I have been looking at these 2-3/4” slugs as a viable alternative to 0 or 00 buckshot for HD. I have one of the new Gen. 3 930 SPX’s. These slugs only penetrate 13” in ballistic gel, and fragment into 3 sections. The Remington 1oz “Sluggers” perform the same. Has any IWBA/FBI testing been done on these particular slugs?
Have you seen these 'tests'/reviews?
On another forum Doc Roberts had this to say (in 2012):
Hmmmm.....Looks like a giant Triton Quick Shok wound profile.
Since slugs are typically selected with the goal of successfully penetrating something--often times intermediate barriers or large dangerous animals, Foster type slugs are NOT generally the best option for LE use. Note that while traditional Foster type slugs can be very effective against unobstructed soft targets--much like an old large caliber soft lead musket ball, they tend to break apart and often fail to offer adequate penetration against intermediate barriers and tougher animals--kind of the exact opposite of what we desire a slug to accomplish. A pre-fragmented slug like the PDX-1 that breaks up more than a typical Foster slug is even more problematic. If a single projectile option that breaks apart on target is desired, the bonded buckshot loads seem to be a more appealing option...
In the same thread another member posted:
We tested this slug when we had Winchester out for a ballistics workshop last November.
It's a very interesting concept and we may attempt to buy and issue it next year.
It's a 1oz slug that appears like a foster type slug with three serrations on the outside that are visible. There are three serrations on the inside of the slug also.
When fired at a hard object, it acts like a foster type slug. Our facility uses 1/2" plywood mounted on 4"x4" posts as moveable barricades. One was placed in front of a clean target and a round was fired. Bored a single hole through the wood and the target. Same as the Reduced Recoil Winchester foster type slug currently kept on hand by the agency.
When fired into a bare gel block, things got interesting. The slug split into three pieces. The pieces came to a final rest in the shape of a triangle, with each leg of the triangle being about 6". The penetration of all pieces was 17".
The test gun was a Remington 870 18" cly bore...........
But the biggest concern was what I witnessed when the round was shot into bare gel. The round struck the gel block right where the officer aimed. The projectile broke into three pieces that came to final rest in the shape of a triangle, with each leg of the triangle being about 6" long. The point of aim was almost in the middle of this triangle.
If you can picture this gel shot, picture the point of aim being the heart. It would be possible for the three pieces to actually miss the intended target by bracketing it on all sides.
Now picture 00 buck with a flight controlled wad, or the new #1 buck loading with the flight controlled wad. Those 15 pellets would tear up the heart that the three chunks bracked.
Winchester was pitching this pre-fragmented slug as replacing both slugs and buckshot.
I'm not sold on the concept. To me, slugs and buckshot are two different rounds for two different tasks.
I am sold on the flight controlled buckshot loading as being able to increase the effective range of a cylinder bore 870. Twenty five yards with a rack grade 18" cylinder bore gun is now realistic.
Hope this is of some use.
Yes, thank you! I also read where the segmented slug could miss vitals upon breaking up, actually going around, say the heart. I’m posting a link to the videos that got me thinking about soft lead Foster slugs. I’m only considering them for close range (40’)home defense as penetration looks limited in bare gel. I know these videos are not scientific or using 4 layers of denim but he claims to have recalibrated the gel to FBI specs.
I forgot to add:
I am also extremely impressed with the Federal 0 and 00 with the flight control wad! Out of my 930 SPX the 00 threw a tight hand size pattern at 25yrds!
If i had to run the gauge as a primary indoors it would be Flite Control.
GDONLEY308: You mentioned IWBA in your initial post.
Based on what I read from them years ago I am a fan of the LE1321B (Federal Flitecontrol 1B).
Currently, I'm using Brenneke THD Slugs in both 12 and 20 in the 'HD' shotguns because I am more concerned about the flite control wad hitting someone near the bad guy.
Slugs will ruin a perp’s day for sure!
So will buck. I've seen birdshot at contact distance literally blow brains out. Past that...mixed. I stick with buck for indoors/close stuff outdoors, then slugs.
I think if you have a "canned" scenario on how you're going to use your smoke pole, it's a good idea to have X shot in it. Problem is when you get into general use. I don't live within 50 yards of my neighbors on any side. Most quite a bit further. What if I have to step outside for whatever reason (neighbor gets drunk and tries to murder wife during a domestic, etc - use your imagination). Now that buckshot becomes a liability.
I think slugs are best for general use in shotguns - and yes that comes from a cop experience and YMMV. I can't discount the possibility of having to take longer shots when called upon (like approaching a house instead of once inside). If you're never going to take your shotgun outside your bedroom or house - buck is probably the best. But from 100 yards to 1 foot, slugs work pretty well. Yeah, I get they don't pentrate body armor, but everything is a compromise.
BTW - I DON'T keep any long guns handy at home for self defense pursposes. I keep them all in the safe. I keep a G19 handy. I know it's not ideal for every fight, but it's mainly about security and safety in my house. I know a lot more cops who have been burglarized that I know cops who have killed instruders in their home (by about a dozen to none).
I think if I were to keep a shotgun handy, I'd load it like I tell guys at work to load theirs. Full of slugs with buck on the side saddle for those times it's needed. I also have to admit that most of my shotgun shooting lately has been done with the versamax tactical. I'm really starting to like auto-loader shotguns.
Wait - that's a lie. I do keep a .410 unloaded behind the closet door. It's for armadillos who might attack my wife's flower garden. So I wouldn't say it's in the self defense arsenal. But it has been used against more live animals at my house than anything else.