quote:
On another note, I'm looking forward to my Drac. It'll be hard to beat the atom LT but maybe the two together will be a new favorite.



They go together like sex and whipped cream.

Ek

Personally, I'm interested in keeping other people from building Utopia, because the more you believe you can create heaven on earth the more likely you are to set up guillotines in the public square to hasten the process. -- James Lileks

"Be the lack of Bullshit you wish to see in the world around you."

Joined: 8/12/05 6:56 PM                        Location: Oklahoma (not by choice)

I just received the new Bravo Jacket (revised). No pockets on the sleeves (con for me), little different cut for mobility (plus) and some new material sewn in cuff that is more snug making difficult to get hands in and out of if you have very large hands (con)

I must say I am a little disappointed. Increase in price, two less zippered pockets, cuffs could easily have been velcro on this update to accommodate people of all hand sizes . I think the fabric is a little different as well. Oh made in China as well.
To my knowledge only the BERRY compliant items are made in USA/Canada. I was at Western Canada's largest LEAF dealer and every garment on the rack was made outside of North America except the Hardshells (Canada).

I'm debating another purchase aside from another hoodie and maybe another ATOM. Should I go Bravo or Drac?

Duke how long have you had all of your ATOMS? I'm curious to the life span and the wash cycles
I had the same question. Decided to go with the drac. Your best bet is to figure out exactly what kind of soft shell you want. All differences aside, the bravo is lined with a warming barrier as the drac is not. For me, I already have a lined soft shell and wanted something without so that I could wear a soft shell and adjust the warmth myself using layers. I find that my lined soft shell becomes an issue during high activity. Simply put, it gets way too hot. Hope that helps. My drac just shipped so I can give you more feedback if you want when it arrives.

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is for Good Men to Do Nothing."-Edmund Burke

I could have this all wrong, but I thought that you wouldn't want to combine two softshells (like the Atom LT and the Drac/Bravo) together? Doesn't that compromise their individual properties? Seems to make a lot more sense to start with a solid base layer, add the softshell and then a hard shell if necessary. I think Logos cautioned against a softshell over an Atom LT because it would negate the jacket's ability to retain warmth.

Pat
Currently have a Rho and Atom LT top, but I've been eyeing the Atom AR and Naga Hoodie for missions as the temperature begins to drop at night here in RC-East. I don't know if I can swing both right now, but I am leaning toward the Naga hoodie in conjunction with the issues wind shirt. What are y'all's thoughts? We are trying to order the Atom AR jackets for the boys to throw on over their kit in the PB, but at this rate I'm not seeing it. Our 10 liners for more Crye tops and pants will probably have to be approved by Jesus.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's time to prove to your friends that you're worth a damn, and sometimes that means dying, and sometimes that means killing a whole lot of people." -Clive Owen - Sin City

Just received my DRAC XL and it's going back. I'm 6'5 225. Sleeve length is perfect but the body is short and fits like a tent.

I saw on one site that the Bravo has an "athletic cut" which I assume means leaner. But it is any longer in the body?

I have the Naga Hoody in XL and it is a perfect fit on me.
quote:
Originally posted by dwestfall:
Just received my DRAC XL and it's going back. I'm 6'5 225. Sleeve length is perfect but the body is short and fits like a tent.

I saw on one site that the Bravo has an "athletic cut" which I assume means leaner. But it is any longer in the body?

I have the Naga Hoody in XL and it is a perfect fit on me.


Here's Arc'teryx's sizing chart:
http://www.arcteryx.com/sizing-charts.aspx?EN

As shown, fit depends on the individual garment. An 'athletic' fit is actually cut more generously than a 'trim' fit.

Pat
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_E:
I could have this all wrong, but I thought that you wouldn't want to combine two softshells (like the Atom LT and the Drac/Bravo) together? Doesn't that compromise their individual properties? Seems to make a lot more sense to start with a solid base layer, add the softshell and then a hard shell if necessary. I think Logos cautioned against a softshell over an Atom LT because it would negate the jacket's ability to retain warmth.

Pat


The Naga is a great layer. That plus a wraith, Squamish, ALPHA-series will get you far. Again, to reiterate what Logos said to me a while back; ATOM and bravo are both mid-layers.

An ATOM under a Combat is excellent, as well as a Naga under a combat. (I've done both).

I hope that helps. I'm not an authority, I just have all the above, and Logos is spot-on in how they should and do work together.
------------------------------

"Its not about shooting, its about fighting with a gun." -Pat Rogers


The answer to 1984 is 1776.

"I prefer evil sits in daylight for all to see rather than be hidden, forgotten about and possibly repeated." -Consigliere
quote:
Originally posted by Dog Off Leash:

Just really wish it came in black.


You and me both, brother. Lots of free money to be had from people who love the Bird but cant/dont want to wear Croc/Multicam.

 

----

"The thing everyone forgets about the Chinese is that they work on a 50-100 year master plan. Our best planning here goes out maybe a year or two."

quote:
Originally posted by Pat_E:
Roger that. What WOULD you wear under it, if you we're to wear something? Performance T, maybe?
Pat


I wear a performance t-shirt, ie Patagonia Capilene 1 or 2. Even better are merino wool 1 or 2, also from Patagonia.

If you wanted to stick with Arc, pick up one of their Phase tops in whatever weight would best match your needs. I don't have any experience with them though, so I won't comment.
quote:
Originally posted by Pat_E:
Roger that. What WOULD you wear under it, if you we're to wear something? Performance T, maybe?
Pat


I like the arc EON merino shirts, or the bodyfit merino shirts from icebreaker

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

quote:
Originally posted by Nathenzo:
Todd762- If your product has a 'Made in China' tag in it; it's likely a fake.


Not sure about the Bravo, but just to let folks know:

My Naga was made in El Salvadore.

My Drac was made in China.

Both are tagged as such and both were purchased direct via LEAF.
A good base layer is what I'd wear under the Naga - what in particular being determined by weather and whatnot; for me, intending to run the Naga this winter during training, it'll be something slim fitting and sweat wicking more then loose and insulating. The fit of the hoodie and my intended use for it seem best served that way.

Jules

quote:
Originally posted by Runcible:
A good base layer is what I'd wear under the Naga - what in particular being determined by weather and whatnot; for me, intending to run the Naga this winter during training, it'll be something slim fitting and sweat wicking more then loose and insulating. The fit of the hoodie and my intended use for it seem best served that way.


That's what I've had in mind. Depending on conditions, I was thinking a performance T or a LS base layer of some sort. I have stuff from Mountain Hardware and Arc'teryx (Rho LTW) for that purpose. All of them are very thin, and the LS stuff is merino wool.

Now to get the whole Naga sizing thing down...

Pat
quote:
Originally posted by NaOH:
Tall sizes. You need tall sizes.


YES. The sizes to me are very American (duh), I've had the same thing with other American stuff such as patagonia etc, I'm thinking that maybe the average American is built 'stockier' (I'm not saying fatter. PLEASE don't take this the wrong way my American brothers!) than us euro-thrash?

Oden! Guide our ships, Our axes, spears and swords. Guide us through storms that whip And in brutal war

No need to apologize Shaggy, the US is getting fatter by the day. It's ridiculous. Fat kids were rare when I grew up.

Personally, I love the fit of Arc'teryx clothes, and I'm 6 feet (182.88cm) tall. I think a lot of the climber types that formed the original core of Arc'teryx's customer base are shorter and slimmer.
Pat
quote:
Originally posted by dwestfall:
Just received my DRAC XL and it's going back. I'm 6'5 225. Sleeve length is perfect but the body is short and fits like a tent.

I have the Naga Hoody in XL and it is a perfect fit on me.


I'm 6' 3" 230 and I had the same issue. Mine went back too. I'll try the Combat jacket but I'd like grey.
The only thing I'd change about the LEAF program is the return policy. The sizing on some things are predictable and very consistent but others (read:'Naga') appear to be very different. Giving guys a once-in-a-while chance to return something that was selected in good faith, but simply does NOT fit would be a big help.

Pat
OK, so what IS wrong with the naga sizing?
I'm a medium in all other LEAF...should I be getting a naga small? or large?

_____________________________________________________________

"You see, that's the difference between you soldiers and us French expats, you run towards the sound of gunfire...we just close our blinds." Herve LANCIEN, 2012.

_____________________________________________________________

quote:
Originally posted by nza:
OK, so what IS wrong with the naga sizing?
I'm a medium in all other LEAF...should I be getting a naga small? or large?


There is nothing wrong with it.

If you want to wear it as an outer layer like a sweatshirt, order a size up.

If you're going to use it as it was designed (heavy base layer/light mid-layer) order your normal size. It is slim fitting.

Personally I went up a size and am happy I did so, as have others I know. I can wear it in a casual setting as well as in the field.
I ordered the same size as my undershirts and concealment shirts.

You're probably going to have some excess sleeve length if you want to wear one more loosely, and size up to do so.

I've only met one guy I think could CCW under it... I sure as heck can't.

But: worn with an undershirt, with a permitting softshell vest over it, en route to a training venue during colder days? Yessir.

Jules

Any Naga owners out there with about a 44.5" chest/35" sleeve?
The Arc'teryx customer support guy who addressed my sizing concerns recommended an XL, but also mentioned that the Naga is a 'trim fit' piece, the chest size for which STARTS at 46". This just sounds too big/baggy to me. Anybody with those dimensions that can give some feedback?
Thanks,
Pat
Got a XL Gamma LT today, I think that's the non-LEAF equivalent of the Combat Jacket, minus the patch panels on the sleeves. The Gamma LT does come in grey.

Very impressed, the fit is perfect for me @ 6'5" 225, 36/37 sleeve. Not a tent, and long enough that I've got 2" of jacket below a Brokos belt. The Naga hoody is a perfect combo under it. Not sure how an Atom will work, seems like it might be a tight fit.

quote:
Originally posted by NaOH:
quote:
Originally posted by dwestfall:
Just received my DRAC XL and it's going back. I'm 6'5 225. Sleeve length is perfect but the body is short and fits like a tent.

I have the Naga Hoody in XL and it is a perfect fit on me.


I'm 6' 3" 230 and I had the same issue. Mine went back too. I'll try the Combat jacket but I'd like grey.
Can the ATOM LT pullover be tucked into pants? Is it designed for that? I was thinking I could wear that as a layer under my uniform shirt. Up here in WI it's going to start getting wicked cold...and I'm a bitch and hate the cold.

------------------------------------------------------

* Eric

 

We must be able to apply the appropriate degree of force and discrimination, demonstrating a complete businesslike attention to detail; and if necessary, we must be able to kill with ruthless efficiency. -- MSG Paul Howe

 

Joined: 9/27/05              Location:  WI

quote:
Originally posted by FSP90:
Can the ATOM LT pullover be tucked into pants? Is it designed for that? I was thinking I could wear that as a layer under my uniform shirt. Up here in WI it's going to start getting wicked cold...and I'm a bitch and hate the cold.


If your pants are sized large enough, yes.

__________________________

"Have a vision not clouded by fear." A Cherokee proverb "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." Socrates

 

Joined: 2005                                Location: Georgia

quote:
Originally posted by Tracker6:
quote:
Originally posted by FSP90:
Can the ATOM LT pullover be tucked into pants? Is it designed for that? I was thinking I could wear that as a layer under my uniform shirt. Up here in WI it's going to start getting wicked cold...and I'm a bitch and hate the cold.


Great news. Thank you!

If your pants are sized large enough, yes.

------------------------------------------------------

* Eric

 

We must be able to apply the appropriate degree of force and discrimination, demonstrating a complete businesslike attention to detail; and if necessary, we must be able to kill with ruthless efficiency. -- MSG Paul Howe

 

Joined: 9/27/05              Location:  WI

I have an Arcteryx LEAF Alpha Lt jacket that now has a hole in the sleeve due to scuffling with a suspect. The hole is the size of a quarter.


The hole is in no way due to poor quality on the jacket's part. This jacket is a great piece of kit. I simply exceeded its design speed limit putting the bam-a-lam on a ne'er-do-well. It seems that a substantial amount of man, anger and asphalt is sufficient to grind a hole in the ProShell.

I called up Arcteryx and 5 minutes of conversation with an excellent customer service rep I have a patch kit inbound.

Thank you Dirty Bird!
quote:
Originally posted by WoodlandSOU:
quote:
Originally posted by nza:
OK, so what IS wrong with the naga sizing?
I'm a medium in all other LEAF...should I be getting a naga small? or large?


There is nothing wrong with it.

If you want to wear it as an outer layer like a sweatshirt, order a size up.

If you're going to use it as it was designed (heavy base layer/light mid-layer) order your normal size. It is slim fitting.

Personally I went up a size and am happy I did so, as have others I know. I can wear it in a casual setting as well as in the field.

I stuck with my original sizing of medium, and yes it is body hugging, so if you're not "fit" your muffin top will show. not a big deal for me. its definitely warm for early morning jogs in 0 degree weather. I haven't tested to see if there is any dwr. If there isn't I'll probably just wash some into it the next time I do a dwr restore on my other things.

_____________________________________________________________

"You see, that's the difference between you soldiers and us French expats, you run towards the sound of gunfire...we just close our blinds." Herve LANCIEN, 2012.

_____________________________________________________________

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