Thanks for clarifying Dorsai

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

+1. I didn't know there were different ways to get ATF-approved semi-auto. So... one more question: 

If by some chance I got one of the 9mm in the Zenith/MKE config, does that mean I cannot trade triggerpacks, gripframes, or both between that and my extant HK-style shelf small frame guns?

Cause that would be annoying, the system-of-guns thing doesn't work so smoothly. More annoying if I had a spare $60,000 and an auto-sear as now I can't leave it in a dedicated select-fire trigger pack, and swap guns but there's not much chance of that 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

The MKE/POF's use standard MP5 lowers, the older civilian semi only guns had to use special "clipped and pinned" lowers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MHnpHBkeJw

Be aware my Z5RS required a very small mod to work with a genuine HK SF lower, see my original post for details.

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

shoobe01 posted:
If by some chance I got one of the 9mm in the Zenith/MKE config, does that mean I cannot trade triggerpacks, gripframes, or both between that and my extant HK-style shelf small frame guns?

Cause that would be annoying, the system-of-guns thing doesn't work so smoothly. More annoying if I had a spare $60,000 and an auto-sear as now I can't leave it in a dedicated select-fire trigger pack, and swap guns but there's not much chance of that 

Pretty much. The auto sear could transfer around but the Zenith/MKE/POF use a standard lower trigger pack (with modifications as kaltesherz mentioned). Clipped/pinned packs won't play well, although I have seen one mounted on a Zenith (but it was loose).

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

Longeye posted:

You guys are throwing around $60,000 sear packs like it is cool.

Doesn't it make more sense to go C7 SOT and just pick up a dealer sample on a agency demo letter? The annual FFL/SOT membership fee is way cheaper than paying $60K....


Who's got a sear pack? 

My SOT buddy's got a bunch, IIRC he can make them stupid cheap- something like $12.

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

Are Fleming sear packs really bringing $60k?

____________________

 "The only legacy a cop can hope for is being mentioned by a couple of guys standing around a barbeque talking about their last caper...hopefully, you're included in their conversation." Dewey, Southland

 

Embracing the Pink Bunny

I thought I saw them that high, but silly me, only peaking (as of a year ago) closer to $40,000.

I try not to get too Old Man Simpson about other products, especially guns, getting expensive due to inflation but I will never own an MG. Even when I have a very good year, their prices are rising faster than my income. MGs I'd want are actually more out of reach to me at 48 years old than they were when I was 16 (1986). 

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. – Theodore Roosevelt

 

Joined: 19NOV2004   Location: Mission, Kansas

Still a decent chunk of change....for a part that originally cost about $7.

The joys of supply and demand I suppose.

____________________

 "The only legacy a cop can hope for is being mentioned by a couple of guys standing around a barbeque talking about their last caper...hopefully, you're included in their conversation." Dewey, Southland

 

Embracing the Pink Bunny

 And I kick myself again...I'm passing a table at the Yonkers Raceway Gun Show in 1995 (???) (yeah a long ass time ago) and there is a lightly used HK-94 with 4 mags $1,200.  I told the guy manning the table maybe next time, never saw him or the HK again...

CAUTION thread drift:

If you want to feel better about yourself....When I was 21 I bought a HK93 (5.56?) used at a local gun shop....had claw mount w/ scope, six 30rnd mags, one 40 rnd mag & a bayonet. NJ sheeple elected Florio & made all assault weapons illegal..... I panicked, did I mention I was young & not from a gunner family......sooooo I brought my beloved HK back to the same local gun store & the owner who sold me said HK "did me a favor" & took everything back for free.

THAT scared me worse then my divorce..... Fuck me NJ 

Now back to our regular scheduled program.

I am a Deacon from the Church of the Painful Truth 

...it's not the arrow, it's the Indian 

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

.45ACP, because sometimes short, fat and slow will do the job.

"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here." Captain John Parker, to his Minute Men on Lexington Green, April 19, 1775.

I did speak to the Zenith rep at SHOT. Supposedly they have "millions of dollars of inventory" coming in the next few months. Enough to fill all back orders. They also are releasing a Z3, aka a G3 clone with paddle mag release and grenade launching rings, something no one has been able to do yet. MSRP of around $2,000, which I think is dangerously close to the actual HK91 market. 

A different rep told me that they are working on a collaboration with Magpul for magazines with a last round bolt hold open. The thought is to try and bring the bolt release found on the MP5-40 and MP5-10 to the 9mm series. Could be a smart move to bring the MP5 into the 21st century where it seems last round bolt hold open is non negotiable for some people. This would also take some business from PTR, who seems to really be cutting into their market.

 

 

I've heard Zenith is finally going to be importing a lot more roller locked magic in soon- clearly 2018 wasn't a good year for them. But I'm a little confused why they're bringing in the Z3 when you can get a PTR for half price and a real HK for a couple bills more.

They should just focus on MP5/HK33 types and bathe in hookers and blow...

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

Not sure what's going on with Zenith TBH, but I think our economic dustup with Turkey didn't win them any favors... At least they're coming in, POF seems like it's on the "neva guna be seen again!!!" list, so now you're down to only one factory-correct MP5 (Zenith).

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."

I was stressing over my dream of getting an MP5 clone, preferably as an MP5K-PDW SBR.  They are expensive, and can be a wait to get.  I recently got a CZ Scorpion pistol, at half the price.   I'm done with the MP5 thing, now.  That CZ is a really fun piece.  I will SBR it, soon.  And, 30 round mags from Midway are $20.  Just something to think about.

- Gene

____ "Fight like you're the third monkey trying to get on Noah's Ark...".

____ "If you can't do something smart, do something right." - Jayne Cobb

____ " Pull your huggies up, shut the fuck up." - gruntpain

 

Joined: 4/28/08   Location:  Seattle

 

DirtySanchez posted:

I was stressing over my dream of getting an MP5 clone, preferably as an MP5K-PDW SBR.  They are expensive, and can be a wait to get.  I recently got a CZ Scorpion pistol, at half the price.   I'm done with the MP5 thing, now.  That CZ is a really fun piece.  I will SBR it, soon.  And, 30 round mags from Midway are $20.  Just something to think about.

Oh I can fix that "I'm done with the MP5 thing", just let me know when you want to hit the range with mine. I have 2 buddies with Scorps and they won't even bring them out if I'm bringing my MP5...

CZ Scorpion is by far the most economical / practical way to get into the 9mm Pseudo SMG game. Easy to find, cheap, cheap mags, and even lots of aftermarket accessories. But it's straight blowback, so not nearly as controllable or smooth. Trust me I get it, I almost went that route after crunching the numbers... but I realized after getting one I'd STILL want an MP5, so I punched my bank account in the throat and said "fuck it".  

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

GoingExplosive posted:

I did speak to the Zenith rep at SHOT. Supposedly they have "millions of dollars of inventory" coming in the next few months. Enough to fill all back orders. 

 

 

We shall see.  I'm within days of hitting the 1 YEAR mark waiting for my order.  Fuck my life.

This is all Kaltesherz's fault.  

 

--Dave

 

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally."

kaltesherz posted:
DirtySanchez posted:

I was stressing over my dream of getting an MP5 clone, preferably as an MP5K-PDW SBR.  They are expensive, and can be a wait to get.  I recently got a CZ Scorpion pistol, at half the price.   I'm done with the MP5 thing, now.  That CZ is a really fun piece.  I will SBR it, soon.  And, 30 round mags from Midway are $20.  Just something to think about.

Oh I can fix that "I'm done with the MP5 thing", just let me know when you want to hit the range with mine. I have 2 buddies with Scorps and they won't even bring them out if I'm bringing my MP5...

CZ Scorpion is by far the most economical / practical way to get into the 9mm Pseudo SMG game. Easy to find, cheap, cheap mags, and even lots of aftermarket accessories. But it's straight blowback, so not nearly as controllable or smooth. Trust me I get it, I almost went that route after crunching the numbers... but I realized after getting one I'd STILL want an MP5, so I punched my bank account in the throat and said "fuck it".  

Comparing the MP5 and the CZ Scorpion is like comparing apples and oranges.  They are both fruit, they both taste great, you can do a lot with either one, including some stuff which doesn't work well with the other.    I enjoy shooting my Zenith.  I will enjoy it even more with the Magpul upgrades.  Part of the pleasure is emotional.  You pick it up and images of the SAS storming the Iranian embassy, Die Hard, etc., etc., etc. flash through your brain.  It works well, but it isn't perfect.  The Sig MPX has a lot of ergonomic improvements such as the selector, mag release, charging handle, etc.  But it's heavy, I hate the cheese grater metal forearm and the buttstock.   

I thought about getting a Scorpion and decided not to.  Then.  The free market has addressed things I didn't like and I'll probably get one of the carbines this year.  I like the carbine forearm much more than the pistol version.  I handled the modified Magpul version at SHOT and it is SWEET.  Zhukov stock and an adapter is a GREAT combination.  A grip replacement makes a big difference in the feel (and looks).  There are several aftermarket replacements for the right side safety lever so it doesn't dig into your trigger finger.  Rob Ski has been running the snot out of one and it has been reliable, accurate and durable.  So I've got my Zenith SBR (for fun) and I'll almost certainly get the Scorpion too.  I had thought about the Ruger PCC, but for me, it's only plus over the tricked out Scorpion is that it's half the cost.  Since these are mainly fun guns, I'll spend a little more and get more fun out of it.

https://assets.shootingillustrated.com/media/1877870/magpul-cz-usa-scorpion-furniture.jpg?preset=article

-------------------------

Mark

Swear allegiance to the flag Whatever flag they offer

Never hint at what you really feel

Teach the children quietly For some day sons and daughters

Will rise up and fight while we stood still

 

Joined:  2/24/2003                          Location:  Nevada, USA

Don't get me wrong.  I still drool over MP5s.  We used MP5K-PDWs on my final deployment, and that is a wonderful system.  

- Gene

____ "Fight like you're the third monkey trying to get on Noah's Ark...".

____ "If you can't do something smart, do something right." - Jayne Cobb

____ " Pull your huggies up, shut the fuck up." - gruntpain

 

Joined: 4/28/08   Location:  Seattle

 

I'm almost at the point where I consider the Zenith vaporware.  I'd love a well made, reasonably priced MP5 clone.  Until Zenith puts more units on the market, their price is within a couple hundred of the H&K SP5K.

"Hold my beer and watch this"

MP-5 Operators Manual (Draft) attached as a PDF (5.04 MB) for your view pleasure, 117 pages.

MP5 Operators Manual

________________________

"It's paranoia until something happens, then it is preparedness"

"It is not whether you're paranoid, it whether you're paranoid enough"

"When did you get so paranoid?" …When they started plotting against me.

Attachments

Photos (1)
Files (1)

Now I don't feel so bad for giving you roller locked blue balls for the last year...

March 12, 2019

GUNS ARRIVE; ZENITH BEGINS FULFILLING BACK ORDERS

Afton, VA: Zenith Firearms opened its doors late Monday night to welcome its first large shipment of MKE guns in more than a year. The quantity received equips Zenith to satisfy nearly half of its current back orders. A similar shipment next quarter will satisfy remaining back orders for model Z-5RS and enable limited new sales activity.

Effective March 18, Zenith will begin accepting distributor, dealer, and consumer-direct preorders for all configurations of its Z-5RS.

A recently negotiated contract between Zenith and MKE stipulates 2019 production and delivery of models Z-3 and Z-33, in addition to third- and fourth-quarter deliveries of model Z-5P in quantities that exceed Zenith’s backlog.

We appreciate MKE’s diligence, despite a difficult last year in Turkey, to reestablish production for the U.S. market as a top priority, and to secure our ability to reliably and consistently respond to the demands of our customers going forward.

For industry/media inquiries, please contact Andy Eckert, 434-238-2550, andy@zenithfirearms.com. For sales inquiries, please contact Ben Bergamini, 919-368-3940, ben@zenithfirearms.com.

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

Linz posted:
mog posted:

MP-5 Operators Manual (Draft) attached as a PDF (5.04 MB) for your view pleasure, 117 pages.

 

More?

Sure. For all of you guys running Vickers Machineguns, Model of 1915  (attached 4.9 MB PDF)

Or for the High Speed, Low Drag Operator who's Lewis 'Automatic Machine Rifle' has some hiccups  (attached 8.7 MB PDF)

VickersLewis

________________________

"It's paranoia until something happens, then it is preparedness"

"It is not whether you're paranoid, it whether you're paranoid enough"

"When did you get so paranoid?" …When they started plotting against me.

Attachments

mog posted:
Linz posted:
mog posted:

 

Sure. For all of you guys running Vickers Machineguns, Model of 1915  (attached 4.9 MB PDF)

 

Vickers

That would have been useful 4 years ago when I found a Vickers in A'stan. 

Tankersteve

In Yorktown, VA.          Joined August 2008

Gov't Civilian, after retiring from active duty in 2015. 

 

'One's own open sore never smells.'  - Haitian proverb

Not a Zenith but I will throw my two cents in on a PTR 9CT I received today. I have not shot it yet but I am less impressed with this vs the Zenith. The mag release is VERY tight and will almost certainly need a bit of Dremel love or replaced.  Factory HK mags are ok but every aftermarket mag is extremely hard to seat including the mags it came with. 

I believe the two channels the bolt rides on are about 10 thou wide at least at the rear. The same brace that fits snug on the Zenith would not fit the PTR without a bit of grinding. The stock end cap was very tight and actually cracked a small bit because of this. 

One of the first things I did was remove the mlok handguard as I find it aesthetically displeasing. I slapped on a surefire forend that fit fine on the Zenith and it is not tight at the rear on the PTR. 

The PTR does have a FA carrier.  It does not have a sling loop on the triple frame. 

I can overlook all of these "issues" if it runs fine. Hopefully this is useful to anyone who may be looking at these versus waiting on the Zenith. I will update when I have some rounds downrange. 

Zenith got a large order in to various retailers lately but they're going fast.

https://www.preppergunshop.com...mp;mc_eid=b2bd3a1a84

PRAISE THE FALLEN

SSG Kevin Roberts KIA 7-May-08         SPC Peter Courcy KIA 10-Feb-09

1Lt Nick Dewhirst KIA 20-July-08          PFC Jason Watson KIA 10-Feb-09

CPL Charles Gaffney KIA 24-Dec-08

 

Joined: 2/21/04          Location: Seattle,  WA

Welllll...  time to put in some new EForms.  : )

Kaltesherz- PM inbound.

--Dave

 

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally."

Add Reply

Post
Copyright Lightfighter Tactical Forum 2002-2019
×
×
×
×
×