The future of Arc'teryx LEAF

I second pit zips in the bravo, and a stow-able hood on it would be great too, along with a LEAF hyllus.

How about a working glove similar to the rivet AR i.e. no insulation - that is hardened up a little for stand alone field use w/ good dexterity, feel, and durability and not designed as a layering glove.
I'd also like to see more colors. Not all LEAF-types are on tactical teams or war-zones. Some of us can't wear multicam to work, and crocodile makes us stand out as well. I'm currently assigned to a central European post, and black or navy would blend in a lot more than other colors.[/QUOTE]

+1.... I like your gear the best but have to wear other companies when I want to be a little more low key. Yes others have pointed out your civ equiv. line, but without discussing it too much....maybe the LEAF (mil/le) Direct program could include the civilian line also. I guess this is input aimed more toward the company itself then the LEAF line, but just giving my $.02.

 “Have your instructors taught you why the Spartans excuse without penalty the warrior who loses his helmet or breastplate in battle but punish with loss of all citizenship rights the man who discards his shield? Because a warrior carries helmet and breastplate for his own protection, but his shield for the safety of the whole line” – Gates of Fire “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Nietzsche

quote:
Originally posted by logos:
All,
The purpose of LEAF is to provide the best possible gear for the guy in harms way. We actively seek to discourage people who are not armed professional form buying LEAF product because it reduces our ability to serve the good guys.
No matter how aggressively we build we end up having to tell some unit that we won't have what they need in time for their deployment. That is a awful turn of events and a situation I do everything in my power to avoid. If you are NOT police or military please DON'T buy LEAF: we make thousands of other products just for you: please leave the LEAF stuff for the guys with their life on the line.
I know this is an odd way for a manufacture to act but we really are in this business for the soldiers and police, not for the revenue.


Understood.

On the LEAF website for each product, could you place link to the civilian equivalent product? And add some 'LEAFish' colors to those products? Maybe that will take some pressure off of the LEAF line as those of us who are former .mil, LEO, etc. that prefer more subdued colors can still fill our needs.

Tenui Nec Dimittam

 

"Ideals are peaceful.  History is violent"   -Wardaddy, Fury

 

Joined: 8/5/07         Location: Chester County, PA

I will also second what sawtooth said about packs. LEAF's pack selection is either laptop travel packs or a large expedition size pack. It would be nice to have additional packs in the smaller range. I was also excitedly looking forward to the mystery ranch spartan, and bummed to hear from sawtooth they may not make it.
For the LE side of LEAF two thoughts ... include a green somewhere between OD and ranger green given that a fair amount 'tactical' LE have gone to that color and crocodile isn't always compatible in the eyes of the admin. Also, I prefer the fuller cut towards the bottom of the combat jacket for concealing items/objects on the belt when not in uniform.

Thank you for asking for input!
quote:
Originally posted by rgrwilcox:
Offer "No shoulder velcro" as an option on the jackets that have shoulder velcro.


Can I ask why? Sorry for all the questions, but we can't just change things without some sort of rational.

"a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." - Max Webber from Politics as a Vocation

quote:
Originally posted by nza:
an additional piece of velcro tape for name tag?
I find the cut of the alpha perfect for accessing holster and other items off the belt. However the combat jacket is longer, and i have to either tuck into my pants, or lift the jacket up each time I holster/reholster. cut them like an inverse U-shape on the sides?

the squamish hoodie in LEAF colours would be ideal.
Comming, Fall 2011, caled the Wraith. Also in white to be used as overwhites.
Keep or look for improvements where pockets are still accessible when wearing knuckled gloves. Inside main pockets perhaps have compartmentalized inner zip pockets. say to keep items like lighter, smokes, chew, gum handy and snug while not bouncing around...

For the pants, is there a way to make a sort of and elasitisized liner, that can tuck into the boot, while, the outer pant leg remains over the boot. Kind of like snowboard pants. Help to keep the sand and crap from slipping in. The liner can be sepearted with snap buttons, much like the snowboard pants, so that it is still relative easy to take pants off while wearing boots. Have you seen the new Sphinx, Gryphon and Talos? They all have intgrated gaiters.

"a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." - Max Webber from Politics as a Vocation

[
On the LEAF website for each product, could you place link to the civilian equivalent product? And add some 'LEAFish' colors to those products? Maybe that will take some pressure off of the LEAF line as those of us who are former .mil, LEO, etc. that prefer more subdued colors can still fill our needs.[/QUOTE]

Good idea, we'll look into it.

"a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." - Max Webber from Politics as a Vocation

quote:
Originally posted by logos:
Have you seen the new Sphinx, Gryphon and Talos? They all have intgrated gaiters.


Unfortunatley I have not. I have already used up my clothing allowance, so have not taken a closer look at those new items. Plus there is no LEAF showroom in Nanaimo. Seems like whenever I go to Vancouver I'm only harbour air for the day. Or in transit to elsewears, but one of these days, I will take you up on your offer to visit. i'm heading back overseas come mid May, and again, I won't have a chance to visit the store. BOLLOCKS>

good to know about the squamish hoody.

_____________________________________________________________

"You see, that's the difference between you soldiers and us French expats, you run towards the sound of gunfire...we just close our blinds." Herve LANCIEN, 2012.

_____________________________________________________________

quote:
Originally posted by logos:
quote:
Originally posted by rgrwilcox:
Offer "No shoulder velcro" as an option on the jackets that have shoulder velcro.


Can I ask why? Sorry for all the questions, but we can't just change things without some sort of rational.


I can't answer for rgrwilcox but I listed the same request. There is a need to blend in at times for the LE mission and velcro on the sleeves screams "COP".

Lynn

1911 45 Auto "World's Finest Close Quarters Combat Weapon", Ken Hackathorn

It would be great to see pants that are sized S,M,L,XL to also have a short, regular and long option for length. Having the knee pad be significantly off the knee is not helpful.

If the LEAF line is for shooters only, then I agree that offering similar subdued civilian products is a good idea. Those working in inhospitable conditions can use good clothing, but the bright colors associated with much of the civilian line are not acceptable.

Regards,
Doc

Specialist in High Velocity Acupuncture and Acute Lead Poisoning

quote:
Originally posted by hk24:
I can't answer for rgrwilcox but I listed the same request. There is a need to blend in at times for the LE mission and velcro on the sleeves screams "COP".

Lynn
While I've never been to the US or seen undercover cops there, Norwegian undercover cops can be spotted from miles away, and they mostly wear civilian brand clothing (like Bergans and Norrøna). It's not your clothing that gives you away, it's the over-all impression of you and your posture.

To answer logos regarding price, here in Norway the LEAF line is priced among the top-tier outdoor brands (like Bergans and Norrøna). Which I think is perfectly fine, as the bird is also among the top brands. This might only apply to Norway and the price Norwegian dealers have.
Folks,
Let keep all discussion of low profile wear and gear off this thread.

"a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." - Max Webber from Politics as a Vocation

quote:
Originally posted by hk24:
quote:
Originally posted by logos:
quote:
Originally posted by rgrwilcox:
Offer "No shoulder velcro" as an option on the jackets that have shoulder velcro.


Can I ask why? Sorry for all the questions, but we can't just change things without some sort of rational.


I can't answer for rgrwilcox but I listed the same request. There is a need to blend in at times for the LE mission and velcro on the sleeves screams "COP".

Lynn


I am not LOGOs obviously but from the perspective of someone in the gear industry that has to deal with SKUs and stock it is easy for this sort of detail to become difficult to manage. Since each jacket is not made to order (that would increase lead times and decrease efficiency of production) they have to come up with another model number basically for the jacket with no velcro. Put that across four or five sizes and you have created a sizable dent in production output for the difference of a 4x4" piece of velcro.

Just something to consider, and it may not be an issue to Arcteryx but when I look at products that I work on I try to consider the cost/benefit ratio to the customer and the ability to have what the customer needs on the shelf. It is a balancing act.
A nice remedy to that might be offering as a standard option with all velcro sleeve garments two arc'teryx bird patches with matching color backgrounds and sizes. It probably wouldn't be cost prohibitive, would add a nice marketing touch to the product, and would probably help those garments to look a bit more outdoorish when low profile is needed.

Back on topic, I'd love to see:
-merino wool articulated balaclavas for warmth and FR protection
-gaiters for those times you don't wear pants with DWR finnish.
-Shooters gloves. I haven't tried the complete LEAF glove line but the few I've seen or tried weren't exactly trigger friendly, which I find odd for that market. I understand that insulation and dexterity usualy work against each other, but I would enjoy some specific mapping on the trigger finger. On the glove subject also, more camo/color options than just black.
-Black option on all the hybrid line. Like it's been said before, black is often the only alternative we LE types have.
-As for FR, from my small experience it's not important until something bad happens. A do-it-all DWR-breathable-FR garment would be nice as long as it performs the same as non FR ones and doesn't impact too much the price tag. Obviously I'm day dreaming right now but there's some interesting materials coming from the industry (i.e. Gore) that might fit the bill in the near future, so I hope you'll consider it at some point.

That's all I got right now

NO MA'AM rule #2: It is wrong to be french When an episode of Walker Texas Ranger was aired in France, the French surrendered to Chuck Norris just to be on the safe side.

FR will at least double the price of the garments. (twice the fabric cost + a dedicated production line for ISO certification) Still interested?

On the Velcro thing, if you don't want velco
On you Gore-Tex jacket what wrong with an Alpha SV from REI? Price?

"a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." - Max Webber from Politics as a Vocation

Logos,

I've sent you most of my thoughts/ideas directly, but I wanted to add to the wishlist.

I want to see the end all, be all lightweight glove. Highly articluated and breathable. Durable. Multicam. Basically a dirty bird version of the Camelback vent glove.

Thank you clothing Santa,
Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by logos:
Still interested?

Obviously not. I just hope that at some point the process and bulk prices will allow for something FR to happen with your company. Thanks for the interesting insight as far as costs.

quote:
Originally posted by logos:
On the Velcro thing, if you don't want velco
On you Gore-Tex jacket what wrong with an Alpha SV from REI? Price?

It's not wanting it or not. I have a use for the velcros on my alpha. But that's not always the case, especially in civies... I'd rather have a nice matching piece of cloth to hide them than buy another alpha altogether. But then again I'm cheap... Wink

NO MA'AM rule #2: It is wrong to be french When an episode of Walker Texas Ranger was aired in France, the French surrendered to Chuck Norris just to be on the safe side.

quote:
Originally posted by M4Guru:
I know we talk about this all the time, but for anyone else at the Bird reading it:

1: Offer long sizes: A lot of us are 34" waist, 34" inseam

2: Better closure on the stowable Gryphon hood


Agreed. im a 34x34 as well.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-We are the sheepdogs, bad people looking out for the good people by killing worse people
-Don't get PTSD, Give PTSD. Make the taliban wake up screaming in the night because he fears Canadians are coming to Kill him.

-Location - Canada - Joined - 2006MAR19

quote:
Originally posted by M4Guru:
I know we talk about this all the time, but for anyone else at the Bird reading it:

1: Offer long sizes: A lot of us are 34" waist, 34" inseam


Amen dude!

Jason -------------------------------- "Consumer, how many times have you hankered for vegan mayonnaise only to realize you're not man enough to open the jar?" -- Bucky B. Katt

I vote in favor of Stubby/Regular/Long sizing on both the Trousers and the tops. Those of us with long legs tend to also have long.... torso's and arms.

In my experience, I have to go up a least one size bigger than optimal get tops to stay tucked in and sleeves to reach (and cover) my wrists. I had to go to a XXL to get long enough sleeves on my Dept. issue 5 in 1 jacket. It fits like a GP tent, and is still too short in the body.

And don't start the big/tall sizes at XL. A tall/medium would be perfect. And you would be the only company in the world doing it, aside from a few Gov. contractors who make med/tall bdu tops.
As others have said, thank you for both the generous law enforcement discounts and your aggressive input from customers.

quote:
Originally posted by rgrwilcox:
Offer "No shoulder velcro" as an option on the jackets that have shoulder velcro.


THIS, for the same reason others have mentioned.
quote:
Originally posted by SNDT1319:
Has Arc'teryx thought of partnering with another company to do a value line similar to what Mystery Ranch does with CamelBak?


stepping wildly out of my lane here, but that sounds like it would be contrary to about every principle the bird adheres to.

Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.

quote:
Originally posted by kemp:
quote:
Originally posted by SNDT1319:
Has Arc'teryx thought of partnering with another company to do a value line similar to what Mystery Ranch does with CamelBak?


stepping wildly out of my lane here, but that sounds like it would be contrary to about every principle the bird adheres to.


They have, it's called vertx.
___________________
He would have went on livin, but he made one fatal slip, when he tried to match the Ranger with the big iron on his hip.

Don't wish it were easier; wish you were better
I have a Alpha jacket, Atom LT and just bought a Covert Cardigan (which appears to have been dicontinued in LEAF form?). I really like all the jackets I've bought from Arc. The only thing I "dislike" is on the Atom LT jacket the polartec side panels are beginning to pile on the right side where a G19 usually resides. Full disclosure, the G19 has been stippled so it is rougher than a stock pistol, which is likely the cause of the wear. I am not complaining about this, I don't expect the jacket to be light as a feather and wear like stainless steel. Maybe I'll somehow attach a patch made of abrasion resitant material in that area to prevent more wear. Anyway, thought you might want to know.
If you want to discourage non mil and leo from purchasing your products then why not only make them available to that market? If you don't qualify for the special LEAF price then you can't purchase?

I'll freely admit that the majority of your products are out of my price range. Being regular infantry I don't get a special clothing allowance but I do find the majority of the issued kit to be at least adequate. I have only one suggestion and that would be your colour options or lack thereof. Your base layers (merino), neck gaiter, helmet liner and beanies all look great but they're only available in black. The majority of people in the Canadian Forces can not get away with wearing this colour. If it were offered in OD then I could see myself buying them. Especially the helmet liner/beanies. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find something that will fit comfortably under the issued helmet and is OD?
quote:
Your base layers (merino), neck gaiter, helmet liner and beanies all look great but they're only available in black.


or even better will be crocodile cause you could wear that colour with multicam too.

____________________________

The only easy day was yesterday.

Molon Labe

Til Valhall

quote:
Originally posted by BKEE:
Id like LEAF extended to paramedics and USAR teams.


Paramedics and SAR teams are eligible for the outdoor Pro program (http://arcteryx.com/Pro-Purchase.aspx?EN ) as those garments are typically more suited to their needs.

"a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." - Max Webber from Politics as a Vocation

I would also like to see more offerings in black as well. In more "Urban" environments black tends to scream "Im a cop" less than the earth tones do in-regards to plainclothes and UC assignments.

"Fortuitous outcomes reinforce poor tactics & training"

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