The General Purpose Off Duty AR: Which caliber?

Commish,

Thank you for the explanation.

Having tried single point slings for a bit, I'm not personally a fan, although they do have their uses in certain situations with the right gun.

We have a demo 11.5" AR pistol that has a single point on it sometimes.

That's why I like the 221, it can go from two point to single point easily, depending on the situation.

It's what we sell to a lot of our LE Department customers, as they can issue them out, and can be configured as the Officers see fit.

As for the caliber, I think Beat Trash pretty much summed up my thoughts. We sell RA556B to our LE customers. If it can put down people, I figure it should be good for a mountain lion. Maybe DocGKR can chime in?

Regards.

Mark

Formerly known as ML

If you need more power than 5.56, a 6.8 SPC is pretty damn close to a semiauto .270 Win. Upper swap, new mag, you'r in business. People have taken mule deer with it.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Why not a 12-16” lightweight profile bcm upper in 556, a light weight can like a trash panda and a t1/t2 or mro?

lower can be whatever just try to keep weight down.

 

One of my uppers is a dd 10.5, socom can, razor 1-6, light and peq15... loaded out all the way it’s a miserable little fat fuck to lug around. 

As often as possible I’ll swap the upper for a 12.5” noveske barrel with a geissele rail and mro. Not a light sbr upper but it’s a joy in comparison.

Or you could look at the fix by q in some of its shorter configs, seems like and interesting walk around gun concept.

WyattT posted:

Why not a 12-16” lightweight profile bcm upper in 556, a light weight can like a trash panda and a t1/t2 or mro?

 

Or you could look at the fix by q in some of its shorter configs, seems like and interesting walk around gun concept.

I have a 11.5" BCM BFH with a T1, Surefire Mini and a M300, plus a Crimsom Trace CMR 206 green laser. It currently handles most of my ranch work as well being my patrol rifle.

I have been eyeballing "The Fix" for a few months now. I think it may be worth trading off a few rifles to get- It is a highly capable crossover rifle as far as I can tell.

My personal preference would be the 6.8 for 4 legged critters. For us in WA state 223/556 isn’t legal for deer so I built a 6.8 a few years ago as my ultimate goal was to run 6x6.8 wildcat and the 6.8 was an easy stand in until I got my custom barrel. This was before noslers acquisition of SSA and SSA was a local company and I could find good priced ammo on the shelves which I used until my brass stockpile was built up. I ran either OTM or accubonds. Rifle was a aero upper and lower, Troy 13” handguards, PSA pencil barrel ( Made by FN) standard a2 flash hider for 308, 2.5-7 scope. All up it was a hair under 8lb without bipod. Shot very well and was very handy. My take is if you are going to do 18”-20” length the 6.5 will suit you well but gives up too much when going shorter due to bore diameter. 6.8 will be optimal in the 14”-16” range, below that the blackout starts to excell. My current set up is an 8” 300blk for truck/timber as it’s a solid performer to 150 yards. If coyotes are the focus I run the 6x6.8, it’s pretty easy to get 400-600 yard shots in the open fields with foothills as back drops making it safe to take such shots. In hind sight I would have built either a 243lbc/6grendal or strait 6.5 grendel with a 20” barrel for the extra performance but I’m vested in 6.8 Mags, BCG, Redding bushing dies and brass. I went back and forth with my latest build for the basic purpose you are looking at. I was close to doing another 6.8 but ended up going ar10 to gain a little more performance. I ended up at 9.1lb with the 308 which isn’t bad, it’s still the lightest rifle I own, but I may still end up putting together another 6.8 upper to go lighter yet. If you look around on 68forums the 6.8 has been used on most big game animals in North America and has a decent following. All that said, side by side the 6.8 running 115gr at 2600 FPS is pretty close to the 6.5g running a 123gr at 2400 FPS (16” barrel velocities) drop is within an inch of each other at 600, the 6.5 has almost 100ft/lb more energy. Both have cheaper ammo that can be run from federal/wolf ~$10/20 rounds and both have a good selection of factory hunting/tac loads with the slight edge going to the 6.8 on selection but both run mid $20s for premium ammo, it really just comes down to personal preference and both are better options then the 300blk IMO unless you want short/compact. 

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Originally Posted by DocGKR:

       
This is why LE in some areas would be better served with belt fed weapons and flame throwers...

       

Joined: 5.23.2009
Location: WA/ Canadian border

I'm late to the party, but, I went with a BCM 9" KMR upper in 300BO.  I just got it together.  I wanted as short and light as possible for walking in the woods.  I threw on a MRO, hand stop and small Streamlight in a Proctor mount.  I went BO because black bear are not uncommon here.  I wanted more penetration than a 5.56 in a smaller package.

However, the discussion on the 6.8 has me intrigued.  A light 6.8 16 inch upper sounds like a great all around rifle.

Does anyone have recommendations for a high quality, complete  upper to put on a 5.56 lower?  I don't want to do any wrenching myself.  The only company I found that I'm familiar with is Wilson Combat.  Is there anyone else to consider?

Thanks.

Wing Nut posted:

Does anyone have recommendations for a high quality, complete  upper to put on a 5.56 lower?  I don't want to do any wrenching myself.  The only company I found that I'm familiar with is Wilson Combat.  Is there anyone else to consider?

Thanks.

I've seen good things about AR15Performance uppers on the 68threads. No personal experience.

If you have to fight, fight like the third monkey trying to get on Noah's Ark, and brother, it's starting to rain.

As mentioned earlier, I have a Wilson Combat barrel on my current build and I like it.  I would assume their upper are equally as nice but I think you pay for the name.  Be careful, there is also a Wilson Arms out there; I know they make barrels but not sure on full uppers.  Last time I looked, their barrels were not on par with Wilson Combat ones.  My brother has a Stag 6.8 upper and while it is nothing fancy, it has functioned fine and shoots well.  Also as mentioned AR15Performance does get good reviews.  Both the 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel have forums specific to those rounds (if you get bored).  I can't believe I left out such a key piece of info.  Like Shotty said, while 5.56 is now a legal deer round in my AO, it was not when I was first in the market for an AR to hunt with.  Something important to consider depending on area...

"These are the rules. Everybody fights, nobody quits. If you don't do your job I'll kill you myself."

 

Joined: 04/01/2004     Location:  Twin Cities, MN

For complete uppers ARperformance and bison get high praise from the 6.8 guys. Other options would be Noveske and  rainier arms, I don’t see a complete upper on their site anymore but I’m sure you could spec one out and they would build it. In looking at uppers you want a 1:11 or 1:12 twist and a SPC II chamber.  

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Originally Posted by DocGKR:

       
This is why LE in some areas would be better served with belt fed weapons and flame throwers...

       

Joined: 5.23.2009
Location: WA/ Canadian border

Wes Grant at MSTN makes a very high quality upper as well. He doesn't get much press any more, but he still makes good stuff. Last I talked to him he had retired from flying planes and moved to AZ, but was still building uppers.

Wes would be able to answer questions about the efficacy of SBR 6.8 carbines. I took a EAG shoot house class in Memphis with him and he was running a suppressed 8.5" 6.8 SPC. He was kind of an evangelist for the caliber back in the day.

I’ve been enjoying this thread quite a bit.  

For the last couple months I’ve been collecting parts for the exact same sort of concept.  The big difference is that I’m dealing with East coast creatures which aren’t really in the same ballpark size wise.     200lb animals are about the largest I expect to find, and mostly it will be a varmint/coyote and probably deer tag filling blaster.  I struggled with caliber for a bit and opted to stick with .223/5.56.  As a reloader I can make ammo for these purposes, such as Nosler ballistic tips for coyotes or groundhogs.   Barnes copper slugs for deer, hogs or whatever.  Basically, something that can put down most anything in the East with good shot placement.  My goal was to just keep the gun on the lighter side of things, but not go overly crazy with weight reduction.  Being taller than average, I don’t mind a little extra barrel length if it means more velocity to get the most out of the round.  I ended up with this.

6DE310E3-BE1B-4D92-9D7C-D4139D7C44BE

Basically normal stuff with 13” ALG rail and a 17.7” Hanson profile Ballistic Advantage barrel in mid length with a VG6 comp.  This made for a very light and handy combo.  With 55gr ballistic tips and 75gr Hornady match I was pretty much under 1.5” groups with a big Leupold scope on it without really trying.  The length makes it easy to point but for my height it doesn’t feel excessively long, the comp and mid length gas system made for a boring minimal recoil pulse.  I can easily attach a light or bipod on it if needed.  QD sling points on the ALG rail are nice too.

Where I’m stuck is optic choice, as I want magnification.  Im not really wanting/needing a big heavy optic, nor am I wanting a lower powered variable that has a mediocre high range.  I’m leaning torwards something like a duplex reticle with a 3-4 power low range and a 9-14 high end that doesn’t weigh a ton and isn’t too bulky to keep the package handy.  I’ll probably go with something like a normal hunting scope in one of the lower weight fixed style mounts.  It isn’t intended as a hard use gun, more of a good shooter at moderate round counts that is easy to field.

After really considering the different calibers, I just had a hard time justifying something other than .223/5.56 for Eastern US.  .300 isn’t bad, but for varmint loads I want the speed and soft core light jacket exploding style bullets.  Out west the 6.8 being essentially a lower velocity .270Win would be a great choice, especially with some Barnes copper bullets going fast.

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Glass he been kind of the hard one for my set up. My 6.8 wore a 2.5-7 and I really liked it for 300 on in for hunting purposes. When I went to ar10/308 I went with a bushnell smrs 1-6.5. I think this is an awesome SFP scope, but in the end I felt like it limited the effective range of a 308 for the accuracy I prefer. I ended up switching it out for a vortex PST gen2 2.5-10 and am much happier with it although it (optic) is much heavier than it needs to be. If you want something with a little more power than the 1-4/1-6 LVPO I would look at the vortex razor LH, under 16oz, capped turrets and the HSR4 reticle is useable for precise hold overs. Other option would be the nightforce SHV 3-10 with the MOAR reticle at 20oz. I hate BDC reticles, my OCD kicks in and I want more precision then what the BDC offers.  Really, I found the 1-6.5 a very useable optic out to around 400 and could keep the shots on the head of an IPSC at that distance shooting prone, much past that and my ability to see moa sized targets fell off and I feel like the 308 based rifle should be more capable at 5-700 yards though it’s turning into more of an SPR at this point than a GP rifle.  If I were to build another 6.8 with essentially the max range being 3-400 I would very likely run a 1-6 with my expectation being the rifle shoots at least 1.5 moa

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Originally Posted by DocGKR:

       
This is why LE in some areas would be better served with belt fed weapons and flame throwers...

       

Joined: 5.23.2009
Location: WA/ Canadian border

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