Yeah I would again bow to Running Wolf on this, but, 1) do you always carry the shipping tube?  If so, no problem, a reinforced soft pouch should work.  If not, will bare round tear up soft pouch? 2) If so, how about some combo of kydex and cordura?  Kinda like a kydex holster insert with cordura cover.  Or maybe hypolon and cordura? 3) How much does a single round weigh?

This is an interesting project because you are approaching the limits of what a soft pouch can/will carry without shitting the bed.  When do you switch from soft goods to metal/polymer mounting system.  I'm thinking of those new "skeletonized" pouch holders that seem to be all the rage with JSOC these days.  This might be a good app for them.  

One thing that MR did that is interesting is the "Overload" system like my buddy currently uses.  With a few mods to a Crossfire system, you could have a pack frame that could work as: a stand-alone back panel for various crew served weapons systems (Goose, Jav, 240, etc); with a pack bag (with perhaps some kind of pass-through attachment system for heavy shit on the back wall); or with tab strap extensions, fit the bag (like maybe a DG-3) over the crew served stuff, ala "overload".

Not sure how much/often you want to do that, as I sit here with a beer, but if you have to carry all that shit, this might be a better way than laundry sacks.

Another idea from the GIF:  What if you ran a zip around the hard panel, so you could add a pack bag, with the hard panel now acting as the rear wall, which can now still mount heavy shit.  Kinda like the AWS Yote beaver tail.  Yeah if you want to trust a zipper that much, WTF, put a center zip in in too!  Ha, there's your ultimate "tri-zip".  

We now return you to your regular program.                 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz good copy on the DG16 panel being needed for plates, Greg advised the same.  He also said that they are planning on offering inserts for some of the crew served bits being discussed here. Not that some inserts are going to take the place of a dedicated platform.

I would like to see an optional hard panel offered; like the DG-3 internal panel that would work on either frame.  If you run a 3L bladder down the back, it can bow out and negate the back stand-off area, and/or fight your back plate for space.  So a rigid back would keep the bag from contacting your back, or give you a nice platform to hang a radio or other shit from.  I'm thinking if it was tied in with web tabs, the frame would still be able to articulate with you, making the back panel "independent" of you.

If it was hung with web tabs, you could hang it directly to the frame, as a pack board, or hang it internally, in the bag on the frame, or hang it internal and run it as an internal frame.  Lots of options here.  If the web tabs all aligned, the weight would be transferred right through the bag to the frame.  Or to the shoulder straps, via the top web loops.       

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz posted:

I would like to see an optional hard panel offered; like the DG-3 internal panel that would work on either frame.  If you run a 3L bladder down the back, it can bow out and negate the back stand-off area, and/or fight your back plate for space.  So a rigid back would keep the bag from contacting your back, or give you a nice platform to hang a radio or other shit from.  I'm thinking if it was tied in with web tabs, the frame would still be able to articulate with you, making the back panel "independent" of you.

If it was hung with web tabs, you could hang it directly to the frame, as a pack board, or hang it internally, in the bag on the frame, or hang it internal and run it as an internal frame.  Lots of options here.  If the web tabs all aligned, the weight would be transferred right through the bag to the frame.  Or to the shoulder straps, via the top web loops.       

 

Sounds like the Old, Old School trick if running a panel of ration pack cardboard down the back of an Alice frame to stop angular bag contents digging into your back

The only point l will say is the  aperture in the frame has a two fold design ;

1: accept plate;

2: promote air circulation, 

l can appreciate the non bounce option of if you have rigged a bladder.

We can look at options then l guess it’s time for me to play text crash dummy again. Keep the ideas and suggestions coming.  Thank you for your frankness and taking time to tap out your thoughts 

The Goose is supposedly coming down the pipe but we haven’t got it yet so my only experience is with the Jav, AT4, and 240. I would think keeping the Goose rounds in the shipping tube until use would be smart to protect them but I don’t have the experience to back it. I know a guy that does and will ask. If I’m not mistaken 84mm rounds are around 10 pounds a piece.

Another point to add with the CLU, if carrying the tube we usually keep the cord attached but when just using the CLU for observation there’s no point in it so maybe some kinda Velcro straps to hold the cord in place on the pack when not attached? Second point is a means to carry a spare battery for the CLU. They are bulky but when used on a LP/OP you ALWAYS need spare batteries. A solid means to carry it without sticking it in the small stuff pouch on the bottom like I mentioned to Greg would be good but if not possible then you should at least be able to fit one in the stuff pouch on the bottom.

Just to point out, not everyone runs bladders on the back wall.  In fact lots of guys run them under the top lid, so this is not a big issue that you can't work around.  It's just something that either I mod my technique or adapt a new one.  

The point being to make a space for a rear plate, and/or an air gap to your back.  It does that very well.  I am just pissing and moaning about what I want to do.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Went out for a little yomp the other day.  DG-3 at 35 lbs.  The difference between this little gem and an ALICE just keeps coming back.  Night and day.  I am using the sternum strap like there's no tomorrow.  So if you're having issues, cinch this baby down and see if it helps.  Without a belt kit,  I like things tighter around the shoulder gridle, especially for speed marches.  The shoulder strap geometry is money.  It curves in and out to support the weight without your arms going numb.

So yeah, in spite of all my pissing and moaning here, this ruck rocks out.  

A couple of things if you're adding ruck marching to your program.  It's been said in the past that if you want to get good at rucking, go ruck, which is true to a certain extent, but I am finding that by combining a ruck march program with your running (and lifting) program, the cross-training does improve performance.  The running and rucking play off one another.

Also, you can combine them by doing "weighted" workouts, that is your regular run but with the ruck.  I did hill repeats with the ruck the other day, and it was a kick.  Rotate things around so you're only doing 2 rucks a week, but replacing different things, like speed work, hill repeats, and long runs.

This kind of training was truly a pain in the ass (and shoulders) with an ALICE system; with the Crossfires it's much more doable.  You can concentrate on your overall training fitness rather than being distracted by other shit.       

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

OK I feel like I've been neglecting the rucks as of late, working up the belt kits designs.  But will be back in the bush shortly, with both DG-3 and DG-16 for continued testing.  Land nav with full kit.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

FYI...6min38 in the video linked below, Dana Gleason pulls out a Goose and talks about ammo carriage for it. 

Video was released 16 Jan 2019, I cannot tell if the "shingle" 3-round ammo carrier is the same or not from the ones previously posted.

https://www.youtube DOT com/watch?v=vV2BeEctqck


 

Joined: 03 OCT 2006        Meatspace Coordinates: The Smoke

I managed to get some training in wearing the DG-3A recently. 

 

I’m training up for the Oxfam Trailwalker,  so I’m carrying a 20kg load at the moment.

D30B9F22-6077-45CE-863F-B928A5D381DFB8568670-F64E-43DD-9916-5D24D7D9C7B8571ED598-C06F-4544-8C11-48AFD4203B8D39A805CE-152A-48FA-B45A-35AA975CE376

 

=======================
Forward!
Where we are, where we belong, where we should be.

  

Location: Back in Bris-Vegas, wondering at the bright lights of the big smoke

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Haven’t even really loaded or set up mine yet. Been so busy since getting home as well as getting my tail whooped by pollen rucking’s been in the back of my mind. Heading north this weekend and gonna get some time under load. Get to see how the frame compares to the DG-16 frame

cashonlycow posted:

FYI...6min38 in the video linked below, Dana Gleason pulls out a Goose and talks about ammo carriage for it. 

Video was released 16 Jan 2019, I cannot tell if the "shingle" 3-round ammo carrier is the same or not from the ones previously posted.

https://www.youtube DOT com/watch?v=vV2BeEctqck

Gotta love a factory where shorts and t-shirt guy goes sure, here's a couple rounds for ya: 

 

I think this is the best shot of that ammo shingle: 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

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Make sure and bring both DG-16 and DG-3 frames.  I have my DG-3 on a DG-16 frame right now and like it a lot better.  

Hey 22F, lookin' good.  Make sure and take some more pics along the way.  We will do the same.  Will be in Sumter National Forest or the Uwharrie.   

On MR, that's pretty funny, seeing these laid-back civvy types fabricate Goose LBE.   Those rounds are fookin' huge.   Lotsa HE there for sure.   What's the weight on 3 rounds? 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

10lbs/round. I had to use my 64 PAT ruck on a live fire range as I had to schlep 10 rounds, there wasn’t an easy way to carry them. 

____________________________"Train for Peace, not war it is safer" Canadian Forces Light "You are on your way to visit death and destruction upon a village full of mouth breathers who would rather fuck their buddy than their uneducated toothless wife and who's most glorious moment in thier worthless lives is when they dance three circles around a meteorite and then cast stones at an imaginary devil. Ahhh, the simple pleasures", To quote GG

OK Runningwolf and I took the DG-3's out for a little spin the other day.  We were doing land nav in the National Forest.  

Check out the DG-3 with back panel, in this case, full of hard shell rain gear.  Belt kit with V/M mag, and canteen pouches, modified with tuck tab closure, and buttpack.

DG-3 bag and frame.

DG-3 with DG-16 frame.

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Here's my new belt kit.  3-mag pouches, and sustainment pouches with tuck tab closure.  All done Brit style flush with belt.  On a modified Jay Jay's belt and yoke.  

Here's a couple of pics of my experimental "waist belt" system.  I sewed a short piece of webbing  with a female SR buckle to the patrol belt.  Then I removed the std waist belt, and replaced it with a piece of 1 1/2" webbing, reduced down to 1" webbing, and a male SR buckle.   When connected, this pulls in the back of the ruck  in snug.  

Other side.  Note 1 1/2" webbing pulling waist pad in around back.  Also note how pouches form nice shelf for ruck frame.

You'd have to be careful with these.  If contact is likely, or even possible, you would want to leave them un-done.  But if contact was unlikely, then you might do them up to help disperse the load across the patrol belt more.  For like a long off-set insertion.   

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Looks good mate. 

I’m taking my DG-3A with chest rig for a wander this weekend with my Scouts. 

I’ll keep you mob updated. 

=======================
Forward!
Where we are, where we belong, where we should be.

  

Location: Back in Bris-Vegas, wondering at the bright lights of the big smoke

We wrapped up the week with a ruck land nav in another area of the national forest.  

This time I loaded the water bladder on top of the pack, just under the top lid.  Rode much better here.  More airflow around your back.   Note DG-16 frame with DG-3 bag.  This combination works well for me.

This is the final RP and I'm pretty smoked right here.  A few notes.  The DG-3 rode really well.  Runningwolf agreed.  Huge difference between it and the old ALICE system.  We were humping up and down the Carolina hills, as you can see from the pics, the RP was a finger where a trail terminated.  The DG-3 rides really well in this type of up and down, through the creek bed type of stuff.   It's "alpine" shape is much better balanced than the old green tick.  

You might also notice that I have another belt kit on with V/M mag, and Jay Jay's sustainment pouches.  Another good combo with the Crossfire ruck.  Running wolf tried Brit canteens and cups this time and agreed, it made a nice shelf.

I'd say for most folks, this is gonna make a nice 72-96 hour ruck.  For extended or cold weather ops, the DG-16 or the new SAS Mk7 will give you the added space for extra stuff.    

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

We will have the latest version of the DG3's available in the next couple of weeks. The colours will be Ranger Green, Coyote, and MC. The members of this forum will be the first to know when they are live. We will also have a significant announcement in next few weeks as well.

Here's a few more pics of the DG-3 in the wild.

This is my DG-3 on a DG-16 frame again.  Note fit up with patrol belt.  

Another good shot of the DG-3 on the move.

We will hopefully have these over here and ready to ship, in about 3 weeks.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Diz posted:

We will hopefully have these over here and ready to ship, in about 3 weeks.   

You've got me sold - Looks like a top notch system.  I'll be standing in line.

--Dave

 

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally."

Yeah I think this will be the most popular ruck we sell.   Looking at the comments in rucks for dismounted patrolling thread, you can see a common theme of something in the Medium ALICE size being the most versatile ruck, for a lot of folks.  I think you are hitting a sweet spot here with enough room for 3+ days, with a well designed military ruck, at a really good price.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

I can’t see it in this thread; what is the volume on the DG-3?

It is better that they do it imperfectly than that you do it perfectly. For it is their war and their country and your time here is limited.

 

                                                                                                                        —T. E. Lawrence

 

 

POSREP: UAE

It's about 55L.  When I get the first order in over here I will do a complete photo shoot of the whole package you will get with one.   It comes with some nice stuff to either run it as an external, or convert it to internal, whatever works best for you.  I think it's gonna be a pretty good deal.    

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

FWIW, my overrun DG-3 came with quite a few extras. As seen in the photo, there were 2 wide hydro hanging pouches, 2 narrow (one shown) that velcro in place down the side, one radio hanger, a beaver tail, a frame sheet and a second hip pad for use without the external frame. All that in addition to the ruck with frame and all the bits and bobs.

I finally got the pack out on a trip where I had to live out of it for a few days. Bottom line is it worked really well - I hope to get it out on some more outings and do a write up some time.

https://wp.me/a2T0CX-1s0

 

I was waiting for the factory fresh packs to get here but I think I'll do a write up on my personal pack just to get the ball rolling.  I did some slight mods, which are neither here nor there, but will point that out so you will know.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

OK here's a few pics to give you an idea of all the details and features of a DG-3, and along the way, how it all goes together.  

Le bag.  

Backside.  Notice extra sewn-in loops for shoulder harness and waist belt straps.  And fuzzy velcro for internal frame waist pad.

 

OK let's look inside this sucker.  

Here's a closer look at the back wall with a bunch of 3/4" loops for hanging lotsa shit.  This is the stock bladder pouch.  The 117G panel mounts the same way.  Also note removable side mesh pockets.  

Another shot of side pouches, the large removable one inboard, and two small, sewn-in outboard.  On both side panels.

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Here's the underside of the top lid.  Zip access from inside as well.  Dual sliders for tube/wire ports.

Top lid bottom zip access to main mesh pouch.

Top zip admin compartment.  Nice pockets for notebook, pens, light, etc.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Here's the DG-3 frame.

Slightly smaller than the DG-16.  Although the waist pad keyholes are the same dims as the -16.

Here's the lower shoulder straps installed.  Note pull tab rolls are face down at this point.

And here's the top harness tri glides installed.  I have switched out some hardware to make assembly/disassembly easier for my T&E.

And the harness connected to top tri-glides.

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

And the lower straps.  I have replaced the lower, three-position tab adjustment system with tri-glides.  This was to lower the shoulder harness as low as possible, for use with patrol belt.  

And cinched up.  Notice it is adjusted as far down as possible, so ruck rides just above waistline, and on top of Patrol belt pouches.  

Threading lower shoulder straps in.  At this point your turn the lower strap 1/2 turn inboard before threading through.  This allows the strap to go from parallel to the frame, to perpendicular, so it hugs your torso.   The pull tabs are now facing the front. 

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

The DG-3 waist pads.  Note absence of center lumbar pad.    

One on.

And the other.   The waist pad does not extend as far around your hips as the DG-16.   

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Putting bag "jock strap" on frame.

Top tabs in.

Side tabs in.  3 per side.

And finally two bottom tabs.  One per corner.

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Top load stab straps.

And threaded to shoulder harness.  

Harness on.  Also note I have removed QR buckles, because I'm experimenting with a hybrid waist belt system, which makes having QR buckles a mute point.  Normal production will have these buckles.  

 

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

Outer waist pads and belt.  The outer pads connect with 2 x 3/4" loop and tabs, and a 1 1/2" loop on the pad for the waist belt.    

Connected.

Both sides.

And complete harness.  The DG-3 waist belt is shorter than the DG-16, that is, is doesn't wrap around as much.  It's about the same length as the "hippo" pad on a good patrol belt.  

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine where a person claims all the benefits of the body politic, without any of the responsibilities, and then claims a halo for their dishonesty." Heinlein

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