Why a shotgun?

OP "What I'm really interested in finding are some different drills and techniques for improving reloads."

What I use for both carbines and shotguns is something like this-

start with pistol mags downloaded to 3-5 rounds, carbine mags just a few rounds, 12ga two rounds.

Shoot the shotgun until empty (insert carbine if that is what you are using), transition to side arm. shoot until slide-lock, speed reload, scan, holster, recover long gun, speed reload 2 shells of 'gauge or a short magazine, and you are reset for another rotation.

Having only perused the thread, I will add only to learn as many ways to reload as you can.

Im a righty:

The "workspace" reload works good for open spaces or movement, where a safe direction is up.

Muzzle down reload I use where is it unsafe to go above horizontal with the muzzle- ie our agency's ranges, both indoor and outdoor.

Shotguns are big and heavy, and I have found trying to reload while covering an area, person is a total pain unless I have something to prop the gun against. My personal opinion, at this point some tactics/comms come into play, and simply ask someone, if available, to cover your object while you take 15 seconds to top off.

Flipping the gun on its back and loading that way has its place. The thing to bear in mind, is your left hand is controlling an out-of-play shotgun (you have lost fire control). Should the necessity arise, drop the shell youre holding, grab your gat and fix the problem.

What works for me is to load using whatever side hand the ammo is on. Mostly that works out to be my left, however, SpeedFeed stocks/stock sleeves put some ammo on the right.

 Im not "High Speed", Im "Non-Stick"

quote:
Originally posted by GES:
quote:
Originally posted by Dorsai:
...They are trying to target "evil" guns, not those target, sport and hunting guns protected by the 2nd Amendment ...


I always laugh at that concept. They either do not know about, or choose to ignore, the infamous Cumbria shootings in England. Using "only" a .22 rifle and a double barrel shotgun gun, that loon bat killed 12 and injured 11.

Honestly, I think they ignore it, figuring it'll keep the "sporting" gun owners happy and knowing that they'll be a small niche if/when if comes time to ban those too--"for the children."

Link to wiki write up on the Cumbria shootings, if anyone is curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

quote:
Originally posted by Consigliere:
Currently owned pistols with these features must be registered as assault weapons. So, my HK Mk23 and...get ready....my Beretta 21A AWC edition are assault weapons. A Beretta .22!!!!! Fucking kill me.


Blah, blah, blah...

All I hear are reasons to polish the ol' resume and move to a free state. Same advice I give to people that live in the Peoples' Republik of Kalifornia.

As for me, because I have so little 5.56 and it appears that (in WA at least) people aren't hoarding 00B, I've gotten my 870 out and have been practicing reloads while watching TV. I need to get some of those "dummy 12ga rounds" that are popular with CASS shooters. But they're spendy! Anyone here make 12ga dummy loads using their reloading setup and have a few they could sell?

I've also recently mod'd my 870 a bit. It's got a police take-off wood stock set and a rifle sighted 18" barrel. So, it's my "deer gun," I suppose it could be used as a HD gun too.


GES

Don't know if you found the practice shells you were looking for yet or not. I found these at Brownells a couple weeks ago and they seem to be similar to what you describe and have worked good for me so far.

Brownells 12ga Dummy Shells

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

 

Thomas Jefferson

While a greatly prefer ARs, if the choice was between a neutered AR and a shotgun then I would go with the gauge.

If both only have seven rounds then the shotgun has way more bang per round fired than an AR. ARs poke really decent holes with good ammo, at close range a shotgun removes meat from bone and is capable of traumatic amputations of limbs.

That in the places where ARs are seen as really, really bad you are also far more likely to run into issues with using an EBR for home defense if the local DA also doesn't like such guns. On the other hand people hear "shotgun" and think nothing of it,

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если не я тогда, кто?

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Originally Posted by R.Moran:

 

 Bumped for The Lion.

And others, thanks. Just happens that I picked up an 870P trade in. This thread opened my eyes as to how much I need to learn. The extent of my shotgunning has been CAS, which is as good as dry firing in the house for tactical education, and the complete and utter frustration of trap (what do you mean you don't aim?).

 

I need to find a class in New England.

---------------------------------

It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

The .45-70 is the only government I trust

"I was raised in a place called America...
It's gone now, I wish you could've seen it"
- a WWII vet

 

Joined: 1/30/06 3:34 PM - Location:MA

Without any restrictions from management is there any reason not to run slugs exclusively?

"Run by duffers.....they tend to amplify mistakes." " It a very cool, very fun, very awesome piece of shit."

 

Location Cape Town, South Africa

 

Bumping this very useful thread hoping mods will move it to the new subforum.

 

In the years since it was posted I went LE, carried a stock 870 on quite a few calls and now carry a LL-only 870 and personal AR combo. For my locale the AR is the best option, wide open spaces both in and out of buildings are common, and multiple bad guy calls are fairly normal. There are still occasions a 12ga with slugs and buck would be better, but for now this is not an option.

 

I keep an 870 with Choate folder for travel as it will be around cars, i wouldn't turn down the 870 for a fight, but I've spent 20 years with ARs in some form, I'm better with them. 

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

I spent 23 years in L.A county born and raised. I turned 18 in 1995. First two long guns were a No.4 Mk1 and a Mossberg 500 precisely because of politics.  I escaped to America and promptly bought an AK and a lot of other stuff in 2001. I feel your pain. If i was still in L.A, an 870, M1 or M1A, a Ruger Gunsite Scout and probably a levergun would be in my options.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

My long guns are: Sks, mini-14 and mossy 590

my bro in law just got a mossberg Mavrick for about 250...we ran slugs, Buck and bird on that gun with no problems...

shotguns are very affordable and versatile however, you got to love em to shoot em. 

Shotgun is a love/hate long gun

With the advent of factory major (non Turkish) maker  box mag fed shotguns, assuming they prove reliable, does this change anyone's opinions? Having a 2 sec reload on a pump may be a bit more palatable in CA, etc for indoor festivities.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

ganyana posted:
If you train and aare current then a rifle always wins...if it is something you drag out once a year and practice with...it is a whole world easier to hit bad folk in low light with a shotgun rather than a rifle.

In Africa, years of 'ordinary farmers' miners and enginers etc having to fight off superior numbers of communists armed with AK47's have demonstated the shotguns superiority. It is a defensive tool..very good at supressing fire, especially when used with appropriate sized shot. (in Africa 0 Buck -SSG- was found to offer the best combination of hit probability and wounding effect. - I suspect the newer 3" no 4 buck would be better. AAA is too small).

I don't belive it is a professional soldiers weapon. I can snap shoot and reliably hit a target at 50m without using the sights on my rifle and certainly going to do better at night with my FAL...becuase I am very used to it...it put 1-2000 rounds a week through FAL's over seveal years in training...the muscle memory is there.

For the average citizen though...the shotgun has much to recomend it!

 

ganyana posted:
If you train and aare current then a rifle always wins...if it is something you drag out once a year and practice with...it is a whole world easier to hit bad folk in low light with a shotgun rather than a rifle.

In Africa, years of 'ordinary farmers' miners and enginers etc having to fight off superior numbers of communists armed with AK47's have demonstated the shotguns superiority. It is a defensive tool..very good at supressing fire, especially when used with appropriate sized shot. (in Africa 0 Buck -SSG- was found to offer the best combination of hit probability and wounding effect. - I suspect the newer 3" no 4 buck would be better. AAA is too small).

I don't belive it is a professional soldiers weapon. I can snap shoot and reliably hit a target at 50m without using the sights on my rifle and certainly going to do better at night with my FAL...becuase I am very used to it...it put 1-2000 rounds a week through FAL's over seveal years in training...the muscle memory is there.

For the average citizen though...the shotgun has much to recomend it!

Dude, try to refrain from posting absolutes. Nothing always wins. If you're a "professional soldier" a goddamn broomstick might end up being your weapon. You think everyone rolls out with kitted out Roland specials and PEQs and shit? I've used a sturdy piece of bark to dig a hole to shit in before and I'll be damned if I wouldn't have preferred a fancy shovel, or  a mini ex, but you work with what you've got, make the most of it, don't complain, then bitch to no end when you come back alive.

 

At least that's what I read in Tom Clancy books while I was taking a shit.

ARin posted:
but there are some other .mil/le guys on this thread that are telling us the opposite. So who to believe?

i really do suppose it has a LOT to do with personality....and preference. i suppose you could take any swat team, do a survey and a certain percentage would prefer 12g, some would want an mp5, some would want an AR....yet all of them are planning to go to the same gunfight.

i think ill just sit back and read this thread a little more....

post a little less.

always seems the prudent thing to do around here. Wink

Personality? It mostly has to do with what is available. You think you're going to have time to pick out an outfit if the SHTF? Nope. Grab what the fuck is available, shit it might be a house plant. I'd rather hit an asshole with a potted plant than my hand.

green_vaccine posted:
ARin posted:
but there are some other .mil/le guys on this thread that are telling us the opposite. So who to believe?

i really do suppose it has a LOT to do with personality....and preference. i suppose you could take any swat team, do a survey and a certain percentage would prefer 12g, some would want an mp5, some would want an AR....yet all of them are planning to go to the same gunfight.

i think ill just sit back and read this thread a little more....

post a little less.

always seems the prudent thing to do around here. Wink

Personality? It mostly has to do with what is available. You think you're going to have time to pick out an outfit if the SHTF? Nope. Grab what the fuck is available, shit it might be a house plant. I'd rather hit an asshole with a potted plant than my hand.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that point, but if you DO have a choice to pick out what is available (meaning: in your house accessible and loaded), that is the discussion. 

I wouldn't keep my lever gun or bird hunting shotgun in a state of readiness while leaving my AR's and shorter/more capacity shotgun in the safe... I think that is the question not "do you have a fighting mindset to win".

 

 

 

 

Joined:      14 January 2010                Location:  MAINE

Green Vaccine,

While I applaud the fact that instead of starting a new thread you stayed on topic with an existing one, I have to ask why?  I hope you read the dates of these posts, because when you argue with ganyana, his post was almost 8 years ago and he hasn't posted in over 5 years.  Hence, your argument is akin to sitting in a darkened room and arguing with the dead.  Hell, I don't remember who I was married to 8 years ago!

And ARin.  He has also been away for 5 years.  I remember I WASN'T married 5 years ago and it was pretty sweet.

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

ARin is busy working on teeth. I miss ganyana's input, but i too, was wondering about the necro..

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

Dorsai posted:

Green Vaccine,

While I applaud the fact that instead of starting a new thread you stayed on topic with an existing thread, I have to ask why?  I hope you read the dates of these posts, because when you argue with ganyana, his post was almost 8 years ago and he hasn't posted in over 5 years.  Hence, your argument is akin to sitting in a darkened room and arguing with the dead.  Hell, I don't remember who I was married to 8 years ago!

And ARin.  He has also been away for 5 years.  I remember I WASN'T married 5 years ago and it was pretty sweet.

Fair enough sir. To be honest I hopped on here to ask if anyone knew where to obtain the wood furniture for an 870 Tac 14 in the shotgun/ sub gun forum. I may or may not have allegedly had a couple of libations prior to posting a response to his post and didn't pay much attention to the dates. I stand by my reply though.

Damn.

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So low speed, i'm in Park.

"I could stand to hear a little more.." Jayne

Training is brief. Death is forever. PAY ATTENTION.

Joined: 6/14/03 1:02 PM

So then...you are saying he was actually in fact arguing with the dead? 

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