The Bro Gun

I concur, GNX. I don't see myself handing out guns to people in the neighborhood and training them for the domestic catastrophe equivalent of FID. My military and LE friends who, for one reason or another, have lost access to theirs? Of course. I have a long time friend, the guy I trusted to take care of my wife and kids while I was deployed, he can fix anything, but he is not a gun guy. He has no interest in owning one, and he does not perceive a need for one himself. But if things went sideways I would not hesitate to hand one to him and tell him, in 30 seconds or less, how it works.

------------

"One of the nice things about being around other soldiers is they will suffer your bullshit gladly, knowing sooner or later you will shut up and listen to theirs." - Jim Morris, War Story

 

"The military was strange like that. In the middle of the night you run into a major problem that requires you to put your faith in someone you never met before and probably would never see again. But that person knocks himself out to do his job and helps you get on with yours." - Harold W. Coyle, Team Yankee

I can't recall who the manufacturer was but I got an e-mail over the weekend that had M4 type carbines for $399. It wasn't PSA but I'm brain farting on who it was. 

No free blow job with it but $399, damn. Even if it only works for several mags worth, in a tough spot I wouldn't hesitate to hand them out if I had them and the need was there. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

If you're wondering how and why some of those prices are so low, this is the answer in many of the cases.  First off, don't slam the manufacturers for believing that Hillary was going to win the election and that there would be a continued or even accelerated demand.  All the pundits said she was going to win.  So they ramped up production, especially of guns that were high on her ban desires.  When that didn't happen and the demand dropped, they've got a lot of excess inventory.

Second reason.  A lot of manufacturers have incentives to dealers and distributors.  Buy x number of guns and we'll give you 1 free.  So for some dealers/distributors, who have a bunch of guns on the shelf, they can amortize those free guns in with the ones they paid for and offer a killer deal while still making some money.  And before anyone slams a business for making money, if they don't, they won't be a business for very long.  In most cases, nobody is trying to shaft the consumer, because they are in competition with the next guy.

So when you see these deals, take advantage of them while you can.  At this time, the supply vs. demand equation is on the side of the buy.  Supply is high, demand has dropped.  When inventory becomes balanced, prices will go up again.  And if you can, throw some of that business to your local stores.  It isn't hard to find a good deal online, but that's because they don't have the brick and mortar costs of an actual store where you can go in and fondle the gun before you decide whether you are going to buy it or not.  If you want to actually handle it in person, not just a review or photo online, keep those local stores in business.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

GNX, JW that was the intent of this thread.  Not arming random guy off the street, but people you already know are trained to at least a reasonable level of competency, and you know personally you can trust. 

If my uncle happens to be visiting and disaster hits... he probably won't have a gun on him (no chl), and his .mil time was when LBJ was in office. But he hunted for years and shot PPC competitively. A .38 and a bolt action would do him fine,  an AR would not. Compared to another LFer more up to speed who happens to be over... sure, hand out the spare AR, AK etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

For this sort of scenario, and the untrained watch keeper, I could go with Cooper's theory on a single barrel break gun, or diverge 180 and hand off a light AR with an inserted 40 round Magpul mag. The fight will be over before the 40 rounds run out, so no real need to teach reloads and bolt manipulation.

Show the watchkeeper the safety, "Push this down, put this dot on the chest of the badguy, pull this, repeat as needed- I will hear the shooting and come running to help- Got it? Questions?"

For me to loan a bro a gun, he will first have to demonstrate a need for one. And his "need" better not be "Uh I never thought I'd need one" or "I never got around to buying one". 

Maybe it's only me, but those who don't take the personal steps to protect themselves also don't offer much to me in terms of disaster protection or recovery. I *guess* I'll take in the nurse down the street who never owned a gun, but... I'm not giving her one. Because she never owned one. 

Your house collapsed on top of your gun safe? You can't safely return to your neighborhood or house for whatever reason? Burned? Your guns got flooded out? Stolen?  Here, I've got a few, you pick the one you like best. 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

Longeye posted:

 

Show the watchkeeper the safety, "Push this down, put this dot on the chest of the badguy, pull this, repeat as needed- I will hear the shooting and come running to help- Got it? Questions?"

"Do you . . . Could I borrow a gun or something?" she asked, trying to figure out the connections on the body armor.
"What would you do with it?" he asked, disgustedly, grabbing the Velcro and efficiently connecting first one underarm strap then the other.
"Try?"
"You should have tried years ago," he answered. He reached back into the duffel and brought out a short black pistol in a shoulder holster.

"You ever use one of these things before?" he asked rhetorically, dropping out the magazine and yanking back the slide to eject the round up the spout. He caught the 9mm round in the air like a trout after a fly.
"No," she answered, intimidated by his suddenly revealed expertise.
"Okay." He lifted up the magazine. "This is the gas, you fuel it like this." He slid the magazine back into the well. "It's fueled when you hear the click. You start it like this." He jacked back the slide. "And," he said, laying one finger lightly on the trigger as he pointed the weapon skyward and across the river, "this is the accelerator. You drive it by looking through the rear sights while focusing on the front sights. Place the white dot on the front sight across the V of the rear sights and pull on the accelerator real slow. There, the Tom Sunday School of Glock Driving."
She accepted the weapon gingerly as he ensured she had it pointed up and downrange.
"So where is Park?" she asked dryly.

This hits home with me....

i grew up in a neighborhood where all of us friends  were like brothers. In fact, when most of us became of age and bought firearms, we often sold and traded among each other with out doing the dros/transfer. I went to Sequioa in August and my childhood buddy offered to loan me his 357 s&w revolver. 

i would do the bro gun thing for select friends that's for sure. The mossberg Maverick for under 200 bucks comes to mind....if cost and money is thight

I'm also with lobster if someone dragged there feet n purpose not to prepare and cried Argentina I would have to give that some thought. Almost all of my good friends are gun guys and are prepared pretty well. 

Sadly, the neighborhood I currently live in is nice but not real brotherly...so....there is that for another post

Had to twice before, for "gun people" who got married to anti gun wives.  All of the sudden when their lives are in legit danger a firearm doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

 


 "We have no scars to show for happiness.

We learn so little from peace."

My choice for a "loaner" gun was a Mossberg 12 ga. shotgun with a long vent rib barrel and a short 18.5" barrel. Most people can be quickly trained on it, and it can be used for hunting as well as self defense.

 

As far as "cheap" AR's, I think that if you're depending on a Bro to cover a field of fire, a cheap gun going down at the worst time would be really bad. The idea mentioned above of sticking in a quality BCG from BCM, or another top tier manufacturer, is a good one.

 

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“The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute – get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.”

- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Joined: 4/22/09          Location: WI

Longeye posted:

Show the watchkeeper the safety, "Push this down, put this dot on the chest of the badguy, pull this, repeat as needed- I will hear the shooting and come running to help- Got it? Questions?"

This is kind of my theory on the "Bro Gun" concept - although I call mine "Red Shirt Carbines".

My funding is pretty tight, so I've gone towards 9MM, 5.56NATO and .308Win. When I find deals on mags or ammo, I try to pick some up.

A few years ago BCM ran a sale on uppers. I believe it was ~$500 for a 16" BFH Mid-Length WITH BCG, CH and comp. I'm fixin to replace the comps with some spare A2s to make the deal that much sweeter.

All I did was throw them on a standard lower and add a magpul handguard and Troy/SKD rear BUIS. As P2Xs came off my main guns, they ended up on the RSCs. The goal was to just have a couple extra rifles laying around in case shit went sideways and people I cared about found themselves in a position of "need and not have".

At some point fairly recently I saw that Primary Arms had an ACO knock-off for around $150 with mount. I hadn't really intended to put optics on the RSCs, but if I can get ~15mo out of the battery on this thing then I'll consider it "good enough" and pick some more up when I have a chance.

I picked up a couple of Hawkepaks bags to test out - A Quick N Dirty-Essentials and a QND-Small. They're pretty outstanding bags, especially for ~$50. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it, but I like the idea of having a couple extra rifles ready to go with bags hanging from them that have some mags, basic medical, and food/water. The most expensive component should be the ammo, which I've got anyway.

The QND-S is nice for 4 mags, a partial IFAK and some odds and ends. It is probably realistically too small for food/water, but I'm looking at options. At best I think I can do a meal replacement bar or two and 16oz of water.

The QND-E seems to have pretty limitless possibilities as a supplemental bag. It isn't a pack, but it isn't as efficient as the QND-S either. I could probably fit 6 mags and still get 32oz of water and a couple MRE entrees. http://www.hawkepaks.com/

I figure the "Bro Gun" works both ways. There are a lot of truly good people in this country who will never think they need shit until they are up shit creek without a paddle. I have paddles, I just don't have a boat. Maybe we can get along.

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

I would be more concerned with weapons competency than selection, Every single beginners course I can recall starts with safe handling for a reason. We all have also probably seen enough at the range or hunting to know that some who deem themselves "competent" are nothing of the sort.

Raise your hand if in military training you've seen things that make your eyes bleed or asshole pucker.

How do you know if the person your handing that AR, 45/70 or 870 to is even capable of handling your Crosman? Are you sure they won't become a force multiplier for the opposition by painting you, the neighbors cat or worse? Do they understand basic rules such as knowing what's beyond or behind your target?

It's great if you have grandpa or the rest of the family whom you know is competent. Ditto someone you've hunted/gone to the range with and people like LEO's who are familiar with proper handling. But beyond that the people I'm handing a weapon to is probably closer to the number of people who were grand prize winners in last nights lottery, than the number of people at a block party.

But then, this is New York State.

The AR, heck even the AK was designed to be mastered quickly, even by mouth breathers. Load mag, charge, safety off, aim, pull trigger until empty, drop mag reload, rinse, repeat.  I can teach my dog to do that- it's the easy part. But making sure Bozo the Clown, now armed with my 5.56 doesn't shoot me in the brain bucket is what concerns me more. When in doubt I'm going with the "known-knowns", nothing else.

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

Yup. That was the intent. Known, reasonably competent ppl. Maybe not a former Delta guy (he'd bring his own) but friends and relatives with their own caught in a tight spot. Random unknowns... whistle or radio, binos and a machete or a bat....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I'm still with you, Murph. 

------------

"One of the nice things about being around other soldiers is they will suffer your bullshit gladly, knowing sooner or later you will shut up and listen to theirs." - Jim Morris, War Story

 

"The military was strange like that. In the middle of the night you run into a major problem that requires you to put your faith in someone you never met before and probably would never see again. But that person knocks himself out to do his job and helps you get on with yours." - Harold W. Coyle, Team Yankee

Moustache_6 posted:

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

As a WWII collector, PLEASE tell me where you're getting $300 Mausers, assuming these are German, pre-war Czech, Polish, Greek contract or Yugoslavian...just saying 

MrMurphy posted:

Yup. That was the intent. Known, reasonably competent ppl. Maybe not a former Delta guy (he'd bring his own) but friends and relatives with their own caught in a tight spot. Random unknowns... whistle or radio, binos and a machete or a bat....

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with your premise.  I'm simply adding another factor for consideration.  

One way to slow people down with an underdeveloped skill set is to give them your bolt action. It permits more time for thinking and adjustment when someone needs to manipulate a bolt. Most looters will take off after that first shot is fired, provided they are still breathing. 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"You are never out of the fight."

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

Dux posted:
MrMurphy posted:

Yup. That was the intent. Known, reasonably competent ppl. Maybe not a former Delta guy (he'd bring his own) but friends and relatives with their own caught in a tight spot. Random unknowns... whistle or radio, binos and a machete or a bat....

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with your premise.  I'm simply adding another factor for consideration.  

One way to slow people down with an underdeveloped skill set is to give them your bolt action. It permits more time for thinking and adjustment when someone needs to manipulate a bolt. Most looters will take off after that first shot is fired, provided they are still breathing. 

...and Lee-Enfields have a 10 rnd mag & are pretty quick.

Pat_E posted:
Moustache_6 posted:

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

As a WWII collector, PLEASE tell me where you're getting $300 Mausers, assuming these are German, pre-war Czech, Polish, Greek contract or Yugoslavian...just saying 

$300 Yugo M48 Mauser's in good can sometimes be found if you look hard, hell impactguns.com had a bunch of them a couple months back in "very good" condition for $290 (one of my friends bought 2).
The Spanish Model 1893, and 1916 Mauser's in good condition can still be had for $100-to-$200 at gun shows, there are several listed online right now for less than $200. 

I know of a website that had a bunch of M1912 Chilean Mauser's stamped by Waffenfabrik Steyr (Made In Austria) for $260... just checked and they currently have 1 left which they've increased the price on to $299 w/free S&H  (PM me if you want the link).

 

Linz posted:

...and Lee-Enfields have a 10 rnd mag & are pretty quick.


The Lee-Enfield is my favorite bolt gun, smoothest and fastest bolt action out there, and the Indian Ishapore copies  are every bit as nice just not as attractive for the collector market.   Here in the US, sometimes if you're really lucky you can find Ishapore 7.62x51 Enfield's for around $300 +/-, came across a nice one back in May for $299...  but reluctantly passed on it.

I'm going to go a bit against the grain here and recommend against PSA/bargain basement ARs. Quality guns are cheap enough right now that there's no reason to buy guns or parts that wouldn't be suitable for duty/primary self defense use. IMHO you're more likely to use these guns for spare parts when your primary(ies) go down than to loan them out. With pre planning and scooping up deals, it's not beyond the relm of possibility to build quality guns, or have enough uppers/lowers/spares on hand to put them together, for the same or similar prices as the lower quality stuff that's out there. 

That said, I'm a sucker for a good deal and I've collected a bunch of stuff over time that I have simply because it was a good deal and I enjoy having it, or it fills some roll, however minor. Milsurp bolt action rifles, hunting rifles and shotguns for various uses, oddball pistols. Most of these I wouldn't hesitate to hand out for limited use to people I trust, but those are few and far between. Like most of you, the ones I do trust have their own and there would be some pretty exigent circumstances for them to require the use of mine. 

Add to the equation that it is illegal in California now for one to loan a firearm to anyone other than immediate family, and the list of people that get "bro guns" from me is very very small.

Joined: 12/2009
Location: California, Republic of

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

There are a TON of AR platform deals out there right now. From S&W .223 rigs to Sig and Ruger. Another one I keep seeing all the time is PSA. But not ever physically seeing one, or knowing anyone that has, I'm a bit skittish. I already have more Colt and BCM units than my entire family can man at once, but it is tempting to keep expanding....

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

I know everyone wants to say buy only name brands but everyone makes lemons and performers. I'd gladly run a safe of only Hodge rifles but that's not realistic for the average person. The deals are out there if you are looking for cheap AR's. There are also plenty of great unused options from people who got caught up in panic buying that have life getting in the way now. Leverage your options to get the best guns, accessories, and ammo you can afford without hurting yourself. Once you have that gun inspect it thoroughly and go test fire it. Just because it says BCM or Colt on the side doesn't mean it is perfect. 

I built up my stock over a long period of time and constantly buy ammo to keep the household supply ahead of the demand. Just putting away a little extra here and there can fill a shelf with ammo for the inevitable price increases or the short notice class you might want to take. 

I don't have most of my stuff for the end of the world. I have ammo and guns so when family or friends are here we can go shoot. I can grab a case of ammo and run to the range whenever I have free time. If there is a big ass storm and people want to loot I have ammo for that too... 

Moustache_6 posted:
Pat_E posted:
Moustache_6 posted:

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

As a WWII collector, PLEASE tell me where you're getting $300 Mausers, assuming these are German, pre-war Czech, Polish, Greek contract or Yugoslavian...just saying 

$300 Yugo M48 Mauser's in good can sometimes be found if you look hard, hell impactguns.com had a bunch of them a couple months back in "very good" condition for $290 (one of my friends bought 2).
The Spanish Model 1893, and 1916 Mauser's in good condition can still be had for $100-to-$200 at gun shows, there are several listed online right now for less than $200. 

I know of a website that had a bunch of M1912 Chilean Mauser's stamped by Waffenfabrik Steyr (Made In Austria) for $260... just checked and they currently have 1 left which they've increased the price on to $299 w/free S&H  (PM me if you want the link).

 

Linz posted:

...and Lee-Enfields have a 10 rnd mag & are pretty quick.


The Lee-Enfield is my favorite bolt gun, smoothest and fastest bolt action out there, and the Indian Ishapore copies  are every bit as nice just not as attractive for the collector market.   Here in the US, sometimes if you're really lucky you can find Ishapore 7.62x51 Enfield's for around $300 +/-, came across a nice one back in May for $299...  but reluctantly passed on it.

'Tis a shame...'cause while I like #1/#4/#5- I'm not a fan of the 7.7x56mm (.303 Brit for Imperialists) round. I have my #1MkIII* that I have had forever but most range/hunting with LE is via 7.62 conversion very styled around a L42.

I wonder if the US & Canadian market for Indian I2A rifles & carbines would justify production being started for export?

I wish I could get a 7.62 conversion kit for the  No.4.  I have a 1918 No 1 MkIII*, a No 4 Mk 2 and a No 4 Mk 1 converted to a quasi No. 5.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

MOJONIXON posted:

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

 

Instead of those I'd take R.Moran's lead and grab one of those S&W SD9's (well he probably went SD40 I can't remember but you get the idea). 

 

Also, having followed this thread it very much reminds me of The Travel Gun thread: 

https://www.lightfighter.net/to...he-travel-gun?page=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

LobsterClaw207 posted:
MOJONIXON posted:

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

 

Instead of those I'd take R.Moran's lead and grab one of those S&W SD9's (well he probably went SD40 I can't remember but you get the idea). 

 

Also, having followed this thread it very much reminds me of The Travel Gun thread: 

https://www.lightfighter.net/to...he-travel-gun?page=1

 

 

Agreed especially fter reading Bobs input on the SD9 I'd probably go that route as well. I was just trying to get possibly useful info out there for all to see/digest. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Dorsai posted:

I wish I could get a 7.62 conversion kit for the  No.4.  I have a 1918 No 1 MkIII*, a No 4 Mk 2 and a No 4 Mk 1 converted to a quasi No. 5.

Barrel is merely $$$.  The issue is (a) that there are several ways of doing the conversion (bolt/ejector) & (b) obtaining the magazines to match your conversion.

The I2A mags seem to work in the #4 as well.

We picked up an SD40VE for my wife at Gander Mountain right after they opened up the new (now closed/closing) location by us. IIRC it was 219 ish after tax out the door. Just because the gun rags / gun counter guys don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't functional. 

She's had a couple malfunctions, but most were in the first 3-4 mags of cheapass whitebox ball breaking it in. I don't think she's had a malfunction that I'm aware of in the past year with it.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

MOJONIXON posted:

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

Surplus P63, P64, Makarov, and Beretta M9's can be had between $199 - $299

Personally I'd take any of them over the DB9 or PT111, but YMMV

Linz posted:

I wonder if the US & Canadian market for Indian I2A rifles & carbines would justify production being started for export?


I don't know, based on how high the prices keep climbing it seems there would be a market...

If they started production up again I'd love to see the following Ishapore rifles made and exported to the US; 7.62 No.4 MKII pattern rifle, L42a1 pattern rifle, a No.5 jungle carbine (but without the barrel & receiver cuts that caused so many problems with the originals), and the DeLise carbine (but with an improved/stronger extractor).

Looking for a cheap handgun?  A lot better than a Taurus?

https://www.gtdist.com/product...emi-auto-pistol.html

Department Trade In Smith & Wesson M&P9Used S&W M&P 9mm night sights, 3-17 round magazines, grip panels, and factory hard case. $299.95.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I started the travel gun thread. Different need though sometimes a gun can fill both roles.  My travel gun is an 870P with a Choate folder at the moment,  this is 1 of my bro guns if necessary.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Dorsai posted:

Looking for a cheap handgun?  A lot better than a Taurus?

https://www.gtdist.com/product...emi-auto-pistol.html

Department Trade In Smith & Wesson M&P9Used S&W M&P 9mm night sights, 3-17 round magazines, grip panels, and factory hard case. $299.95.

Ding ding ding

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

As to the notion of buying cheap guns as handouts; I wouldn't buy a gun I didn't intend or want to shoot myself.Seems a waste   for such  a low  probability use. I'd rather just buy myself  a nice gun for me.What exactly is the chain of responsibility when I hand over a weapon to cousin Clem  and he shoots the insurance adjuster.

Eat til you are tired sleep til you are hungry

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