Something that came to mind from my experiences during Harvey. Quite a few people ended up evacuating, some to places like ours that also got hit but not as bad. 

 

Typical commentary going something like "hey bro my roof caved in, all i got is whats in my truck, can i sleep here?"  The smarter ones tended to have said evacuees added to the local security once looting started. 

All the looters we saw tended to be the same hood rat types we normally handle just with better shopping opportunities during disaster situations.  Most, confronted by a visibly alert and armed guard, moved on. Others got shot at and ran for it.  None of our antilooter shootings expended more than about 5 rounds.

Some of the people who had to relocate were our own LE guys, and some just had what was on them,  ie a pistol or not even that.   So some of our guys started discussing "bro guns", ie what in their personal collections would be useful to arm spare people. 

 

While obviously a tricked out AR would be nice, realistically most don't have a safe full of ARs they're willing to just pass out, even to family.  Spare shotguns (bird length or otherwise) , leverguns, etc with a box or two of good ammo are common enough and decent quality if you have one laying around. A weaponlight attached would be optimal. 

 

Even a 10/22 in capable hands can severely disrupt a looters night if its what you have handy.

In my case, i have enough WW2 bolt actions for a small fireteam. Obviously not the newest thing in fighting guns and ammo isnt cheap anymore, but certainly capable.  

Something worth thinking about in your safes... finding a supercheap 6720 or so-so Armalite may be worth a minor investment for a rainy day.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Original Post

All of my gun/ammo/accessories purchases since 2001 have been made with "loaner" suitability in mind.  May not have been the deciding factor, but it played a part.

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Assaulting enemy camps from 400 yards away since 1972.

"There is no nice way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards; our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us. The work we're too afraid, too unskilled, or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, out of our cars, out of our houses, and out of our faces. We just don't want to see how its done."
-Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.

Joined Lightfighter 1.0: early 2001, Lightfighter 2.0 11/19/02

Location:  Fucking Connecticut.  Goddammit.

I've thought about this as well, but here's the problem I have. The people I know who are gun savvy have their guns and have planned ahead, like we tend to do. The marginal ones who might need a loan, probably have enough knowledge and ability to utilize a revolver, maybe a pump gun (but maybe not under stress) but definitely not a semi anything. I think there's a  possibility we might overestimate others' capabilities.

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The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

In a few cases some of our people that ended up not fully equipped had a spouse or one of the older kids an 18 or older whatever run home and pack bags grab some stuff but didn't grab everything, ie grabbed their daily carry gun and a mag or two but not the ARs or shotgun or whatever, then the house ended up getting trashed. 

Most of my loaner guns are something i know most can run easily. Bolts and pumps, due to Texas having lots of hunters. Even not really shooter housewives dove hunt here and can run an 870 decently.

Stockpiling 30 or 40 rounds of buckshot for your extra bird gun, or 2 or 3 boxes for a deer rifle is better than nothing. All my dedicated fighting guns are spoken for, i.e me, wife, either dads (both are rusty but combat veterans, a 5 minute refresher would do fine). Ive considered building a basic/retro AR just for older family members since all of them carried the M16A1/A2 in their time.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I have bro guns but they are Glocks for my wife's cop friends a few Berettas for my Army friends, and a Spikes M4 type carbine with  a compM2, Armalite M4 type Carbine with carry handle, and a PSA middy with a carry handle.  Last two are for the kids but they are loaners for now.  I have a Centurion Arms mk12 and two LWRCi carbines but the glass is more than the carbines before these.  

It really depends on the person.  I have a M1 and a M1 carbine and the M1 carbine is for my mom because she learned how to shot on it.  It was my granddad's.

I'm confident in my ability to suitably equip section-sized element...or all the family I have locally.

"It's when you fuck up that you will hear from your peers, not when you are doing your job. We expect people to do their jobs, and don't praise them like six year olds who successfully tied their shoes when they do. " - Fatty

 

If in doubt about the tone of my post, please refer to avatar.

Funny that I should see this thread today. I commented to a friend of mine yesterday afternoon that the LGS had a used PPS M2 LE. (She is the one who opened my eyes to the PPQ, and thus the PPS M2 for a situation where a G19 or G26 might be too large.)  The conversation went thusly:

Me: Argh, there's a PPS M2 at [Redacted so you assholes who are local don't buy it out from under me]
Ash:  Lol. You're going to need a storage unit for all your toys �� But, I'm totally coming to your house for the zombie apocalypse
Me: Of course. Note I haven't actually bought it yet.
Her: Yet...
(a while later)
me: It's like you know me well or something
her: So did you buy it?

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

I've thought about this a lot  when my kids were growing up I decided I would outfit them with same type of guns I use.  Each of them when young were given a 10-22, when they turned 21, a pistol, an AR and then a bolt gun. Okay so now they are older and moved away. I've put aside a set for when they travel home so it is easier when they fly.  They were my first priority, now with ARs so cheap to build I have built a few just to have. Now most people I know are shooters who travel armed. However there may be a time when someone may be forced out of their home without anything. So went friends and family come to visit........well you know the rest. 

Depends on the friends and the guns and your disposable income, etc etc

I got shit for buying a S&W SD9..better gun then you would expect. I've seen them down to $225. A couple of those stored in an ammo can with a few boxes of ammo and a cheap holster...and just sign them out like an arms room...

Alternatively,  used Glocks that use the same mags as each other.

For long guns...a few Rem 870s or Mossbergs..even those chinese or turkish made copies. I'm not a shotgun lover though.

Some of the mid to lower end AR's...

 Again, what's your plan? A cheap gun is better then no gun..if it can get thru a a few boxes of ammo, you should be alright for anti-looter use...or...if you fired it that much..perhaps something better should now be available to you.

The Ar's at least can upgraded over time, and easily.

Revolvers and pump guns for the untrained...meh...they are both more difficult to shoot well with limited training, lack capacity. are slower to reload...slower still with limited training.

I always thought the single shot H&R Handi rifles, when they were still made, had some utility in an end of the world situation...short term for younger or uninitiated shooters who could use it from protected/high ground position...and learn to shoot in a long term scenario..then upgrade to the combat gun. The basic advantage is  price..you could buy a few of them in a common caliber that either you stock, or can be pilfered(if you are into the zombie scenario thing) put a mid price scope on them, and still be well under a basic AR.

If you've been to basic training, you can shoot an AR, "good enough" and could easily transition to a striker fired pistol..like the SD or Glock.

Most of the guys I know that would look to me for some sort of help, have some level of training with good combat guns, ie: Glock and M4's. They just may not own an appropriate gun or have it available to them.

But, I'm also careful with how I use the word "friend".

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"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

Bob, good thoughts on the shotguns.  I owned and sold two successive Benelli Nova about 15 years ago now.  I want a Benelli M4, and I'd love another Nova (and keep the fucker this time!) because a pump might be easier for some to manipulate.

Joined: 30 May 2003                  Location: SE PA

 I'm not a shotgun type of guy but I know there value especially in a ban state where everything not in a wood stock is an " a-salt rifle". With that, Ive picked up a few used 500s & 870s at dirt cheap prices for "Bro guns" . All needed some minor work & cleaning up but after buying & testing with some cheap, bulk 12 ga all worked fine. Packed up in case with a sling, cable lock, ammo, and a copy of the manual in zip bag and off they went to friends and family in need. I've lent out two of them during "Iffy times" and one never came back which is fine as it was my cousin. Sandy taught me alot about bro guns and people  as a bunch of experienced people  mostly pistol folks asked me for "something better" but freaked out when offered an AR. 

Having an assortment of "Snap Caps" or other similar dummy rounds on hand in calibers common with your firearms would allow you to conduct some safe familiarization training for those that have never handled those types of firearms and would allow you to determine their level of confidence with the firearm in question.

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NURSETIM:  "-if you want to Darwin yourself, jump out at me dressed as a clown. I'm to fat to run."

 

Maskirovka:  "He was shootable, and therefore runthehelloverable."

 

bjw182005:  "Unfortunately this world is not populated entirely by Lightfighters."

 

 KOREAMARINE: "It offends them. I enjoy offending them. That's two "happies" for me- none for them!"

AR-15s are cheaper now than they've ever been.  Ever.  If you think you need a gun to keep around to hand off to a buddy in an emergency, I can't think of a better option than a bargain-bin AR-15 with an el-cheapo red dot on it.  Easy to train, easy to use, and you can share mags.


Certainly better than handing out Mauser 98s and 6ft long shotguns.

Hmmm, I remember when SKS's were  going for about 50 bucks and a case of  7.62x39 for about the same.

If only...but then I wouldn't have an excuse to buy things now.

How about Bro' lights?

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

I've been looking for old Surefire forends online and at some gunshows for that. I picked up used 18 & 20" bbls for the "Bro guns" sold the longer ones to offset costs. So far, hasn't been too bad investment wise maybe $600+/-. As these were not a primary "go to" gun, after puchase, examination and functional test fire everything was purchased slowly, over time. If needed, they were ready to go as is in the past but currently now are somewhat optimitally configured ( shorter bbl, sling, upgraded stocks, current internal parts, extended mag tubes)  save for WML. Finish is what came on them as is sights, beads. As aside, I'm amazed at how many guns are so neglected by the casual owner/user as to not be 100% functional. Owners just wanted to get rid of them & I even offered to clean them up to see what is wrong if anything. I only encountered a fucked up mag tube on a Maverick 88 that was sold off by me with full disclosure. All the others turned out to be cleaning, tlc and some minor parts. We truly live in a disposable society...

Yup. A "bro" who is a reasonably reliable family friend is ok with pistols (former deputy from NY) and familiar with ARs, etc enough to be handed one and trusted. A few months pre Harvey he inquired about a serious long gun. He lives in an apt.  Older guy, early 40s. No hunting,  no major training or competition in his future and limited budget. A used 870 being upgraded piece by piece is in his immediate future. At the time, 4 LFers were there so he got to see a 28" Benelli,  a 870P, an Archer Kanon and a 22" multigun Remington Versamax side by side. Hes familiar with pumps from his past and for typical defense stuff, the shotgun will serve him well. 

 

I'm not specifically buying stuff for the purpose but i have at least GI slings on anything I'd conceivably arm some bros with.  And most pistols have at least one or two holsters. 

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Agree on revolvers, pumps, and even levers being a bad choice for a GP "hand-out" gun.  One reason is cost, another complexity.  But an even bigger reason is my ability to teach others quickly.  The AR and Glock are the weapons I am most familiar with, knowledgeable about, and the ones I have the most experience teaching others to use.  Also the two I maintain significant ammo, mags, & parts for.  I would add a red dot to ARs, even a cheap one, as sighting is the biggest issue "new" users will have, and it provides the most ROI in its ability to improve odds of hitting the target, boosting confidence, speeding the teaching process, etc.  Yes on slings, but cheap carry straps are likely enough for most, skip the two-point tactical slings.

Pistols...Glock or Glock-like in 9mm.  I picked up a Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 last year for $185.  12+1, two mags, external safety, and works.  I actually like it for what it is, and the trigger broke in after 50-ish rounds to be quite decent.  Yeah, it's a Taurus, but at $185, I wish I'd bought three.  Just grabbed a M&P Shield for $289, and it's nice, too.  The Taurus wins, though, on price, capacity, ease of disassembly, and on being a better size for serious use.  I keep it in the wife's mini-van, stowed away for a bad day.

Let's go a bit further...how about a simple "go" bag for the hastily-equipped clan in a disaster or defensive scenario?  I think a simple, cheap backpack with 4x bottled water, an MRE, FRS radio, flashlight, 4 rifle mags, simple cleaning kit (lube, toothbrush, boresnake), couple of those cheap USCG/German made parachute flares, and a poncho.

"It's when you fuck up that you will hear from your peers, not when you are doing your job. We expect people to do their jobs, and don't praise them like six year olds who successfully tied their shoes when they do. " - Fatty

 

If in doubt about the tone of my post, please refer to avatar.

I bought a PSA AR in parts for less than $400. That would be a good buddy gun. 

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"One of the nice things about being around other soldiers is they will suffer your bullshit gladly, knowing sooner or later you will shut up and listen to theirs." - Jim Morris, War Story

 

"The military was strange like that. In the middle of the night you run into a major problem that requires you to put your faith in someone you never met before and probably would never see again. But that person knocks himself out to do his job and helps you get on with yours." - Harold W. Coyle, Team Yankee

Yes, older, as in set in his ways and without large amounts of expendable income. I hit 40 next month, i work with 23 yr olds that have $50k trucks and no other major bills. I have a house,  land, wife, kid and car payment on the same pay.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

So this is actually something my wife and I have discussed rather frequently. This is what I had in mind, understanding that this is a long term goal. Bear with me.

Four rifles. Either AR-15 variants or akm variants. Think PSA Premium, or Wasrs. Each rifle would be assigned five (5) magazines, 1500 rds of ammo, a chest rig w/ four mag capacity, and a basic IFAK. Think along the lines of gloves, pressure bandage, TQ, and chest seal.  Rough guestimate would put you at $900ish  per loadout without spending the time to add it all up.  

Then my wife said something. "Why would we arm people that didn't prepare for themselves?" I was stumped. I guess kind of like if a kid can identify your password, you need a new password. My wife is NOT very tactically minded, and even she was able to identify this. 

Even with just the cost of one loadout, I could pay for my wife to go and take a tactics class, and pay for ammo. I now have a trained two person fire-team, rather than 4 extra schmucks with guns and ammo that probably called me paranoid the week before. 

WITH ALL THAT SAID, if you have a solid group of people that you absolutely know you can depend on, the finances, and patience to support it, then let capitalism take place.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Agreed. This isn't for arming your entire extended family, just putting some thought into what you have at hand in the event you unexpectedly need to arm an already reasonably trained friend who due to circumstances has to house crash for a while without his own stuff.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Brock01 posted:

Then my wife said something. "Why would we arm people that didn't prepare for themselves?" I was stumped. I guess kind of like if a kid can identify your password, you need a new password. My wife is NOT very tactically minded, and even she was able to identify this. 

I understand her logic.

But then there are things like heavy lifting,  maintaining perimeter, OP, cooking, water, or they just have skills you don't such as medical, electrical, etc..

If all you got is you it doesn't take much to stretch you too thin.

And then somebody always has to walk point...

 

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

TNYankee posted:

Let's go a bit further...how about a simple "go" bag for the hastily-equipped clan in a disaster or defensive scenario?  I think a simple, cheap backpack with 4x bottled water, an MRE, FRS radio, flashlight, 4 rifle mags, simple cleaning kit (lube, toothbrush, boresnake), couple of those cheap USCG/German made parachute flares, and a poncho.

I can't fully articulate why, but a VS-17 air panel would be a good addition.  It makes for a good daylight marker in daylight.  Also good for marking an occupied room if hung from the window.

This assumes society has not collapsed and there are folks aloft and conducting CSAR.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

jcustisredux posted:
TNYankee posted:

Let's go a bit further...how about a simple "go" bag for the hastily-equipped clan in a disaster or defensive scenario?  I think a simple, cheap backpack with 4x bottled water, an MRE, FRS radio, flashlight, 4 rifle mags, simple cleaning kit (lube, toothbrush, boresnake), couple of those cheap USCG/German made parachute flares, and a poncho.

I can't fully articulate why, but a VS-17 air panel would be a good addition.  It makes for a good daylight marker in daylight.  Also good for marking an occupied room if hung from the window.

This assumes society has not collapsed and there are folks aloft and conducting CSAR.

The right people would know what a VS-17 is and would assume (I know we shouldn't)  know the tribe  who would use it.

Joined  4/5/03  Location Maine

stray round posted:
Brock01 posted:

Then my wife said something. "Why would we arm people that didn't prepare for themselves?" I was stumped. I guess kind of like if a kid can identify your password, you need a new password. My wife is NOT very tactically minded, and even she was able to identify this. 

I understand her logic.

But then there are things like heavy lifting,  maintaining perimeter, OP, cooking, water, or they just have skills you don't such as medical, electrical, etc..

If all you got is you it doesn't take much to stretch you too thin.

And then somebody always has to walk point...

 

I can agree with you here. In the case where someone has something to legitimately offer me (skill or physical item), than that is fine. Someone just shows up because they know I have guns? They can place their lips upon my pasty white arse.

 I suppose what has to be established, is are you trying to set up an entire compound? Or just be the  grey-man and try not to "exist". 

Good points all around.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

I actually considered listing a VS17 panel, and should have.  I was thinking about team-to-team signaling, not team to external air asset.  OTOH...not sure how much I want attention I want from an unknown air asset I have no comms with, assuming worst case scenario.  But it wouldn't hurt to have, small weight penalty and all.  Also, a med kit was missed on the load list, basic stuff.

I'm not interested in arming strangers with uncertain motivations or loyalty.  I would arm family, both actual and blue.  My neighborhood is large, and has a ton of unknown folks in it.

"It's when you fuck up that you will hear from your peers, not when you are doing your job. We expect people to do their jobs, and don't praise them like six year olds who successfully tied their shoes when they do. " - Fatty

 

If in doubt about the tone of my post, please refer to avatar.

For way less weight penalty, toss in a couple of signaling mirrors.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

Very interesting topic.

First of all Fuck you Murphy.

Secondly, as Bob said, I have a pretty strict definition of "friend."

But for those who have been to my house, you know the real problem.  I am on my fucking own.  There is no one in my AO....and I mean NO ONE.   In a perfect scenario, the whole CT Beer Social crew would be around but unlike another site, that is delusional thinking.  Everyone has to take care of their own.  Hell, I'm 45 miles from my family down state.   It just me, Stalin, P1, a Chihuahua and four cats.  Not exactly SEAL Team 6.

Being near the Hartford line,  this summer has seen a massive increase in burglaries, robberies and car thefts. The visitors know that it's a target rich environment and that all they have to do is hit and run back to Hartford where no one will chase them.  They have now come in daylight...on weekends....with people home but inside as they steal their cars or take things from the garage.  

There has luckily not been a confrontation which is a good thing and why I could have a limitless supply of "bro guns" and no one to give them to.  This place is so anti gun that on the local Facebook town page that my wife frequents, everyone complains about the incredible rise in crime yet when ONE guy suggested getting a gun, the place went so crazy, they kicked him off.  The overwhelming sentiment was I'd rather lose all of my shit than have a gun in the house.  And the people from Hartford know that too.  It's easy pickings plus with our new definition of "minor" going to 20 years of age and the closing of all juvenile holding facilities by our fearless leader, Gov. Malloy, the kids know there is no risk.  They could get caught a thousand times and not have a criminal record until they would commit a crime at age 21.  So lots of rich people....with lots of rich shit.....with open hatred of defending themselves because "society has made them this way"....with little chance of getting caught....and no punishment if you did.  Holy fuck, I'm surprised we haven't been overrun by now.

My house alone has four first floor entry ways.  My only feasible strategy if caught there is defend from the second floor and make it so bloody that people run the fuck away.  But all they need is one dude with a gas can and a lighter and things can get sporty quickly.  Poor mans siege weapon but brutally effective.  Johnny no like fire.  Fire burn.  Fire make Johnny sad.

I do have a plan that would probably work very well and only requires me to travel less than a mile.  But should that not workout and someday the balloon goes up and you guys are watching my local news coverage of Day 5 of The Hartford Riots and one of you that's been to my house sees a cadaver dog sniffing around the burning embers of my home...AVENGE ME!!!  AVENGE ME!!!

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

I AM GROOT.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Several PSA Premium AR uppers bought on sale with BCM BCG were the basis of a few of my AR's intended for this purpose and for arming grand-kids and their families when they are older. A few SKS were purchased when they were cheap 30 years ago. Several WASR-10 fairly recently along with a couple of PTR-91's and a couple DSA FAL. Between the CA state government, Obama and the fear of Hildebeast, the years before the 2016 election were busy buying guns and ammo.

Now is a good time to stock up before the next panic. Should be some good sales Thanksgiving with the current market. Winter is Coming...

 

Garg 'nuair dhùisgear

I'm not a gun guy and don't own any myself because guns are scary. That being said, I heard about a guy who keeps enough spare AR's on hand to arm a squad of folks to form the local neighborhood watch. That guy lives in an area with lots of previous military guys who would be familiar with AR's but who also have very good life skills (Dr's, Engineers, etc). I er, I mean 

I er, I mean he also has a bunch of Glock 19's and support gear for this same purpose. The short guns can go to others who are only familiar with pistols but can also serve as a secondary for others. 

I do have brothers, as well as many former SOF coworkers who are local that I would have no problem opening the safe for. Those dudes can put in work if needed and they might have been at work, or somewhere that would leave them unarmed before they show up on my doorstep. 

geronimo posted:

I'm not a gun guy and don't own any myself because guns are scary. That being said, I heard about a guy who keeps enough spare AR's on hand to arm a squad of folks to form the local neighborhood watch. That guy lives in an area with lots of previous military guys who would be familiar with AR's but who also have very good life skills (Dr's, Engineers, etc). I er, I mean 

I er, I mean he also has a bunch of Glock 19's and support gear for this same purpose. The short guns can go to others who are only familiar with pistols but can also serve as a secondary for others. 

I do have brothers, as well as many former SOF coworkers who are local that I would have no problem opening the safe for. Those dudes can put in work if needed and they might have been at work, or somewhere that would leave them unarmed before they show up on my doorstep. 

No one likes a showoff.

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

I AM GROOT.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Consigliere posted:

"...AVENGE ME!!!  AVENGE ME!!!"

You post this almost on the same day Harry Dean Stanton died, at 91 y/o .  RIP. Wolverines!!!

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

My Bro guns would be for guys like the one who "borrowed" a Win 1200 after his roof & half his house collapsed on eveything he owned including his safe! My criteria for even discussing what I have is strict let alone lending anything out.  FWIW  in my old area where I resided, I was suprised at which neighbors had some type of gun ready to go in case of looting after Sandy. Most I'd never expect, some I was sure had something but no confirmation until I actually saw it. 

I concur, GNX. I don't see myself handing out guns to people in the neighborhood and training them for the domestic catastrophe equivalent of FID. My military and LE friends who, for one reason or another, have lost access to theirs? Of course. I have a long time friend, the guy I trusted to take care of my wife and kids while I was deployed, he can fix anything, but he is not a gun guy. He has no interest in owning one, and he does not perceive a need for one himself. But if things went sideways I would not hesitate to hand one to him and tell him, in 30 seconds or less, how it works.

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"One of the nice things about being around other soldiers is they will suffer your bullshit gladly, knowing sooner or later you will shut up and listen to theirs." - Jim Morris, War Story

 

"The military was strange like that. In the middle of the night you run into a major problem that requires you to put your faith in someone you never met before and probably would never see again. But that person knocks himself out to do his job and helps you get on with yours." - Harold W. Coyle, Team Yankee

I can't recall who the manufacturer was but I got an e-mail over the weekend that had M4 type carbines for $399. It wasn't PSA but I'm brain farting on who it was. 

No free blow job with it but $399, damn. Even if it only works for several mags worth, in a tough spot I wouldn't hesitate to hand them out if I had them and the need was there. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

If you're wondering how and why some of those prices are so low, this is the answer in many of the cases.  First off, don't slam the manufacturers for believing that Hillary was going to win the election and that there would be a continued or even accelerated demand.  All the pundits said she was going to win.  So they ramped up production, especially of guns that were high on her ban desires.  When that didn't happen and the demand dropped, they've got a lot of excess inventory.

Second reason.  A lot of manufacturers have incentives to dealers and distributors.  Buy x number of guns and we'll give you 1 free.  So for some dealers/distributors, who have a bunch of guns on the shelf, they can amortize those free guns in with the ones they paid for and offer a killer deal while still making some money.  And before anyone slams a business for making money, if they don't, they won't be a business for very long.  In most cases, nobody is trying to shaft the consumer, because they are in competition with the next guy.

So when you see these deals, take advantage of them while you can.  At this time, the supply vs. demand equation is on the side of the buy.  Supply is high, demand has dropped.  When inventory becomes balanced, prices will go up again.  And if you can, throw some of that business to your local stores.  It isn't hard to find a good deal online, but that's because they don't have the brick and mortar costs of an actual store where you can go in and fondle the gun before you decide whether you are going to buy it or not.  If you want to actually handle it in person, not just a review or photo online, keep those local stores in business.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

GNX, JW that was the intent of this thread.  Not arming random guy off the street, but people you already know are trained to at least a reasonable level of competency, and you know personally you can trust. 

If my uncle happens to be visiting and disaster hits... he probably won't have a gun on him (no chl), and his .mil time was when LBJ was in office. But he hunted for years and shot PPC competitively. A .38 and a bolt action would do him fine,  an AR would not. Compared to another LFer more up to speed who happens to be over... sure, hand out the spare AR, AK etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

For this sort of scenario, and the untrained watch keeper, I could go with Cooper's theory on a single barrel break gun, or diverge 180 and hand off a light AR with an inserted 40 round Magpul mag. The fight will be over before the 40 rounds run out, so no real need to teach reloads and bolt manipulation.

Show the watchkeeper the safety, "Push this down, put this dot on the chest of the badguy, pull this, repeat as needed- I will hear the shooting and come running to help- Got it? Questions?"

For me to loan a bro a gun, he will first have to demonstrate a need for one. And his "need" better not be "Uh I never thought I'd need one" or "I never got around to buying one". 

Maybe it's only me, but those who don't take the personal steps to protect themselves also don't offer much to me in terms of disaster protection or recovery. I *guess* I'll take in the nurse down the street who never owned a gun, but... I'm not giving her one. Because she never owned one. 

Your house collapsed on top of your gun safe? You can't safely return to your neighborhood or house for whatever reason? Burned? Your guns got flooded out? Stolen?  Here, I've got a few, you pick the one you like best. 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

Longeye posted:

 

Show the watchkeeper the safety, "Push this down, put this dot on the chest of the badguy, pull this, repeat as needed- I will hear the shooting and come running to help- Got it? Questions?"

"Do you . . . Could I borrow a gun or something?" she asked, trying to figure out the connections on the body armor.
"What would you do with it?" he asked, disgustedly, grabbing the Velcro and efficiently connecting first one underarm strap then the other.
"Try?"
"You should have tried years ago," he answered. He reached back into the duffel and brought out a short black pistol in a shoulder holster.

"You ever use one of these things before?" he asked rhetorically, dropping out the magazine and yanking back the slide to eject the round up the spout. He caught the 9mm round in the air like a trout after a fly.
"No," she answered, intimidated by his suddenly revealed expertise.
"Okay." He lifted up the magazine. "This is the gas, you fuel it like this." He slid the magazine back into the well. "It's fueled when you hear the click. You start it like this." He jacked back the slide. "And," he said, laying one finger lightly on the trigger as he pointed the weapon skyward and across the river, "this is the accelerator. You drive it by looking through the rear sights while focusing on the front sights. Place the white dot on the front sight across the V of the rear sights and pull on the accelerator real slow. There, the Tom Sunday School of Glock Driving."
She accepted the weapon gingerly as he ensured she had it pointed up and downrange.
"So where is Park?" she asked dryly.

This hits home with me....

i grew up in a neighborhood where all of us friends  were like brothers. In fact, when most of us became of age and bought firearms, we often sold and traded among each other with out doing the dros/transfer. I went to Sequioa in August and my childhood buddy offered to loan me his 357 s&w revolver. 

i would do the bro gun thing for select friends that's for sure. The mossberg Maverick for under 200 bucks comes to mind....if cost and money is thight

I'm also with lobster if someone dragged there feet n purpose not to prepare and cried Argentina I would have to give that some thought. Almost all of my good friends are gun guys and are prepared pretty well. 

Sadly, the neighborhood I currently live in is nice but not real brotherly...so....there is that for another post

Had to twice before, for "gun people" who got married to anti gun wives.  All of the sudden when their lives are in legit danger a firearm doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

 


 "We have no scars to show for happiness.

We learn so little from peace."

My choice for a "loaner" gun was a Mossberg 12 ga. shotgun with a long vent rib barrel and a short 18.5" barrel. Most people can be quickly trained on it, and it can be used for hunting as well as self defense.

 

As far as "cheap" AR's, I think that if you're depending on a Bro to cover a field of fire, a cheap gun going down at the worst time would be really bad. The idea mentioned above of sticking in a quality BCG from BCM, or another top tier manufacturer, is a good one.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute – get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.”

- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Joined: 4/22/09          Location: WI

Longeye posted:

Show the watchkeeper the safety, "Push this down, put this dot on the chest of the badguy, pull this, repeat as needed- I will hear the shooting and come running to help- Got it? Questions?"

This is kind of my theory on the "Bro Gun" concept - although I call mine "Red Shirt Carbines".

My funding is pretty tight, so I've gone towards 9MM, 5.56NATO and .308Win. When I find deals on mags or ammo, I try to pick some up.

A few years ago BCM ran a sale on uppers. I believe it was ~$500 for a 16" BFH Mid-Length WITH BCG, CH and comp. I'm fixin to replace the comps with some spare A2s to make the deal that much sweeter.

All I did was throw them on a standard lower and add a magpul handguard and Troy/SKD rear BUIS. As P2Xs came off my main guns, they ended up on the RSCs. The goal was to just have a couple extra rifles laying around in case shit went sideways and people I cared about found themselves in a position of "need and not have".

At some point fairly recently I saw that Primary Arms had an ACO knock-off for around $150 with mount. I hadn't really intended to put optics on the RSCs, but if I can get ~15mo out of the battery on this thing then I'll consider it "good enough" and pick some more up when I have a chance.

I picked up a couple of Hawkepaks bags to test out - A Quick N Dirty-Essentials and a QND-Small. They're pretty outstanding bags, especially for ~$50. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it, but I like the idea of having a couple extra rifles ready to go with bags hanging from them that have some mags, basic medical, and food/water. The most expensive component should be the ammo, which I've got anyway.

The QND-S is nice for 4 mags, a partial IFAK and some odds and ends. It is probably realistically too small for food/water, but I'm looking at options. At best I think I can do a meal replacement bar or two and 16oz of water.

The QND-E seems to have pretty limitless possibilities as a supplemental bag. It isn't a pack, but it isn't as efficient as the QND-S either. I could probably fit 6 mags and still get 32oz of water and a couple MRE entrees. http://www.hawkepaks.com/

I figure the "Bro Gun" works both ways. There are a lot of truly good people in this country who will never think they need shit until they are up shit creek without a paddle. I have paddles, I just don't have a boat. Maybe we can get along.

______________

"A pistol is what you carry when you do not expect a problem. If you expect a problem you can't avoid, and you are not taking a long gun, you are not very smart." - DM

 

Joined: 04Nov2007         Location: Indiana

I would be more concerned with weapons competency than selection, Every single beginners course I can recall starts with safe handling for a reason. We all have also probably seen enough at the range or hunting to know that some who deem themselves "competent" are nothing of the sort.

Raise your hand if in military training you've seen things that make your eyes bleed or asshole pucker.

How do you know if the person your handing that AR, 45/70 or 870 to is even capable of handling your Crosman? Are you sure they won't become a force multiplier for the opposition by painting you, the neighbors cat or worse? Do they understand basic rules such as knowing what's beyond or behind your target?

It's great if you have grandpa or the rest of the family whom you know is competent. Ditto someone you've hunted/gone to the range with and people like LEO's who are familiar with proper handling. But beyond that the people I'm handing a weapon to is probably closer to the number of people who were grand prize winners in last nights lottery, than the number of people at a block party.

But then, this is New York State.

The AR, heck even the AK was designed to be mastered quickly, even by mouth breathers. Load mag, charge, safety off, aim, pull trigger until empty, drop mag reload, rinse, repeat.  I can teach my dog to do that- it's the easy part. But making sure Bozo the Clown, now armed with my 5.56 doesn't shoot me in the brain bucket is what concerns me more. When in doubt I'm going with the "known-knowns", nothing else.

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

Yup. That was the intent. Known, reasonably competent ppl. Maybe not a former Delta guy (he'd bring his own) but friends and relatives with their own caught in a tight spot. Random unknowns... whistle or radio, binos and a machete or a bat....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I'm still with you, Murph. 

------------

"One of the nice things about being around other soldiers is they will suffer your bullshit gladly, knowing sooner or later you will shut up and listen to theirs." - Jim Morris, War Story

 

"The military was strange like that. In the middle of the night you run into a major problem that requires you to put your faith in someone you never met before and probably would never see again. But that person knocks himself out to do his job and helps you get on with yours." - Harold W. Coyle, Team Yankee

Moustache_6 posted:

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

As a WWII collector, PLEASE tell me where you're getting $300 Mausers, assuming these are German, pre-war Czech, Polish, Greek contract or Yugoslavian...just saying 

MrMurphy posted:

Yup. That was the intent. Known, reasonably competent ppl. Maybe not a former Delta guy (he'd bring his own) but friends and relatives with their own caught in a tight spot. Random unknowns... whistle or radio, binos and a machete or a bat....

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with your premise.  I'm simply adding another factor for consideration.  

One way to slow people down with an underdeveloped skill set is to give them your bolt action. It permits more time for thinking and adjustment when someone needs to manipulate a bolt. Most looters will take off after that first shot is fired, provided they are still breathing. 

_______________________________________________________
"Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset"         

 

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem"

 

Joined: 9/5/2011 Location: The Former Empire State, now The State of Anarchy

Dux posted:
MrMurphy posted:

Yup. That was the intent. Known, reasonably competent ppl. Maybe not a former Delta guy (he'd bring his own) but friends and relatives with their own caught in a tight spot. Random unknowns... whistle or radio, binos and a machete or a bat....

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with your premise.  I'm simply adding another factor for consideration.  

One way to slow people down with an underdeveloped skill set is to give them your bolt action. It permits more time for thinking and adjustment when someone needs to manipulate a bolt. Most looters will take off after that first shot is fired, provided they are still breathing. 

...and Lee-Enfields have a 10 rnd mag & are pretty quick.

Pat_E posted:
Moustache_6 posted:

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

As a WWII collector, PLEASE tell me where you're getting $300 Mausers, assuming these are German, pre-war Czech, Polish, Greek contract or Yugoslavian...just saying 

$300 Yugo M48 Mauser's in good can sometimes be found if you look hard, hell impactguns.com had a bunch of them a couple months back in "very good" condition for $290 (one of my friends bought 2).
The Spanish Model 1893, and 1916 Mauser's in good condition can still be had for $100-to-$200 at gun shows, there are several listed online right now for less than $200. 

I know of a website that had a bunch of M1912 Chilean Mauser's stamped by Waffenfabrik Steyr (Made In Austria) for $260... just checked and they currently have 1 left which they've increased the price on to $299 w/free S&H  (PM me if you want the link).

 

Linz posted:

...and Lee-Enfields have a 10 rnd mag & are pretty quick.


The Lee-Enfield is my favorite bolt gun, smoothest and fastest bolt action out there, and the Indian Ishapore copies  are every bit as nice just not as attractive for the collector market.   Here in the US, sometimes if you're really lucky you can find Ishapore 7.62x51 Enfield's for around $300 +/-, came across a nice one back in May for $299...  but reluctantly passed on it.

I'm going to go a bit against the grain here and recommend against PSA/bargain basement ARs. Quality guns are cheap enough right now that there's no reason to buy guns or parts that wouldn't be suitable for duty/primary self defense use. IMHO you're more likely to use these guns for spare parts when your primary(ies) go down than to loan them out. With pre planning and scooping up deals, it's not beyond the relm of possibility to build quality guns, or have enough uppers/lowers/spares on hand to put them together, for the same or similar prices as the lower quality stuff that's out there. 

That said, I'm a sucker for a good deal and I've collected a bunch of stuff over time that I have simply because it was a good deal and I enjoy having it, or it fills some roll, however minor. Milsurp bolt action rifles, hunting rifles and shotguns for various uses, oddball pistols. Most of these I wouldn't hesitate to hand out for limited use to people I trust, but those are few and far between. Like most of you, the ones I do trust have their own and there would be some pretty exigent circumstances for them to require the use of mine. 

Add to the equation that it is illegal in California now for one to loan a firearm to anyone other than immediate family, and the list of people that get "bro guns" from me is very very small.

Joined: 12/2009
Location: California, Republic of

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

There are a TON of AR platform deals out there right now. From S&W .223 rigs to Sig and Ruger. Another one I keep seeing all the time is PSA. But not ever physically seeing one, or knowing anyone that has, I'm a bit skittish. I already have more Colt and BCM units than my entire family can man at once, but it is tempting to keep expanding....

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

I know everyone wants to say buy only name brands but everyone makes lemons and performers. I'd gladly run a safe of only Hodge rifles but that's not realistic for the average person. The deals are out there if you are looking for cheap AR's. There are also plenty of great unused options from people who got caught up in panic buying that have life getting in the way now. Leverage your options to get the best guns, accessories, and ammo you can afford without hurting yourself. Once you have that gun inspect it thoroughly and go test fire it. Just because it says BCM or Colt on the side doesn't mean it is perfect. 

I built up my stock over a long period of time and constantly buy ammo to keep the household supply ahead of the demand. Just putting away a little extra here and there can fill a shelf with ammo for the inevitable price increases or the short notice class you might want to take. 

I don't have most of my stuff for the end of the world. I have ammo and guns so when family or friends are here we can go shoot. I can grab a case of ammo and run to the range whenever I have free time. If there is a big ass storm and people want to loot I have ammo for that too... 

Moustache_6 posted:
Pat_E posted:
Moustache_6 posted:

Sub-$300 C&R bolt action rifle (Mauser, Arisaka, etc..) handed off to be carried in "amber status" (loaded w/empty chamber, safety on) at all times would be my preferred way handle "Bro Gun" hand outs.  Plenty of decent DA/SA surplus handguns  are also in the Sub-$300 range (some of which are also C&R eligible).  Handguns would also be handed out in "amber status" with instructions that it stays that way unless a need to fire/return fire arises.  If anyone makes an attempt to chamber a round outside of a justifiable event, they'll be considered hostile and treated as a enemy who's threatened lethal force against me.

This provides a small measure of protection from infiltration of a hostile person, as well as providing some protection from ND's.  I do not like the idea of untrained or poorly trained people carrying hot firearms around me, even more so in a potentially dangerous environment.  If I know a person fairly well and trust that their level of training is beyond that of an average LEO/MIL schmuck, then I'd be willing to let them carry in "red condition" or perhaps loan them something better.

That's my outlook on equipping people during a natural or manmade disaster event, YMMV

As a WWII collector, PLEASE tell me where you're getting $300 Mausers, assuming these are German, pre-war Czech, Polish, Greek contract or Yugoslavian...just saying 

$300 Yugo M48 Mauser's in good can sometimes be found if you look hard, hell impactguns.com had a bunch of them a couple months back in "very good" condition for $290 (one of my friends bought 2).
The Spanish Model 1893, and 1916 Mauser's in good condition can still be had for $100-to-$200 at gun shows, there are several listed online right now for less than $200. 

I know of a website that had a bunch of M1912 Chilean Mauser's stamped by Waffenfabrik Steyr (Made In Austria) for $260... just checked and they currently have 1 left which they've increased the price on to $299 w/free S&H  (PM me if you want the link).

 

Linz posted:

...and Lee-Enfields have a 10 rnd mag & are pretty quick.


The Lee-Enfield is my favorite bolt gun, smoothest and fastest bolt action out there, and the Indian Ishapore copies  are every bit as nice just not as attractive for the collector market.   Here in the US, sometimes if you're really lucky you can find Ishapore 7.62x51 Enfield's for around $300 +/-, came across a nice one back in May for $299...  but reluctantly passed on it.

'Tis a shame...'cause while I like #1/#4/#5- I'm not a fan of the 7.7x56mm (.303 Brit for Imperialists) round. I have my #1MkIII* that I have had forever but most range/hunting with LE is via 7.62 conversion very styled around a L42.

I wonder if the US & Canadian market for Indian I2A rifles & carbines would justify production being started for export?

I wish I could get a 7.62 conversion kit for the  No.4.  I have a 1918 No 1 MkIII*, a No 4 Mk 2 and a No 4 Mk 1 converted to a quasi No. 5.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

MOJONIXON posted:

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

 

Instead of those I'd take R.Moran's lead and grab one of those S&W SD9's (well he probably went SD40 I can't remember but you get the idea). 

 

Also, having followed this thread it very much reminds me of The Travel Gun thread: 

https://www.lightfighter.net/to...he-travel-gun?page=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

LobsterClaw207 posted:
MOJONIXON posted:

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

 

Instead of those I'd take R.Moran's lead and grab one of those S&W SD9's (well he probably went SD40 I can't remember but you get the idea). 

 

Also, having followed this thread it very much reminds me of The Travel Gun thread: 

https://www.lightfighter.net/to...he-travel-gun?page=1

 

 

Agreed especially fter reading Bobs input on the SD9 I'd probably go that route as well. I was just trying to get possibly useful info out there for all to see/digest. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Dorsai posted:

I wish I could get a 7.62 conversion kit for the  No.4.  I have a 1918 No 1 MkIII*, a No 4 Mk 2 and a No 4 Mk 1 converted to a quasi No. 5.

Barrel is merely $$$.  The issue is (a) that there are several ways of doing the conversion (bolt/ejector) & (b) obtaining the magazines to match your conversion.

The I2A mags seem to work in the #4 as well.

We picked up an SD40VE for my wife at Gander Mountain right after they opened up the new (now closed/closing) location by us. IIRC it was 219 ish after tax out the door. Just because the gun rags / gun counter guys don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't functional. 

She's had a couple malfunctions, but most were in the first 3-4 mags of cheapass whitebox ball breaking it in. I don't think she's had a malfunction that I'm aware of in the past year with it.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

MOJONIXON posted:

Cheap pistols out there right now, both not highly regarded but affordable. 

Defender Outdoors had the Diamondback DB9 for $185 and the gen 2 Taurus PT111 Millennium for $200. 

I know it's a Taurus but I've read more good things about the PT111 Millenniums, than bad. 

Surplus P63, P64, Makarov, and Beretta M9's can be had between $199 - $299

Personally I'd take any of them over the DB9 or PT111, but YMMV

Linz posted:

I wonder if the US & Canadian market for Indian I2A rifles & carbines would justify production being started for export?


I don't know, based on how high the prices keep climbing it seems there would be a market...

If they started production up again I'd love to see the following Ishapore rifles made and exported to the US; 7.62 No.4 MKII pattern rifle, L42a1 pattern rifle, a No.5 jungle carbine (but without the barrel & receiver cuts that caused so many problems with the originals), and the DeLise carbine (but with an improved/stronger extractor).

Looking for a cheap handgun?  A lot better than a Taurus?

https://www.gtdist.com/product...emi-auto-pistol.html

Department Trade In Smith & Wesson M&P9Used S&W M&P 9mm night sights, 3-17 round magazines, grip panels, and factory hard case. $299.95.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

I started the travel gun thread. Different need though sometimes a gun can fill both roles.  My travel gun is an 870P with a Choate folder at the moment,  this is 1 of my bro guns if necessary.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Dorsai posted:

Looking for a cheap handgun?  A lot better than a Taurus?

https://www.gtdist.com/product...emi-auto-pistol.html

Department Trade In Smith & Wesson M&P9Used S&W M&P 9mm night sights, 3-17 round magazines, grip panels, and factory hard case. $299.95.

Ding ding ding

----------------------------

"Good landing, good fight, and good luck" James M. Gavin 09Jul43

 "they say if it works, it's a good tactic...I say anything can work once" 

As to the notion of buying cheap guns as handouts; I wouldn't buy a gun I didn't intend or want to shoot myself.Seems a waste   for such  a low  probability use. I'd rather just buy myself  a nice gun for me.What exactly is the chain of responsibility when I hand over a weapon to cousin Clem  and he shoots the insurance adjuster.

Eat til you are tired sleep til you are hungry

 

And  Epstein didn't kill himself

I'm just going to ask it. Can anyone ever really have too many G-19's?

Wouldn't it be cool to have a bunch of guns that use the same magazines, holsters, sights, etc?  My thinking is kind of like Jack from the Survival Podcast says, it's for if times get tough or even if they don't. Every "prep" I have has a today for-real nature to it. My spare guns are for range fun, my generator is for camping, my spare propane bottles are so I don't have to run to the store when grilling and the primary tank runs down. 

Buy what you already use and buy accessories or spares as it becomes feasible. No need to have a ton of different guns without support gear for any of them. I learned this lesson after I lost all of my guns in a divorce (fuck that cunt) and had to start from scratch. Now I only buy multiples of what I already have for the most part. Boringly reliable...

I got an email that Aim Surplus had Glock 22 police trade ins for $300.   I'm sure other places are similar or soon will be.

Add one of the Glock brand belt slide holsters and their mag pouch for about 25 bucks and that is probably a rig that is better than a majority of gun owners would show up with.   I'd be tempted to load them with something like the 135 gr Border Patrol load to keep recoil down.

In the past I've ran into a couple of older 870 Wingmasters  cheap because they didn't have a vent rib,were full choked and not photogenic.  Solid slick guns after cleanup, shortening the barrel and adding a sling.

That's two gun and  extras for low price AR type money.

 

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

plus 1 on gear and using it. 

Pops taught me that camping gear is great for emergencies and from then on I always bought with that in mind. 

I just got some of these: http://stanley-pmi.com/store/s.../productID.324177300

with the stainless nestled cups for camping with the thought of using them for camping and shtf. 

Plus one on the glock 22 police trade ins...I was trying to sell my glock 22 and had a couple of buyers until that deal came up...I cant and don't want to beat that price...so, the glock 22 stays on as a family/bro gun

For me it would depend on the definition of, "Bro". I have some blood relatives that I wouldn't trust. And I have some acquaintances that I would trust with my life. 

I don't let many know that I have any extra guns or supplies. People talk. I can't stand the usual statement, "Well if thing ever got to the point where SHTF, I'll just come to your house." So imagine if these same people told others where to go if things ever got bad. You're house could easily become a prime target. These people would most likely not be welcome at my house, much less be given weapons. But trusted friends/relatives who may have lost their gear due to natural disasters. Or because of a natural/man made disaster are not able to get back to their home. These people are those who I think of when reading this topic. 

I am against the cheap quality AR's only because if the need exists to had out a Bro gun, then things are bad enough that the gun needs to be dependable. The Bro may be using your handout to protect you or your family.

I have a few extra Colt 6920's laying around that I bought in 2014-2015 with the expectation of Hillary winning the election.  When I bought them, I had no intent of flipping them. I wanted to put something back for kids and step-kids. Or at least that's what I told myself as I was buying new guns. To be honest, I like buying new guns...

But now the election is over and I'm stuck with these Colt 6920's as the market is so soft.  I refuse to sell them for what I would have to sell a used 6920 for (even though one is unfired and the rest only have one 30 rd mag through the gun). 

I don't really have a use for a 16" carbine with a fixed front sight either personally or professionally. All my work and personal guns have FF barrels, ect. If I could sell them at a reasonable price, I would.  But with the current market...

The recent round of hurricanes have made me think of the "Bro Gun" concept. My "extra" Colt 6920's have MagPul MOE SL furniture on them, and a sling. A red dot optic would be preferable, but I don't know that I want to throw more money into the concept.  I did install a Mag Pul cantilever picatinny rail to each so a light could be added. 

I can easily set aside 4-5 magazines per carbine along with ammunition and a basic cleaning kit and a means to carry the extra magazines.

Even without an optic, I feel that a basic 6920 with iron sights would still be an effective gun. Better than a sharp stick.

I have enough S&W M&P gen 1 and Glock 19/17 gen 3 9mm pistols sitting around that I could pair a 9mm with each carbine. 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

This probably will be shit on, it's a horrible gun, but it does work. 

I have a mosin nagant for this purpose, it was under $100 dollars and at the time the ammo for 440rds was $80 dollars in two sealed "spam cans". I will probably acquire a few more mosins for this purpose. they are not sexy, but 7.62x54R will do work and it's cheap. granted the berdan primed is what i speak off. i am aware of the corrision issue. If the gun after getting cleaned properly and sits in a safe FOREVER, and the spam canned stays sealed. throw in some stripper clips, with cheap cloth bandoleers.  I can outfit 10 people for about 1500. 

These guns are for non-shooters to have a gun(aunts, uncles, grandparents, people who don't believe in guns). most people know how to use a bolt action. 

nothing more nothing less, it's not sexy but it's simple, and effective. 

If you are a shooter, you should have a backup site, and come prepared with your own toys. 

 

 

"The facts, while interesting are irrelevant: It's not what you know that matters, it's what you don't know that tends to get people killed."

 

"Nobelesse Oblige"

I have a Mosin and a few other same generation rifles, mostly because i collect them.  In a pinch, they're a major upgrade over someone who shows up with their daily carry piece. I live on acres, a pistol won't even accurately reach the end of my driveway.  An AK or AR would be better, but only have a few to go around.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Beat Trash posted:
 People talk. I can't stand the usual statement, "Well if thing ever got to the point where SHTF, I'll just come to your house."

 

Anyone who suggests that to me gets told bluntly "If SHTF, I won't be there.  Go get your own"

Beat Trash posted:

People talk. I can't stand the usual statement, "Well if thing ever got to the point where SHTF, I'll just come to your house."

 

That would be a FANTASTIC way to get shot. If I want you to be at my place, I'll tell you. Otherwise its a free fire zone.

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

David Reeves posted:
Beat Trash posted:

People talk. I can't stand the usual statement, "Well if thing ever got to the point where SHTF, I'll just come to your house."

 

That would be a FANTASTIC way to get shot. If I want you to be at my place, I'll tell you. Otherwise its a free fire zone.

Totally agree.  If you do show up uninvited, the only thing sparing you is an offering of immense significance.  And I mean IMMENSE.  We’re talking The Kate in her Selene outfit carrying a case of Pappy Van Winkle....at minimum.

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IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

I AM GROOT.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

Linz posted:

I suppose M1 carbines are not a cheap, user friendly option?

When CMP had them for 500 bucks they would of been. As a bonus that is what they where designed for second line/non rifleman. I wish I had bought more than one.

Joined  4/5/03  Location Maine

sub posted:
Linz posted:

I suppose M1 carbines are not a cheap, user friendly option?

When CMP had them for 500 bucks they would of been. As a bonus that is what they where designed for second line/non rifleman. I wish I had bought more than one.

Has the US market swallowed all of them?

What about the modern versions?  Wasn't someone putting them out in pistol calibers?

 

These days you can get a good quality AR cheaper than an M1 carbine.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

MrMurphy posted:

These days you can get a good quality AR cheaper than an M1 carbine.

ARs are not legal in every state though.

---------------------------------

 

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Well... we know AR's aren't legal everywhere, and M1 Carbines are hard to find... here's something our Aussie Friends should  be able to use for a little while...

Image result for slingshot

------------------------------------- "A True Warrior knows neither Left or Right"  Looking for a doc who can fix my allergies.. Stupid People and IED's...

Attachments

Photos (1)
Linz posted:
sub posted:
Linz posted:

I suppose M1 carbines are not a cheap, user friendly option?

When CMP had them for 500 bucks they would of been. As a bonus that is what they where designed for second line/non rifleman. I wish I had bought more than one.

Has the US market swallowed all of them?

What about the modern versions?  Wasn't someone putting them out in pistol calibers?

 

Chiappa was making a 9mm M1 Carbine that accepts Beretta 92 mags.

"Enlisted men are stupid but they are sly & crafty and bear considerable watching."

Excerpt from the U.S. Army Officer's Manual 1884. 

 

Home: Anytown, USA

(22 Oct 17)

I got a good stash of ARs and handguns but I'd be hard pressed to need to loan to my friends. If their someone I trust they already have there own.  With that I have got a few in to having and shooting ARs, but they aren"t coming to me if in need of one now. Now if one of the ones I'd call a friend did have to I'd be able to and would.... but I can count my friends on one or both hands really. Two of them have more pro gun wives than you can believe.... lucky Guys.. ones wife bought hubby a Barrett. 

One of our LGS's had new Taurus 85s for $200, minus the $40 rebate, and the free year of NRA membership. ($35), or the equivalent of $125 out of pocket. I figure this is about as good as it gets for a loaner: easy to hide, easy to use, and minimal tears if it doesn't come back.

In the event of a major disaster,  for someone trained and trusted who just happens to not have a serious piece at hand....  I'd never give them a 2" .38. Shotguns from pawn shops are just as cheap and FAR more effective.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Considering the storms to the east...bump.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

MrMurphy posted:

In the event of a major disaster,  for someone trained and trusted who just happens to not have a serious piece at hand....  I'd never give them a 2" .38. Shotguns from pawn shops are just as cheap and FAR more effective.

Agreed. An old $250 870/ 500 series, and take a hacksaw to the barrel to about 20".

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

bestcounsel posted:

The new ruger pcc might fit the bill...especially if you rock a glock17/19

Curious to see how these will turn out. Certainly looks promising.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

The way I look at it = It doesn't matter to me if the people in my life are prepared or not. I know that when the time comes, I need them far more than they need me. I know it sounds contrary to what many like to proclaim "don't come to my house unless you bring your preps with you" - however, hard times is a team sport. And its a contact sport. You/We will need each other and if I happen to be the one thinking ahead, then I happen to be the one thinking ahead.

This does not mean I surround my family with know-nothing knuckleheads, but there are in-laws, family members, friends who are family who might not be as far along as my family is, but have tremendous value. We'll need each other far more than I need to "have been right". I prep rifles, kit, dry goods, sundries, etc knowing that the number of people in my household will double/triple and we'll need them all to put the homestead, protect ourselves, and put the pieces back together.

THEGODFATHER,

I agree with your thought process, provided I could trust these individuals enough to arm them. By trust, I refer to trust in their skill and mindset enough to arm them. And trust them enough that I do not have to feel my own weapon being turned against me. 

If  you trust these people, then I agree that hard times would be a team sport. 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 4-23-04                                          Location: SW Ohio

Along those lines, I’m in a similar situation. I have certain people tapped on the shoulder should anything happen. 

 

They’re not necessarily “prepared” as much as I may be, but they’re useful in various ways and I can trust them. 

=======================
Forward!
Where we are, where we belong, where we should be.

  

Location: Back in Bris-Vegas, wondering at the bright lights of the big smoke

sub posted:

CMP sold out a couple years ago. A company called Inland or Auto ordanance makes a repro model. No experance with it. It runs around $850. 

They've been repro'd since the 50's, when they started running out of wartime receivers to assemble into whole guns. Iver Johnson, Universal, Plainfield Machine Co, Rock Island, Springfield, just to name a few big ones. 6.1 million carbines made during the war, probably close to 2 million (according to the"War Baby" book series) made after the war by various people and companies. To top it off, other than the later production Universal carbines, and the odd caliber ones, all use GI spec or close to it for parts, much like ARs do now.

Carbines aren't super plentiful on the market right now, but they're still out there. Just scored a 60's Iver Johnson out of KC for $250. Barrel and receiver are new production, everything else is GI parts. Additionally I think they're squirreled away by grandpas the nation over to a higher degree than people give them credit for. They're handy little ranch rifles with zilch for recoil, being essentially the first purpose built pistol caliber PDW.

Learn how to talk and how to fight, if you can't do one you'll be doing a lot of the other.

Back when an SKS was a $200 proposition, it was the answer. If you really want loaner guns on hand, I'd get LE trade-ins that use the same mag as your primary platform (G19, G23 are pretty cheap), and some of the cheap "Sportical" ARs that run around 450-550.

 

These would also trade a lot better than some of the other options as they are recognizable brands and platforms. Makes the ammo piece easier as well. Entry ARs are basically as cheap as you can get any decent bolt gun these days. I'd stay away from .22LR, because you are really not going to have much effect on anything past 100m.

While i wouldn't prefer a .22 for the purpose, in an average city subdivision, a burst of .22s into a bad guy at 30-50 yards would certainly get their attention..

 

Not everyone can stockpile a safe full of spares, thus the intent of the thread was to think about just what you DO have on hand if you get unexpected reliable refugees to add to the sentry roster.

 

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Any recommendations for a chest rig to go with a loaner AR?  The Blue Force Ten Speed  looks like a winner at $80 on Optactical. I seems like it makes sense if I'm at the point of loaning a rifle out to have a chest rig, and a basic cleaning kit to go with it.

"Never underestimate the predictibility of stupidity" RIP SSG Brad King. KIA April 2, 2007.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surpl...0:g:6yoAAOSwbmdZfT0X

At $10 or less and good for AK or AR, it makes sense as a loaner.  If some dumbshit is so ill equipped he needs to borrow my rifle, I'm not going to spend a lot of money on to of the line gear.  It was good enough for the Wolverines, it's good enough for him.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Ground Pounder posted:

Any recommendations for a chest rig to go with a loaner AR?  The Blue Force Ten Speed  looks like a winner at $80 on Optactical. I seems like it makes sense if I'm at the point of loaning a rifle out to have a chest rig, and a basic cleaning kit to go with it.

I just Give them ol Alice.

Dorsai posted:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surpl...0:g:6yoAAOSwbmdZfT0X

At $10 or less and good for AK or AR, it makes sense as a loaner.  If some dumbshit is so ill equipped he needs to borrow my rifle, I'm not going to spend a lot of money on to of the line gear.  It was good enough for the Wolverines, it's good enough for him.

I’d take one of those for a “ just because” reason. Hard to read the ad though as it appears to be a China generated ad. Only 2 rigs left. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

Ground Pounder posted:

Any recommendations for a chest rig to go with a loaner AR?  The Blue Force Ten Speed  looks like a winner at $80 on Optactical. I seems like it makes sense if I'm at the point of loaning a rifle out to have a chest rig, and a basic cleaning kit to go with it.

Short of the chinese rig, you will not beat that price. I would buy now.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

MOJONIXON posted:
Dorsai posted:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surpl...0:g:6yoAAOSwbmdZfT0X

At $10 or less and good for AK or AR, it makes sense as a loaner.  If some dumbshit is so ill equipped he needs to borrow my rifle, I'm not going to spend a lot of money on to of the line gear.  It was good enough for the Wolverines, it's good enough for him.

I’d take one of those for a “ just because” reason. Hard to read the ad though as it appears to be a China generated ad. Only 2 rigs left. 

Just do a search on the type of rig and dozens of ads will pop up.  In this context, I like that rig the best.  The standard AK chest rig has 3 mag pockets, this has 4.  I think I bought four of them and have them set up for AKM's or AK74's.  Just grab the rifle and the chest rig with 4 mags and cleaning gear.  They aren't fast to use,  but neither are they complicated.  

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

High Cross posted:
David Reeves posted:

Well... we know AR's aren't legal everywhere, and M1 Carbines are hard to find... here's something our Aussie Friends should  be able to use for a little while...

Image result for slingshot

sling shots are a felony in New Jersey. No joke.

Get the Fuck out!

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

So when do rocks become felony items in NJ.  You know you can throw them and be deadly and in some more then 10 rocks can be found!

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“Speak softly and carry a big stick;  you will go far. “

 Theodore Roosevelt

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Joined: 29 May 2008          Location: AZ

I actually have some experience training people with "hand out" guns

There was a rash of break ins and robberies and drug shootings a few years back at my college in Southern Indiana back when the whole opoid crisis made a perfect storm with the high level of meth down there.


I had 3 of my friends call me and ask "I need to get a gun what do I do" and I walked them through getting a cheap Chinese knock off pump gun, and then took them to my gun club and gave them a half days instruction.  I already shot skeet with 2 of them and 1 of them had been hunting so they new the basics.   

The biggest things I found being an issue were recoil control and manipulation.  With proper body position/stance and even a basic use of firearms getting hits was not an issue even with shooting from the hip.  Though giving them snap caps really was useful in getting them trained up in manipulation as well as teaching them push pull and to lean into the gun to control recoil

Something else I did to help teach them to defend themselves and their homes was force on force with airsoft guns teaching them what the angles would be in their house from the door and from the bedroom and to figure out what is the best place to get cover and concealment, as well as to help teach basic weapons handling/close in marksmanship.  I didn't teach them to run around like rambo, but if someone was trying to kick in the door where was the best place to post up with a clear shot to the door and concealment/cover, and also the best place to cover the door from the bedroom.

I really do think airsoft is an under-rated tool here to teach people safe weapons handling, manipulation, and basic force on force.

Something I did that was really helpful in this situation and would be helpful if your serious about hand-out guns it to do some firearms instruction, even if only volunteer.  I did some work helping a friend set up and instruct some intro to handgun classes, and I also got the materials and did the coursework on being a NRA Personal Defense in the home but I never did get the cert.

Just having that experience was huge in being able to my friends trained up.  And honestly with how much the guys here at LFer know about firearms and whatnot it would not be a bad idea to even volunteer as an instructor to gain the skills in how to teach and disseminate knowledge about shooting and the 2nd amendment

 

2 places you can volunteer to help out train people is 1. Students for Concealed Carry at your local College.   Im sure the local president would be happy to have you take some people out to the range or give a presentation. 2 The collegiate shooting sports initiative.  It would be a great place to get some young pro 2nd A college students out and teach them how to be safe and use a gun and then get them out to shoot USPSA or two gun.  It would be a great way to give back, learn how to train people, and also ensure that the younger generation still protects the 2nd Amendment-

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

You didn't bother reading the initial post.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

MrMurphy posted:

You didn't bother reading the initial post.

That and a lot of instructing and F on F training etc. but “didn’t get the cert.” I’m wondering what his qualifications to be an instructor are. None are listed. 

Mojo/Mark
__________________________
Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
__________________________
You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
__________________________

Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

MOJONIXON posted:
MrMurphy posted:

You didn't bother reading the initial post.

That and a lot of instructing and F on F training etc. but “didn’t get the cert.” I’m wondering what his qualifications to be an instructor are. None are listed. 

Thats the thing, I really at the time was just a college student and just liked to shoot, im not a LE or Mil guy and I helped out some of my friends.  I shoot USPSA and got the course materials and did some one on one work with the president of my gun club who is a instructor, but I realized it isn't my lane being a regular guy with my present life experience and I didn't have the time graduating college or working now 60 hours a week to do so.

Eventually I would like to teach CCW/Self defense from the perspective of "By a everyday Civilian concealed carry guy for the everyday guy" but I need to learn and train alot more and have more life experience before doing so

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

Lowspeed, your lane is so far to the right, it's not even on the same fucking highway. 

Stop pimping your organization in every thread. 

Stop buying cheap pieces of shit then retroactively trying to justify it here. 

 

Save your college boy pennies, go to a professional training course or three, THEN we may talk. 

 

Until then, as always on LF read more, post less. 

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

yakc130 posted:
High Cross posted:
David Reeves posted:

Well... we know AR's aren't legal everywhere, and M1 Carbines are hard to find... here's something our Aussie Friends should  be able to use for a little while...

Image result for slingshot

sling shots are a felony in New Jersey. No joke.

Get the Fuck out!

He's not lying.

New Jersey Statute 2C:39-3. Prohibited Weapons and Devices.

e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

__________________________________
"Experienced cops don't have 'hunches'. They have superior observational and analytical skills which allow them to make the connection between otherwise innocuous facts, and take appropriate action to assess that perception."

~ Doug Mitchell

 

Life is Good!


Joined: 03/08/2008     Location: Sandy Hook, NJ

And here's a surprise - MA General Laws, Chapter 269 Section 12 (not only sling shots, but slung shots too )

Section 12. Whoever manufactures or causes to be manufactured, or sells or exposes for sale, an instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as a dirk knife, a switch knife or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, slung shot, sling shot, bean blower, sword cane, pistol cane, bludgeon, blackjack, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or metallic knuckles or knuckles of any other substance which could be put to the same use and with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than six months; provided, however, that sling shots may be manufactured and sold to clubs or associations conducting sporting events where such sling shots are used.

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The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Bean blowers. ??? Straws and lungs?

Mojo/Mark
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Yo homey, is that my briefcase...?
Vincent from "Collateral"
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You want the good life, you break your back, you snap your fingers, you snap your neck... Prong/Demon Hunter
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Because...I Can. 


Joined: 9/30/09
Location: Northern Nevada (Reno/Sparks)

No sling shots?   Really? 

Was it really that long ago when a kid could save up money from mowing the neighbors' yards and could buy one out of the back of a comic book with a set of x-ray glasses?

 And what happens when a kid breaks off a y shaped branch and uses a 6" pocket knife to manufacture a slingshot?

MrMurphy posted:

Lowspeed, your lane is so far to the right, it's not even on the same fucking highway. 

Stop pimping your organization in every thread. 

Stop buying cheap pieces of shit then retroactively trying to justify it here. 

 

Save your college boy pennies, go to a professional training course or three, THEN we may talk. 

 

Until then, as always on LF read more, post less. 

Lurking more is always a good thing. I figure I am just do damn bored at work and have been shitposting a bit.

I never bought a bersa, I just wanted to see what someone saw from it who actually used it.

And I have taken some training and plan on taking more.

I in the next year or two will take MAG-40, get out to Ohio and take one of Varg Freeborn's classes and in 2019 take ECQC with shivworks.  I plan on being a student of civilian self defense and want to keep a focus on that. 

Sorry for talking about Student's for Concealed carry.  IDK being someone who doesn't live in the industry/tactical/LE/Military world and having been in more liberal places I feel alot more urgency in the political side of things.  I figure it must be different and somewhat annoying for alot of you guys here.

Lowspeed-High Drag/Armchair General and Keyboard /k/ommando

Sorry for the necropost, however I didn't want to start a new thread about the same subject matter. CDNN Investments is selling the Walther Creed 9mm for $269 +$4.99 shipping out the door. Very affordable service caliber semi-auto pistol for not much more than the aforementioned Taurus 85.

cdnnsports.com/walther-creed-9mm.html#.W-4bCmhKi00

"Enlisted men are stupid but they are sly & crafty and bear considerable watching."

Excerpt from the U.S. Army Officer's Manual 1884. 

 

Home: Anytown, USA

Bump for relevancy.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Well, my loaner "Bro guns" are no more.  I've sold them all,  except for one, along with other "meh guns" to streamline and thin out the herd.  Ive kept the one as "trade gun" and will always have one gun that I'll keep as "pot sweetener" to close a deal on something I really want or to offset a larger cash outlay. What I have done, is to introduce folks to firearms and shooting by taking them to a range. A few have decided its time to take there own protection, to an extent, into there own hands. A few more just want to have a fun hobby which is cool too! IMHO,  I think thats better than loaning a shotty out during an iffy time. 

My how times have changed. 

Mosins are now almost as much as Palmetto AR kits.

I think in this day in age IMHO, it's up to the individual to have their own kit. 

It's too cost prohibitive to just willy nilly stockpile.  Either the person is equally invested or not. 

The money is better spent on more ammo and training(especially medical) on your family and yourself.

 

 

 

"The facts, while interesting are irrelevant: It's not what you know that matters, it's what you don't know that tends to get people killed."

 

"Nobelesse Oblige"

The intent was never to randomly loan out guns. It was to keep an eye on what you have in the event during a disaster, a trusted person, possibly already armed but with a small CCW piece, etc, could get handed to assist.

Not Free Mosins For the Neighborhood,  more of your bro from Iraq got his house destroyed and all he had on him was a J frame. Here's the spare 870/levergun/AR whatever,  stand a watch till we can dig your safe out.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

MrMurphy posted:

The intent was never to randomly loan out guns. It was to keep an eye on what you have in the event during a disaster, a trusted person, possibly already armed but with a small CCW piece, etc, could get handed to assist.

Not Free Mosins For the Neighborhood,  more of your bro from Iraq got his house destroyed and all he had on him was a J frame. Here's the spare 870/levergun/AR whatever,  stand a watch till we can dig your safe out.

It's never been for the neighborhood. It was for my extended family("bro", uncle, cousin, etc.) that lives in the region.

I was commenting on the cost of gun ownership in general. Virginia where I live has uncertain gun ownership future. I may only be allowed a mosin, and the cost is equivalent to a palmetto AR. 

This is where I am coming from. Someone who legally may only be allowed to use a mosin or a 6 shot revolver in the future. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The facts, while interesting are irrelevant: It's not what you know that matters, it's what you don't know that tends to get people killed."

 

"Nobelesse Oblige"

Brock01 posted:

Idk about you all, but there is a very small number of people I would consider a "bro".

Agreed, while I could outfit a scout platoon with ar15s, I don't think I know that many people around here I'd be willing to loan a rifle to and most of em have their own gear.

If ya'all don't mind if I weigh in, on the subject of people I trust with my spare rifle - we are having this discussion under one set of circumstances, but about a wholly different set of 'circumstances'. The entire concept of the bro gun isn't for the people in your life now, the point is are you prepared for an unknown future; be it temporary displeasure because of regional calamity, or a more sporty longer-term upheaval most often associated with places other than here or in novels about long term power failure. Both will require new (and perhaps strange) bedfellows.

The people you will need when times are hard and circumstances are much more dire than our present Dancing with the Stars reality will come from walks of life you don't likely spend much time with now. When the time comes, there will be all sorts of people you are going to wish were kitted up, but not enough kit to go 'round. ... The dentist who owns no guns now, but is a good human and lives next door - you talk to him 3 times a year now ... The uncle you haven't seen 2 years, but when he finally makes it out of wherever he is now, he might be there with only the shirt on his back. Are you ready for them?

Lightfighter posted:

... Both will require new (and perhaps strange) bedfellows....

This.

Either because of skills or unskilled but willing.

It doesn't take long to totally exhaust a person physically and psychologically under continuous demands.  Delegation and specialization is your friend. 

 

 

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

Lightfighter posted:
... Are you ready for them?

Hit the nail on the head. One of the reasons why I try to have a holster for every handgun and a sling for every rifle, even if they’re ones I would not normally consider carrying. The  oddball Tokarev pistol, the plinker 10/22, etc.

Joined: 12/2009
Location: California, Republic of

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