Can’t make a rifle into an SBR into a pistol FEDERALLY. If you did that you’d have to file a form 20 to travel because it’s still a federal SBR though it might be a pistol by state law. I wouldn’t want to try it for sure. The law is stupid in this area.

RyanScott posted:

Spacetaco, you can if you put a long barrel on it. 

Dorsai, it’s been covered here and elsewhere, an SBR with a long barrel is no longer an SBR. You can sell it. I wouldn’t. But you could. 

Alright, I'll eat some crow here.  The fact that you are right illustrates the utter illogic and inconsistency of NFA law.  To clarify for everyone who might have believed I was correct, try and follow this "logic". 

- You want a stock on your AR15 with a 10.3" barrel instead of a brace.  That requires you to complete a Form 1, send it in to the ATF with your $200, wait for the stamp, and then engrave the receiver to indicate you (whatever you put on the Form 1) are th manufacturer.  You now have a registered SBR.

- If you put a 16" or longer barrel on it, it no longer possesses the characteristics of an SBR and even though the receiver is on the registry as an SBR, it isn't one.  Let's refer to this as the "tranny".  It looks like a rifle (female), but its 23rd chromosome is XY (registry says it is an SBR).

- Because it is a tranny, you can now take it across state lines without filing paperwork with the ATF (use the Women's restroom), but don't bring your dick (short barrel) with you, or you are no longer a tranny.

-  A tranny can be sold to someone just like any regular rifle (honest to God real XX woman!).  No paperwork, no tax.  If the purchaser desires a short barrel however, he/she/it would need to file a form 4 with $200 transfer tax to make them the registered owner.  Otherwise, they are illegal.  If this sounds like a recipe for mistakes or fraud, you're right.  I fully expect that people have sold registered SBR "trannies" to someone and emphasized the fact that with a 16" barrel, it's a rifle, but because it is a registered SBR, you can also use a short barrel, without mentioning the whole transfer tax thingy, and pocketed some extra $$. 

- Same thing applies to an SBS with an 18" barrel.  Now it is a tranny.

- However, once a machinegun, always a machinegun.  An M2 Carbine is always a machinegun, even though the receiver is identical to an M1 Carbine (with the exception of M2 stamping v. M1), and with M1 parts instead of M2, making it incapable of full auto fire.

Hmmmm.  Sure would make things a lot simpler if the NFA was done away with.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Slight drift - If you're not buying a complete rifle, how important are some components with respect to others?

Is an "economy" stripped lower ok if you use a quality parts kit?

Is an "economy" stripped upper ok if you use a quality bolt/carrier?

The reason I ask is, I can't buy a new AR in MA, but I have a "put together" from years ago. I used what I thought were the best parts I could buy, based on recommendations from what respected people here had built, and, what would ship to MA. Will upgrading some things make a difference or do I live with what I have?

---------------------------------

 

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

 

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Malpaso posted:

Slight drift - If you're not buying a complete rifle, how important are some components with respect to others?

Is an "economy" stripped lower ok if you use a quality parts kit?

Is an "economy" stripped upper ok if you use a quality bolt/carrier?

The reason I ask is, I can't buy a new AR in MA, but I have a "put together" from years ago. I used what I thought were the best parts I could buy, based on recommendations from what respected people here had built, and, what would ship to MA. Will upgrading some things make a difference or do I live with what I have?

What do you have? I've found most economy stripped lowers to be OK. Upper and BCG most important.

Garg 'nuair dhùisgear

It really depends how economy you are talking. Anderson is a NOGO for example.

Most of the lower end receivers don't totally suck, but I would think twice before SBRing one, and I would not be surprised if aftermarket triggers were hard to get set up right in those lowers. And that will vary between manufacture dates within the same brand of lower, because of inconsistent or non-existent QC/QA. This why you see some agencies that swear by known shitty brands... they got lucky with their batch. 

The quick check in the gunshop is to push a PMag into the magwell. It should drop free cleanly. That check can be done without installing any parts.

At the end of the day the upper you choose will make much more difference than the lower.

RyanScott posted:

Can’t make a rifle into an SBR into a pistol FEDERALLY. If you did that you’d have to file a form 20 to travel because it’s still a federal SBR though it might be a pistol by state law. I wouldn’t want to try it for sure. The law is stupid in this area.

Not to rehash everything.

I currently have SBRs and live in a free state... however, I plan on doing an AR pistol build (from a stripped lower), and filing SBR paperwork, but never attaching a stock.  My plan is to leave it as an AR Pistol indefinitely or until AR pistols are outlawed.  I may not even get it engraved right away. 

Do you see any glaring problem with this?

With all this talk about my brother in law, I have started thinking about another carbine or SBR fo myself. I have seen a couple of Saints recently and kind of like what I have seen though as good as BCM furniture is, I have a preference for MagPul stocks. and I find they have a  LEO purchase program that includes retirees!

steveg2 posted:

With all this talk about my brother in law, I have started thinking about another carbine or SBR fo myself. I have seen a couple of Saints recently and kind of like what I have seen though as good as BCM furniture is, I have a preference for MagPul stocks. and I find they have a  LEO purchase program that includes retirees!

If you like the MagPul stock look at the new Saint Victor in the green color, it has the MagPul stock with a free float tube (the one without the full length rail on top.)

I've had serious lust for one.   The float tube and green does it for me.  

There is no left or right.

There is only tyranny or freedom. 

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