't allowed to go full auto for IDPA. "Whoops." But, not much less controllable than a full auto AR (5.56 - never done a full auto 9mm), trigger helps a lot with that, so easy to press-release and get three nicely grouped shots. With any practice, I am sure I could do two. Though, it also had a 2-shot burst setting, so if mine personally, I likely would just leave it there all the time. 

LOP is a bit long, and the stock is too rigid, sorta made my cheek tired by the end of my very short run. I might be happier with an RDS (it was irons only) to get my head higher, else it's getting covered in sticky neoprene sheet like my FAL Para, again: if I owned one. Or, I bet B+T makes an awesome aftermarket stock as that is their way. 

Mags are HUGE. Couldn't even sorta stick in any pouch I own, ended up in my back pocket. And a bit hard to handle generally. Translucent is damned nice, but too smooth. Like an AUG or SIG without the reinforcing grooves. Some modern translucents, maybe Turkish HK33 and... (New) Skorpion mags (?) have tiny raised bits that give more purchase, help a lot. Fat floorplates are also weird, stupid to me. Wonder if you could stretch a 9mm old-school magpul onto one?

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt


Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas


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