The New and Improved DG-3 Ruck

M81 Woodland. Any argument you give is invalid, because woodland.

In all honesty I have nothing in the way of feedback at this time as all I have is the DG-16 frame and haven’t found anything wrong or lacking with it. Definitely interested to get ahold of one of those packs though, especially the DG3 frame itself

Dirtpro, the goal isn’t to lighten your pocket book. We’re gonna empty that mofo out.

Aus_Crossfire posted:

The uptake for the overrun DG3's has been hectic. As of 16:01 26/11/18 we have 2 MC DG3's and 5 Khaki DG3's still available. At this stage pending filling contract orders we hope to have more DG3's available early to mid January 19. We are looking at making them in Ranger Green, Khaki, MC and OCP. Any thoughts, cunning ideas or criticism's accepted and appreciated. 

Sorry I missed you at the Brisbane Expo.

Do you think there is a civilian market enough to justify non-mil colours?

Hello All

I just got my DG3 today. It came all set up ready to go. So many features !! There is one thing I wanted to ask the more informed though. It came with a cover across the front. My first thoughts were helmet carrier? Did anyone else get this? Ill try and upload some pics.

Yeah that's a nice "beaver tail" which expands into a helmet carrier.  Also works for clothing layers in varied weather conditions.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

On colors.  Yeah that's the problem.  You can get out into the weeds very quickly.  Everyone has their favorite camo pattern.  I wish we could all be more like the Jarheads and use Coyote Brown on all our kit, so it's interchangeable with different camo.  But the gear queer in me just loves me some multicam.  

Ideally, I'd like a load out in plain earth tone colors, like browns n greens, with "overwhites" in various camo for the terrain and seasons.  Same with rucksacks; go solid brown and have covers for all sorts of different camo.  Or like we were discussing before, start with a solid green or brown, and the use different camo top lids and pouches to taste.

On the features, Crossfire is very switched on; there's very little really to quibble about.  I have some preferences on certain things but that doesn't mean it needs to be across the board.  I find myself "cross-pollinating" certain features between the DG-3, and the DG-16.  For instance, I like a detachable top lid, so I made that happen.  Also I like the DG-16 frame, so I put my DG-3 on there, which is a 95% fit.  Some might want to put a DG-16 on a DG-3 frame, which might require a little re-design to make both bags n frames 100% compatible.

To the OP, the DG-3 is a nice "right-sized" bag, I would hazard to guess for the majority of folks out there.  It's gonna be the bomb for 1-3 day missions, especially if you have back-up support or regular re-supply.  I think this describes most people these days.

In comparison to the rest of the field, for what you're getting, this is a bargain.  It's top quality mil-spec kit, at civvy back pack prices.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

G'day Andy, at this stage we are looking at doing the DG 3 in ranger green , coyote, MC and OCP ( they should drop on the web site early 19) .  We are not planning at this stage doing the DG16 in any more colours , however, the new year will see the reappearance of the SAS Pack and updated and lighter DG16 we will then eval the color range.  Alway keen on feedback 

Black?

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

runningwolf posted:

 

Dirtpro, the goal isn’t to lighten your pocket book. We’re gonna empty that mofo out.

Ha! Good copy! Looks like i'll be picking up some extra shifts in an attempt to snag one of the 2 remaining. Very excited to hear about the beaver tail.

 

DAQ #367 - does a DG Frameset come with the DG3 and/or DG16 or do you need to buy it separately?

Tenui Nec Dimittam

 

"Ideals are peaceful.  History is violent"   -Wardaddy, Fury

 

Joined: 8/5/07         Location: Chester County, PA

Luckily the frameset can be bought separately and used on just about any ALICE/NICE compatible ruck.  The frameset consists of a polymer frame and the suspension system (shoulder straps and hip belt).

If you order a complete DG-3 or DG-16 system it will come with the frameset and bag.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Thanks!  It through me off looking at the current deals of the DG frameset for $280 and the DG3 overrun is only $15 more at $295.  If you want the frameset...you can pick up the DG3 bag for a steal!!

Tenui Nec Dimittam

 

"Ideals are peaceful.  History is violent"   -Wardaddy, Fury

 

Joined: 8/5/07         Location: Chester County, PA

OK I see what you mean.  But be advised the separate frameset is a DG-16, and the DG-3 system has the smaller frameset.  So depending on your size, the DG-16 frame is 20"; the DG-3 is 18".  

But yeah it's still a smokin' deal.

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

You think that's a good deal?  Get this:  these crazy Aussies are currently running a 20% off sale with the code "DZ18" (no quotation marks).  The total for the DG3 (pack+shipping+coupon+convert to USD) is around $250.  Buy this shit up yo.

@Aus_Crossfire Think your web page is garbo?  You've obviously never tried to shop with AWS.  I think it works pretty well, except the menu doesn't work quite right (clicking the fire pack redirects to the DG16) and finding info on the product page is a little difficult (it's spread out instead of concentrated, not in bulleted lists, and I didn't see the litreage/ci listed).  I have some ideas but don't feel I have the experience to speak with any kind of authority.  I'll still list them here to see what others think.

-I'd like to see a removable lid w/flap stowed underneath, like on the DG16.  It'd let the end user slim the pack down a little (reduce capacity+look up while prone), and should be fairly simple to implement.

-It'd be super-cool to see a purpose-built assault pack that could be attached on the hypothetical flat top flap (I guess it'd need PALS webbing).  I was thinking 15-18 liters, optional waist strap, contoured and relatively slim shoulder straps, back panel optimized for ventilation (kinda like the AVS 1000).  Can take long or short 3l bladders, and maybe a frame sheet.  PALS on the sides.  Has two compression straps going around the entire bag.  Optional slick beavertail, just like on the DG3.  My take is that a larger pack like that doesn't benefit from armor integration so that's not necessary.

-Long ways off, but US distributors would be neat.

-Even if you won't be at SHOT, you could make a "virtual booth" overview of your new products for 2019.  Videos give you an idea of what a product is like in hand that pictures simply can't convey.

-PLEASE make the boots with a wide toe box.  After a while, minimalist shoes splay your toes out to a more natural fan shape, like those that savannah runners have.  I can't remember how many popular brands I tried on while trying to find boots, only for my toes to be squished by their straight design.

 

Diz, thanks for the detailed pictures and reviews.   Would never have seen it otherwise.  And Crossfire guys, mad props for being so involved with users and inviting of feedback.

G'day all the current DG3 price is a once off due to order overrun. Once we go into commercial production the price will go up ( not significantly) and OCP/MC will be slightly more ( MC /OC fabric must be woven with gold). We will also have the long awaited return of the SAS pack early 19 along with some specialist variants ie a Sniper wpn bag.  Any suggestions or wish lists that you'd like to see ?

Oh... I really want to see the sniper weapon bag. I have quite fallen in love with my Erblestock carrier except for the everything about the pack and frame  

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

How long is the sale for?

Things are kinda pressed right now with the house renovation and Christmas.  😕

_____________________________________________

 

Doug

If I mention Corona, I ain't talking about beer.

 

"It's your turn to do until it's not."  TA

 

"Afterall.... if you get yourself into a fair fight.. you really haven't learned anything in all the time you have spent on Lightfighter, your tactics suck, and you don't deserve to breed."  David Reeves

 

JOINED:  9/20/09     LOCATION:  Outside of KSA Finally!

You had me at "sniper weapon bag."  Oh Sweet Baby Jeebus yes please.

-------------------------

IT'S A COLT.  THEY'RE LIKE THE HK OF GUNS.

HRH (Ret.) The Most Reverend Consig

Stupidity is not a skillset.

 

 

 

 

 Joined: 28 Nov 2004: 0037hrs        Location: The worst run state in the U.S

I can think of some guys needing a good means to carry mortars high and close to the back with room for snivel and pogey bait. Maybe also a good way to carry a javalin. Both the CLU and tube. Carrying the CLU in a laundry bag with a 550 strap up a mountain sucks, like bad.

For Javelin, good discussion already had here may be a starting point: 

https://www.lightfighter.net/t...90#11713370873970590

 

And a little discussion of carriage of mortar, Carl G, and other rounds on page two here: 

https://www.lightfighter.net/t...ntry-platoons?page=2

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

As a side talk, we are also in final stages of development of the DG Mule.  The principle design being for the carriage of the Javelin CLU and separately the rocket  & BCU . We are also looking at better options for the carriage of the Goose's ammunition. Any thoughts or cunning plans will always be taken on board.

Crossfire,

I can think of some dudes that will volunteer to be a mule for the mule. 

On ammo for the Goose. Have you thought of maybe having MOLLE/ sewn on/ or a quick disconnect tab system like Diz is doing on the inside of the ruck next to the frame to attach “ammo pouches” or rather sleeves to so you can just slide the round in there. Figure you can fit 3-4 and they will be high and close to the back.

Diz posted:

Just dying to see the SAS rucks myself.  

 

Me too. Although I think these Crossfire / WE packs are breeding at my place. 

Will the new SAS pack be compatible with the new frames or will it have an updated version of the original?

I'm torn here.  The old "X" pattern frames look like they'd work very well.  The new DG frames work with BA.  Or give you the ventilation of the external.  

For specialist troops, like doing long range recce, the internal "X" frame would probably do well, for that load out.

For light infantry, where a bunch more weapons and ammo are involved, I'd think the external frame would shine.  Not to mention work with BA.  

So I see a use for both.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Merry Christmas to me (long post alert)! My DG-3 arrived so naturally I immediately loaded it up and ran about in the woods to test it out. The test hike was a 2.25mi (3.62km) loop on a rugged and rocky  trail with 50lb (22.6kg), average speed was 2.8mph (4.5kph). This trail has multiple scrambles, duck unders and climb overs along with sharp inclines, declines and off camber sections so this gave me the opportunity to really feel how the load was balanced and how it would move with me. No LBE this time, that and armor will come later. A note on armor, my medium plates are too tall to fit between the top of the belt and the bottom of the shoulder harness (belt adjusted all the way down and harness all the way up). Not sure if that's on purpose or if I did it wrong. Anyone have a tip? To say the pack carried the load well would be a gross understatement. Even at the limit of it's adjustment, the load transferred directly to my hips - I experienced absolutely 0 shoulder pain despite all the load shifting around on the rough trail. 

For reference, I'm 6ft tall so I anticipated that the frame would be too short for long ruck style wear and my anticipation was to run it without the waist belt with a belt kit and ultimately turn the frame/suspension over to my wife who has an 18" torso and has been showing some interest in backpacking. All that to say I was pleasantly surprised on my initial test hike. I moved the waist belt all the way down, the shoulder harness all the way up and the load lifters over the frame as noted in the DG-16 thread. In this configuration the pack actually rode very comfortably. 

Some other initial observations: I still like the idea of a separate/removable lid but separating the two is a bit above my sewing skill level. The included one works fine for now and I appreciate the long zipper with flap for cable/tube/antenna routing. Also seen are the two external access points for the lid pockets, the top one has a couple admin style organizers inside

As noted above, several pieces come with the DG-3. Clockwise from top left are the belt pad and frame sheet to be use in "internal mode", beaver tail, hydro bladder carrier (2 included) and radio carrier. Inside the pack are two tall, skinny pouches that are also removable. There are enough rings inside the pack to hang everything up at the same time and it appears that the hydro carriers might be able to be hung next to one another curving around the sides in addition to being hung on top of each other - haven't confirmed this though.

One last bit, the MOLLE and pockets on the sides of the pack have a pass through to handle long items. I haven't seen a pass through behind the pocket before, an interesting feature. The pockets are not big enough for water bottles when the ruck is packed but they have a reinforced bottom which will work well for long pointy objects. I'll post some more once I've gotten to play with this a bit more.

runningwolf posted:

I can think of some guys needing a good means to carry mortars high and close to the back with room for snivel and pogey bait. Maybe also a good way to carry a javalin. Both the CLU and tube. Carrying the CLU in a laundry bag with a 550 strap up a mountain sucks, like bad.

Well, if the US is still planning to issue a 84mm M3A1  per platoon- there is a demand for round carrying right there- plus cleaning & other support gear.

We are in final stages of both a Goose ammunition carriage systems ( 3 rounds ) and Javelin carriage based off the DG systems. There is still a bit of test and eval to go and probably me pulling out what little hair I have.  Running Wolf and Diz have been SME's for this project and cut down the R&D significantly.  The only way  Crossfire can deliver is listening to the people at the tip of the spear and deliver what they need not what looks pretty.

I know a guy who is getting the Goose out to the Marine Corps (former Weapons Officer), and he could likely be another good resource.

I don’t know if your design would need to be licensed to a U.S. company for .mil sales though.

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

On the DG-3 system.  If you're gonna run armor, I'd get a DG-16 frameset.  If you are 6' and over the -16 frame is gonna be a better fit.  You could then fit the back plate in there I'm guessing.  I am running my DG-3 bag on my spare DG-16 frameset now and I love it.   This gives me a nice set up with a 2-3 day bag, and a 5+ day bag, sorta like a Medium and Large ALICE set up.

On the Goose and Jav stuff, I gotta bow to Running Wolf, who is carrying that sort of shit around these days.  But I definitely concur that a stiff back panel would be ideal to carry heavy pointy shit that won't fit in a ruck.  I was thinking an internal panel to hang shit on the back wall, but Running Wolf also mentioned a stand-alone panel, that could be used, in lieu of the pack bag.  Which I also think makes a lot of sense.  Perhaps an optional back panel that goes between the frame and bag.  Maybe even a shelf that would attach via the hipbelt lugs.  Sorta like the old pack shelf on the ALICE.       

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz posted:

...Perhaps an optional back panel that goes between the frame and bag...

This one. Before the concept of the frame sheet for smaller packs, I (and I think I got this from others) would totally get scrap cardboard or something to keep unpleasant loads from stabbing you. 

I'd think today you could find something that would weigh nothing and be stiff enough to prevent loads from stabbing through. I have some old pallet tear sheets made of who-knows-what plastic, which I use as stiffeners for my own little projects and it is perfect for this. 

Diz posted:

...Maybe even a shelf that would attach via the hipbelt lugs.  Sorta like the old pack shelf on the ALICE.       

We've played with some cargo ruck systems, mostly use these old Swedish ones we picked up cheap, modded a bit (modern straps, etc) because their larger shelf is 1000x better than the tiny ALICE shelf.

But, last couple years they are getting dusty as my hunting-esque cargo pack works better, and we already have it. Just dump the bags of personal gear inside, then load the cargo instead. A totally normal sized ruck set in cargo mode can easily handle stuff up to a 5 gal water/fuel can, and because it grabs it all vs having to balance a box on a back/shelf system, also takes other bulky cargo like camo net bags, crew tents, commo wire reels, and so on.  

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Diz,

The idea I had on the 84mm carriage system actually came from the hanging method you did on the inside of the ruck for the hydration carrier but with that same insert having the attachment points so the pack could be taken off and it attached directly to the frame. From talking with you and Greg I think the 3 of us were all thinking close to the same thing just the hashing it out part made the light bulb click. As far as the Javalin packs, those will be very interesting. I’m not sure if Crossfire is going the two pack route (what I think would be the best route) but if so I can see the tube pack, if sized right also being a option for carrying AT4s and the Goose itself. These 3 “packs” (84mm, and javalin packs) can be VERY versatile for a weapons squad. Next up, as I think Greg still has a couple hairs left, 240 AG pack.

runningwolf posted:

Diz,

The idea I had on the 84mm carriage system actually came from the hanging method you did on the inside of the ruck for the hydration carrier but with that same insert having the attachment points so the pack could be taken off and it attached directly to the frame. From talking with you and Greg I think the 3 of us were all thinking close to the same thing just the hashing it out part made the light bulb click. As far as the Javalin packs, those will be very interesting. I’m not sure if Crossfire is going the two pack route (what I think would be the best route) but if so I can see the tube pack, if sized right also being a option for carrying AT4s and the Goose itself. These 3 “packs” (84mm, and javalin packs) can be VERY versatile for a weapons squad. Next up, as I think Greg still has a couple hairs left, 240 AG pack.

Wern't Mystery Ranch playing with 84mm carriage systems?

2012: 

http://soldiersystems.net/2012...nce-mystery-ranch-2/

Mystery Ranch gave me a peak behind the curtain and what did I see? A carrier for 3 rounds for the “Goose”. This carrier is designed to work with the MR 3-Day Overload that we profiled earlier in the week and accommodates the Carl Gustav’s 84mm rounds in their shipping tubes.

20120919-085810.jpg

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

They have been around for a bit: I posted this pic in the 2016 'Goose' thread & it had been kicking around my cordura trunk for at least a year prior.

Gave it away to someone who uses 84mm: response was it it works but there was doubt re protection required for a round once out of it's storage tube.

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