Something that came to mind from my experiences during Harvey. Quite a few people ended up evacuating, some to places like ours that also got hit but not as bad. 

 

Typical commentary going something like "hey bro my roof caved in, all i got is whats in my truck, can i sleep here?"  The smarter ones tended to have said evacuees added to the local security once looting started. 

All the looters we saw tended to be the same hood rat types we normally handle just with better shopping opportunities during disaster situations.  Most, confronted by a visibly alert and armed guard, moved on. Others got shot at and ran for it.  None of our antilooter shootings expended more than about 5 rounds.

Some of the people who had to relocate were our own LE guys, and some just had what was on them,  ie a pistol or not even that.   So some of our guys started discussing "bro guns", ie what in their personal collections would be useful to arm spare people. 

 

While obviously a tricked out AR would be nice, realistically most don't have a safe full of ARs they're willing to just pass out, even to family.  Spare shotguns (bird length or otherwise) , leverguns, etc with a box or two of good ammo are common enough and decent quality if you have one laying around. A weaponlight attached would be optimal. 

 

Even a 10/22 in capable hands can severely disrupt a looters night if its what you have handy.

In my case, i have enough WW2 bolt actions for a small fireteam. Obviously not the newest thing in fighting guns and ammo isnt cheap anymore, but certainly capable.  

Something worth thinking about in your safes... finding a supercheap 6720 or so-so Armalite may be worth a minor investment for a rainy day.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Original Post

All of my gun/ammo/accessories purchases since 2001 have been made with "loaner" suitability in mind.  May not have been the deciding factor, but it played a part.

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Assaulting enemy camps from 400 yards away since 1972.

"There is no nice way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards; our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us. The work we're too afraid, too unskilled, or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, out of our cars, out of our houses, and out of our faces. We just don't want to see how its done."
-Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.

Joined Lightfighter 1.0: early 2001, Lightfighter 2.0 11/19/02

Location:  Fucking Connecticut.  Goddammit.

I've thought about this as well, but here's the problem I have. The people I know who are gun savvy have their guns and have planned ahead, like we tend to do. The marginal ones who might need a loan, probably have enough knowledge and ability to utilize a revolver, maybe a pump gun (but maybe not under stress) but definitely not a semi anything. I think there's a  possibility we might overestimate others' capabilities.

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The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

In a few cases some of our people that ended up not fully equipped had a spouse or one of the older kids an 18 or older whatever run home and pack bags grab some stuff but didn't grab everything, ie grabbed their daily carry gun and a mag or two but not the ARs or shotgun or whatever, then the house ended up getting trashed. 

Most of my loaner guns are something i know most can run easily. Bolts and pumps, due to Texas having lots of hunters. Even not really shooter housewives dove hunt here and can run an 870 decently.

Stockpiling 30 or 40 rounds of buckshot for your extra bird gun, or 2 or 3 boxes for a deer rifle is better than nothing. All my dedicated fighting guns are spoken for, i.e me, wife, either dads (both are rusty but combat veterans, a 5 minute refresher would do fine). Ive considered building a basic/retro AR just for older family members since all of them carried the M16A1/A2 in their time.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I have bro guns but they are Glocks for my wife's cop friends a few Berettas for my Army friends, and a Spikes M4 type carbine with  a compM2, Armalite M4 type Carbine with carry handle, and a PSA middy with a carry handle.  Last two are for the kids but they are loaners for now.  I have a Centurion Arms mk12 and two LWRCi carbines but the glass is more than the carbines before these.  

It really depends on the person.  I have a M1 and a M1 carbine and the M1 carbine is for my mom because she learned how to shot on it.  It was my granddad's.

I'm confident in my ability to suitably equip section-sized element...or all the family I have locally.

"It's when you fuck up that you will hear from your peers, not when you are doing your job. We expect people to do their jobs, and don't praise them like six year olds who successfully tied their shoes when they do. " - Fatty

 

If in doubt about the tone of my post, please refer to avatar.

Funny that I should see this thread today. I commented to a friend of mine yesterday afternoon that the LGS had a used PPS M2 LE. (She is the one who opened my eyes to the PPQ, and thus the PPS M2 for a situation where a G19 or G26 might be too large.)  The conversation went thusly:

Me: Argh, there's a PPS M2 at [Redacted so you assholes who are local don't buy it out from under me]
Ash:  Lol. You're going to need a storage unit for all your toys �� But, I'm totally coming to your house for the zombie apocalypse
Me: Of course. Note I haven't actually bought it yet.
Her: Yet...
(a while later)
me: It's like you know me well or something
her: So did you buy it?

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

I've thought about this a lot  when my kids were growing up I decided I would outfit them with same type of guns I use.  Each of them when young were given a 10-22, when they turned 21, a pistol, an AR and then a bolt gun. Okay so now they are older and moved away. I've put aside a set for when they travel home so it is easier when they fly.  They were my first priority, now with ARs so cheap to build I have built a few just to have. Now most people I know are shooters who travel armed. However there may be a time when someone may be forced out of their home without anything. So went friends and family come to visit........well you know the rest. 

Depends on the friends and the guns and your disposable income, etc etc

I got shit for buying a S&W SD9..better gun then you would expect. I've seen them down to $225. A couple of those stored in an ammo can with a few boxes of ammo and a cheap holster...and just sign them out like an arms room...

Alternatively,  used Glocks that use the same mags as each other.

For long guns...a few Rem 870s or Mossbergs..even those chinese or turkish made copies. I'm not a shotgun lover though.

Some of the mid to lower end AR's...

 Again, what's your plan? A cheap gun is better then no gun..if it can get thru a a few boxes of ammo, you should be alright for anti-looter use...or...if you fired it that much..perhaps something better should now be available to you.

The Ar's at least can upgraded over time, and easily.

Revolvers and pump guns for the untrained...meh...they are both more difficult to shoot well with limited training, lack capacity. are slower to reload...slower still with limited training.

I always thought the single shot H&R Handi rifles, when they were still made, had some utility in an end of the world situation...short term for younger or uninitiated shooters who could use it from protected/high ground position...and learn to shoot in a long term scenario..then upgrade to the combat gun. The basic advantage is  price..you could buy a few of them in a common caliber that either you stock, or can be pilfered(if you are into the zombie scenario thing) put a mid price scope on them, and still be well under a basic AR.

If you've been to basic training, you can shoot an AR, "good enough" and could easily transition to a striker fired pistol..like the SD or Glock.

Most of the guys I know that would look to me for some sort of help, have some level of training with good combat guns, ie: Glock and M4's. They just may not own an appropriate gun or have it available to them.

But, I'm also careful with how I use the word "friend".

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Bob, good thoughts on the shotguns.  I owned and sold two successive Benelli Nova about 15 years ago now.  I want a Benelli M4, and I'd love another Nova (and keep the fucker this time!) because a pump might be easier for some to manipulate.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

 I'm not a shotgun type of guy but I know there value especially in a ban state where everything not in a wood stock is an " a-salt rifle". With that, Ive picked up a few used 500s & 870s at dirt cheap prices for "Bro guns" . All needed some minor work & cleaning up but after buying & testing with some cheap, bulk 12 ga all worked fine. Packed up in case with a sling, cable lock, ammo, and a copy of the manual in zip bag and off they went to friends and family in need. I've lent out two of them during "Iffy times" and one never came back which is fine as it was my cousin. Sandy taught me alot about bro guns and people  as a bunch of experienced people  mostly pistol folks asked me for "something better" but freaked out when offered an AR. 

Having an assortment of "Snap Caps" or other similar dummy rounds on hand in calibers common with your firearms would allow you to conduct some safe familiarization training for those that have never handled those types of firearms and would allow you to determine their level of confidence with the firearm in question.

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NURSETIM:  "-if you want to Darwin yourself, jump out at me dressed as a clown. I'm to fat to run."

 

Maskirovka:  "He was shootable, and therefore runthehelloverable."

 

bjw182005:  "Unfortunately this world is not populated entirely by Lightfighters."

 

 KOREAMARINE: "It offends them. I enjoy offending them. That's two "happies" for me- none for them!"

AR-15s are cheaper now than they've ever been.  Ever.  If you think you need a gun to keep around to hand off to a buddy in an emergency, I can't think of a better option than a bargain-bin AR-15 with an el-cheapo red dot on it.  Easy to train, easy to use, and you can share mags.


Certainly better than handing out Mauser 98s and 6ft long shotguns.

Hmmm, I remember when SKS's were  going for about 50 bucks and a case of  7.62x39 for about the same.

If only...but then I wouldn't have an excuse to buy things now.

How about Bro' lights?

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

I've been looking for old Surefire forends online and at some gunshows for that. I picked up used 18 & 20" bbls for the "Bro guns" sold the longer ones to offset costs. So far, hasn't been too bad investment wise maybe $600+/-. As these were not a primary "go to" gun, after puchase, examination and functional test fire everything was purchased slowly, over time. If needed, they were ready to go as is in the past but currently now are somewhat optimitally configured ( shorter bbl, sling, upgraded stocks, current internal parts, extended mag tubes)  save for WML. Finish is what came on them as is sights, beads. As aside, I'm amazed at how many guns are so neglected by the casual owner/user as to not be 100% functional. Owners just wanted to get rid of them & I even offered to clean them up to see what is wrong if anything. I only encountered a fucked up mag tube on a Maverick 88 that was sold off by me with full disclosure. All the others turned out to be cleaning, tlc and some minor parts. We truly live in a disposable society...

Yup. A "bro" who is a reasonably reliable family friend is ok with pistols (former deputy from NY) and familiar with ARs, etc enough to be handed one and trusted. A few months pre Harvey he inquired about a serious long gun. He lives in an apt.  Older guy, early 40s. No hunting,  no major training or competition in his future and limited budget. A used 870 being upgraded piece by piece is in his immediate future. At the time, 4 LFers were there so he got to see a 28" Benelli,  a 870P, an Archer Kanon and a 22" multigun Remington Versamax side by side. Hes familiar with pumps from his past and for typical defense stuff, the shotgun will serve him well. 

 

I'm not specifically buying stuff for the purpose but i have at least GI slings on anything I'd conceivably arm some bros with.  And most pistols have at least one or two holsters. 

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

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